Warhammer 40K's story, how is it even remotely appealing?

[Nouw]

The great thing about Warhammer 40,000 is that you can take it as seriously as you want to. Likewise, you can take it as lightly as you want to. I love reading Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series because as many have called it, it is 'Band of Brothers in WH40K.' As much as I like my serious fill of grimdarkness, I like the satires and parodies as well which I get from Youtube, /tg/ and everywhere really. Here's a light-hearted webcomic [http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/] for example.

For a world so dark and 'serious,' it has some of the most hilarious fan-made content there is. Part of the reason why the funny works is because it's a change[sub]CHAAANGE[/sub]from the usual. The humour is an incredible contrast to the serious stuff and that, is awesome.

 

[endtherapture]

40K would be cool if they told some stories that weren't utterly generic.

The good stories are really really cool, eg. Ravenor and Eisenhorn. Actual fleshed out characters in a 40k novel. Wow!

 

[Absolutionis]

People here seem to fail to get the point that the Warhammer 40k universe isn't serious. We have characters like Sly Marbo and Orks named Margret Thatcher. It has chainsaw swords, chainsaw axes, and chainsaw swords on 40-story tall walking cathedrals. It has Ciaphas Cain! The whole universe is super-extreme in the most toungue-in-cheek way.

The universe is silly without being goofy.

It's over-the-top and that's what makes it likable.

 

[tau_random_dude]

Well, I enjoy the 40K I quite like the story mainly because it is less of a 'story' as such, it's more of a universe with stories set in it, the universe is over the top, but the stories within the universe are quite good (so long as it's not written by C.S Goto or Matt ward) the Gaunt's Ghosts series is one example. I can understand why you dislike it, it's not for everyone.

 

[thiosk]

If you are set that it is lame, not much anyone can say to change your mind.

I got into warhammer with the Chiapas Cain series of novels; a fun "found history" type series involving an imperial guard commissar who inexplicably keeps saving the day by trying desperately to keep as many warm bodies between himself and the enemy as possible.

When looking at the setting, it pays to remember that it's supposed to be the ultimate tragedy;
Humanity in decline, insanity on the rise, hungry devouring aliens around every bend, and the greatest specimen humanity ever produced is reduced to a cosmic lighthouse, having failed at lifting man from the burden of theocracy, He is revered as the god he tried to end mans worship of.

Also, at various stages in I story, the emperor showed to help out.

Jesus, Elvis, and I'm pretty sure we can all agree Stephen fry are really all just te god emperor in disguise, here to help when we need it most.

 

[johnnyLupine]

Im no expert but from what I understand humanity is beset on all sides by a universe which is out to get them (probably because man has it in for everyone who isnt them but thats besides the point), At least three of these enemies could and most likely will ensure the rest of what will probably become a reletivly short life is a living nightmare. What the orks lack in the psychological mindscrew-ery and the drawn out and painful death departments they more than make up for in the one where you get beaten to death with your own arms, or more likely hacked to pieces, which I don't imagine is a very nice way to go. Tyranids are meant to be pretty nasty too but I expect it's rare that they actually understand that their arrival has just made you and every other delicious pile of meat in or neighboring the system make a mess in its trousers so im choosing to discount them.

Despite the fact the guard are almost certainly in a loose-loose situation in which they get shot if they carry on fighting and shot if they try to escape their struggle against these terrible enemies is prety dammed heroic, the space marienes are kind of cool but they're genetically enhanced bionic supermen, much of the guard are surely people like you or I and they still stand as the bulwark between their people and a gruesome end. That is why I own a handful of crudely painted guardsmen.

 

[Okulossos]

Well, the story is... well first of all it is more some sort of lore then a true story and lore can be over the top since it is told from certain perspectives.
Then you must realize that it is trying to merge Sci-Fi and Fantasy, looking at Science as some form of magical power, and this can only go well for so long. I myself am not a fan of the story, I think it is just a bit too much fantasy in the Sci-Fi and I prefer my Sci-Fi with a lot more Sci then Fi.

 

[daveman247]

snip

Fair enough, but it makes a nice change for something to have no clear good guys, just slightly - less shades of black. Probably why i like a good crime film too X)

I can't comment much on the regular Warhammer, fantasy isnt really my thing (besides a select few)

Heard good things about necromunda too. Gonna have to find out what it was sometime.

 

[Ildanach]

OP the Warhammer franchise starts out childish, because of the tabletop game and its basic setting for "huge miniture battles".
But Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell and other Black Library authors take the childish premise and just write amazing stories in a future where only War and Darkness exists.

