- Jun 29, 2013
Everyone is. If the #GG thread at Neogaf (strongly anti-GG) had been DDOS people there would be blaming #GG
Okay, but....he CAN'T silence you. Unless he's a moderator, then he doesn't have that control. So who cares if he's shooting his mouth off? Dude, that's TROLLING. And even if he did have that control to lock or move this thread....how can you describe those actions as harassment after the crap we've seen around this issue over the last two months?Calbeck said:"So this discussion is closed now."Exley97 said:Wait, hold on -- you reported him for harrassment? Don't you think that's a little....excessive, to put it mildly?
That's excessive. If you look back, it's also not a throwaway --- he's been pushing for the thread to be shut down from the beginning, because he personally thinks anything GG-related (except for threads started by anti-GG posters) needs to move to the megathread.
Yes, I'd call that harassment. It's a call to selectively silence discussion of events he personally doesn't want to see discussed outside a thread which is already over 220 pages.
How was I unclear? You accuse of 'SJWs' using minorities as a shield against criticism, I'm saying you're using the same shield yourself, accusing people that are against gg as supporting a racist status quo.Ultratwinkie said:How do I use myself as a shield? The entire point of a shield is for you to not take hits.
That you automatically assume 'tumblr' when someone says 'social justice' speaks volumes.And the social justice principles? Tumblr has principles? Social media, somehow, has a rule book? Really? I don't go to social media for news on equality, the NCAAP and NCLR are for that.
One of many definitions from what I've seen. In any case, what you're basically doing is putting a label on someone based on intention. Which hey, if you want to do that, I can't stop you, but I'm going to ask for evidence that their intentions are false, which is a pretty hard standard to meet.SJWs are by definition people who promise diversity but never deliver or someone who superficially uses it for fame. And they never will deliver because the constant promises benefit them. It became obvious when they refused to work with academia. The entire idea is that oppression will always be around so they should use it to their advantage.
I'm not suggesting anyone learns to live with oppression.And I reject that. Teaching people how to live with oppression is perpetuating the problem rather than ending it.
Who is 'they'? Who is being boycotted? Publishers? Devs? If you want diversity in gaming, boycotting review sites and 'games journalists' (not sure how you boycott a journalist if they aren't selling you anything) isn't going to get the job done. So is gg about diversity now? Or is that just a personal goal? I keep hearing that gg was about journalism ethics, has that changed again?I have chosen to pursue diversity by joining the boycott. It has become obvious they won't actually introduce real diversity until monetary incentives are added. It has become obvious for diversity and ethics to happen in games journalism is to hurt their pocket books. That lip service and hate won't be accepted anymore.
I'm tryin to follow you here man, but you're all over the place. Who is even the leaders of gg? What are ya'lls stated goals at this point?Thats how it relates. Because until they actually do something they are just in the way. Especially if they view established civil rights groups as evil.
And they are also in the way of ethics because social media bullshit for friends trumps rules.
And? If he's being racist, he should rightly be called out for being racist. That has zero to do with what I said though.Ultratwinkie said:And you comment on the day where a journalist was caught equating all muslims to ISIS on a stream and how there isn't racism.
Nice work. Totally great timing.
Social justice has been around a hell of a lot longer than tumblr. If tumblr is your only exposure to the social justice movement, that's pretty sad.It got famous on tumblr and its where it got its full start. On facebook the only thing you really have is the "like for water" bullshit whenever someone makes a post about Africa. With Tumblr's fame and relative seclusion it allowed these little pissing contests to fester since you can set up echo chambers pretty easily.
Out of all games journalists, how many identify as social justice advocates?The stream was the final proof that games journalism is far too preoccupied with impressing friends than actual diversity.
I agree, though I fail to see how this is some indication of a broader trend.No one for justice would equate all muslims to ISIS. No one for justice would be praising ISIS at all or comparing first world problems to third world. No one for justice would call for violence against black men for oogling white women and then have their friends retweet it.