 

[Jandau]

Admittedly this might be due to over-exposure from a friend who won't shut the hell up about it, but I really can't see the appeal of the story of Warhammer 40K. (I emphasize story because the games are pretty fun gameplay wise)

The entire setting seems like a big case of Darkness Induced Audience Apathy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApathy].

I read through some wiki pages and listened to my friends and have played enough of the games to know the basic premise and factions; and I couldn't give less of rats ass who wins. 90% of the characters are jackasses and the ones who aren't are probably dead knowing this setting, and that's not getting into how there are no actually "good" or even "meh" characters.

Hell reading the wiki alone made me feel uncomfortable, there's no hope, its overly violent and its practically childish; something an "edgy" thirteen year old would make up.

Not to mention its a tad misogynistic (Such as there being limited female soldiers that aren't part of the female only faction, the eldar or the dark eldar) and obviously caters to younger males. (Something that irks me to no end)

Can someone explain the appeal of this universe to me? Because to me it all seems over the top and plain stupid.

That's the whole point.

It's like a Sci-Fi battle royale. It's got everything, from super advance alien tech, cargo cults, xenomorphs, psychics, and so on and so forth. And it's all clashing together. You want Starship Troopers battling Super-Advanced Mecha? Imperial guard VS Tau. You want Xenomorps fighting ancient horrors from beyond the stars? Tyranids VS Chaos.

It's over the top. Everything is bigger and meaner, armor is huge and detailed, guns are big, armies are endless. The scale of everything, from ornaments to galactic army deployments is big. You want big robots? They've got the biggest robots. You want the biggest guns? They've got assault rifles that shoot grenades, the wimpiest weapon is a laser gun that shoots straight through a person, there are cannons that open rifts to the demon dimension, etc.

It is hopeless, but it's been hopeless for a while now and people still push through. This kinda flips it around - despite impossible odds, humanity perseveres. No matter how grim and dark it gets, people push on, and this makes it hopeful. Yes, the galaxy should be dead any minute now, but that's supposed to have happened dozens of times already and it's still there. People will rise to the occasion and find ways to win, even though they shouldn't be able to.

It's over the top, it's overdesigned, it's grim and dark, and yet in a way silly. It constantly flirts with absurdity, but doesn't quite cross into it. That's the charm of it, that's why people like it. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean nobody else should.

Oh, and as for the misogyny, I wouldn't know about that. Read some Ciaphas Cain - Plenty of female characters. Inquisitors, Techpriests, Imperial Guardswomen (the Colonel in charge of the protagonist's regiment is female). Eldar and Dark Eldar have full gender equality, and so do the Tau as far as I know. Necrons are genderless, as are Tyranids (though Dominatrixes are kinda female and they are the most advanced 'Nid lifeform). Space Marines are male-only, but the Sisters are female-only so that's balanced out. And Chaos doesn't give a fuck about your gender.

 

[NathLines]

Because to me it all seems over the top and plain stupid.

That covers a shit-ton of games out there. I would call every 3D Mario-game over the top and plain stupid, doesn't make them bad in any way.

I like taking a lot of gaming universes seriously. Not because they're well written, but because I simply want to. They just become a whole lot more fun that way. Of course I will praise well written works even more, but I still enjoy dumb fun.

Why do you think MLP got so big? Sure, I've heard the show is good and all, but I think most people just wanted to have fun with people and understand all the memes and jokes surrounding it. I haven't gotten into 40k that much, but going around praising the emperor or demanding skulls for the skull throne seems like a whole lot of fun.

 

[Olas]

I totally understand OPs point. I can barely tolerate the story[footnote]By story I mean setting and universe, I know there's actually many stories. I'm just using the word story to keep with the thread title[/footnote] either. It's not that there isn't a good guy, or a clear sense of morality. It's that there isn't a single person, place, or thing in this universe that's vaguely relatable or understandable to me.

In more 'toned down' stories I generally find myself sympathizing with certain characters and caring about what happens to them. With 40K I feel nothing for anyone because they're all just different hues of total insanity.

So ironically by turning everything up to 11 they've made the story less interesting for me because it all either flies over my head, or comes across as so absurd I can't take it seriously.

However, some people clearly like the crazy, over the top, escapism that the series provides so I guess more power to em.

 

[The Code]

Personally, the appeal of Warhammer 40k (for me, at least) is because it's so over the top and the size of it is just epic. The massive mile-long computers on Mars, the Worldships of the Eldar, the inescapable destruction by the Necrons, and The Warp itself are what make it all so interesting. The Tyranid, for example, are space-faring bugs from another section of space. The Necron Stargods, or C'Tan, are star devouring creatures of energy given solid form.

The Nightbringer is the reason we all fear the Reaper if you read the lore about him. There's also the Deciever, a Loki-type godling that loves to manipulate everyone and everything in his little game. The other two remaining Stargods, the Void Dragon and the Outsider, still slumber. The Dragon is rumored to be the only reason the Empirium of Man's remshackle tech even works, and the Outsider is a complete madman that sleeps in a Dyson Sphere with his army outside of the galaxy!

This is an epic setting on the scale of Transformers. That series has a civil war raging for millions of years throughout the galaxy between two factions of a machine race that can turn into other machines. Their god IS a giant robot that turns into their home planet, and his enemy is a planet-eating psychopath! This is drama on a galactic scale!

tl;dr - I think it's because it's really really big.

 

[Naeras]

The entire story was originally intended as a satire of the bible, the middle ages, communism and fascism. They just took everything either horrible or interesting about these things and mashed them together for the sake of "eh, why the hell not", and added some ironically exaggerated grimdark. The result is a story about Space Jesus making an army of superhumans before being killed by Space Judas, and his already kind-of-brutal-regime turned into a fascist state idolizing their immortal leader while having an inquisition that burns witches. Oh, and the Imperial Guard is the Red Army, more or less.

The inherent silliness of it all holds some appeal to me. I just wish they'd just run with the fact that the premise is completely bonkers, like they used to do, instead of trying to be taken seriously, like they seem to be doing now.

 

[Kikosemmek]

The first mistake you made is take it seriously. WH40K doesn't take itself seriously, and if you want to enjoy it, then try to appreciate the humor in its (mis)representations of ubiquitous fantasy tropes and ultra-violent setting.

 

[Mangod]

I totally understand OPs point. I can barely tolerate the story[footnote]By story I mean setting and universe, I know there's actually many stories. I'm just using the word story to keep with the thread title[/footnote] either. It's not that there isn't a good guy, or a clear sense of morality. It's that there isn't a single person, place, or thing in this universe that's vaguely relatable or understandable to me.

In more 'toned down' stories I generally find myself sympathizing with certain characters and caring about what happens to them. With 40K I feel nothing for anyone because they're all just different hues of total insanity.

So ironically by turning everything up to 11 they've made the story less interesting for me because it all either flies over my head, or comes across as so absurd I can't take it seriously.

However, some people clearly like the crazy, over the top, escapism that the series provides so I guess more power to em.

Gaunt's Ghost: Sharpe IN SPACE! It's a very well written story about the men and women of the Imperial Guard as they fight a campaign to liberate the Sabbat World. It's emotional, heartbreaking, inspiring and humanizing in a way that you wouldn't think WH40K capable off from just reading a wikipedia page.

Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TQWz1_uSNU&feature=BFa&list=PLF0E7EE0C4D77F744#t=05m04s

 

[verdant monkai]

Hell reading the wiki alone made me feel uncomfortable, there's no hope, its overly violent and its practically childish; something an "edgy" thirteen year old would make up.

Not to mention its a tad misogynistic (Such as there being limited female soldiers that aren't part of the female only faction, the eldar or the dark eldar) and obviously caters to younger males. (Something that irks me to no end)

Can someone explain the appeal of this universe to me? Because to me it all seems over the top and plain stupid.

I myself really like the 40k game, but similar to you I cannot bring myself to care about the lore. It is bland and uninteresting and the Humans are too zealous and fanatical to care about, the other races are similar the Aliens are all basically just out to survive with another secondary aspect of the universe they like to indulge in.
I play Orks who just like fighting things, to me these are the most likeable race because they don't sit about whining and complaining about how their world sucks (which to be fair it does), they are all having a great time and are just happy to be there.
Dark Eldar my second army I find less likeable but there models are amazing, but hey also thrive off of the nature of the universe, as they live off the pain they cause, weird but cool.

Yeah I suppose it is rather aimed towards males but so what? Not everything needs to be aimed towards both sexes. A shop that sold women's accessories, would not be frowned on for not selling man accessories. So don't whine about 40k not being geared towards women. It comes from an age when the whole everyone must be included in everything, was less prevalent. Also there is an all woman faction called the sisters of battle, so I dont see what anyone has to complain about here.

The 40k story isn't good but it does its job very well IT FITS THE GAME, and that is all it needs to do really. It is not deep and the books are not my sort of thing and to be honest I think everyone reading the Horus Heresy, should really look for something better to read. Like Gotrek and Felix I really like the Warhammer Fantasy lore it is still pretty bleak, but he humans actually have lives, do not worship a emperor god with the same zealousness as the 40k ones, and produce interesting relatable characters, like Felix Jager one of my favourite characters.