If you want to call out individuals when you see it, by all means, do it. It should be done. I'll do it too. But if you want to present this as some problem endemic with 'games journalism', you need to show that now only is this a trend, but if you want to link it to how they do their jobs, show that racism is affecting how they do their reviews or reporting. On top of that, if you're going to make it a 'SJW' thing, you need to show they're self professed social justice advocates.No one would be questioning harassment and believing only friends. No one should be questioning race just because they disagree.
The proof has all been there that these people don't care. That their friends don't care. Its blatant.
Getting tired of breaking quotes down, so I'm just gonna lump the rest here. Look, if you personally want diversity in gaming and better ethics in journalism, more power to you. However, I can't support a movement born out of a slut shaming witch hunt, no matter what their self professed goals are. There is just too much dirty laundry attached to ya'll at this point. I'm seeing a lot of accusations tossed out here about 'being forced to donate' and 'canned and slandered', but as far as I can see, this is hearsay, so pardon me if I'm not willing to simply take you at your word that all of this is true.Gamergate has no leader. Its a loose congregation of pissed off customers for various reasons.
1. They don't like being lied to and cheated out of 60$ with fake reviews then blamed when that "evil game" sells well.
2. They don't like being insulted, and have racist comments made about them so someone can impress their friends.
3. They don't like Journalists stifling progress because of friendships with black outs. Some devs came out and said they were forced to donate through patreon. Boogie came out and said that they have been shouting him down. A black dev was canned and has been slandered for not agreeing with a white woman.
4. They are sick of the homogenous people in the games press. The lack of diversity that allowed this to happen.
5. They are disgusted with journalists using their friends to scam people out of money.
Gamergate started out as Journalistic ethics but has now expanded to racial diversity and outrage over comments made and attitudes held by games journalists weeks ago.
and boycotts do work. We have been a boycott since Adam Baldwin came along. Thats why all our links are mirror so no ad revenue.
RPS has taken a huge hit and is still nosediving. Polygon took a huge hit. Gamasutra's traffic loss is terminal at this point. Its been dropping with no sign of stopping.
Kotaku lost a sponsor who said they refuse to work with Kotaku again. Polygon lost a sponsor. Gamasutra lost a sponsor.
We are boycotting sponsors, and not visiting sites to deprive them of ad revenue. And its been working.
These journalists have been brow beating devs, and using their connections to blackball them. If we want progress and real diversity then we need these people out. Peace is out of the question since they walked out of TB's peace negotiation. Why? because they would need to get rid of Patreon donations.
An Indie market can only flourish if these people can't brow beat them into line.
As it is, the game developers have a huge diversity problem, not gamers. Games journalists have a diversity problem, not gamers. Neither can change until these journalists are gone.
hell, Blacks and Hispanics log in more game time than anyone. yet no one wants to see that.
These people have no problem running minorities out of the industry that is already hurting for diversity. They are hurting the industry with their little friendship club and stopping minorities from joining the industry.
They aren't here to help, they are here to complain and look good doing it.
Hold up, I'm a little confused. Wasn't Unilever one of the original advertising partners that helped create Polygon? And yet according to that email, Sue Garrard, who is a real person and serves as the senior vice president of communications at the company, says they've "used Polygon in the recent past" and "only used them on a one-off basis"? Well, that's entirely false. Unilever did a whole lot more than just buy ads on a one-off basis with Polygon. They were a founding sponsor of the site.Ultratwinkie said:Here are the loss of sponsors:
You might want to stop right there. Where are you even getting these definitions and notions? If you want a basic outline of what social justice is and where it's roots are, you can look at the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice]. But if you want a tl;dr, social justice is primarily concerned with correcting issues of social privilege, wealth inequality, and equality of opportunity.Ultratwinkie said:social justice wasn't coined to mean civil rights or equality. Social justice is a different word used to describe what I just said. Social justice hates academia, and hates any established civil rights group because its not based on personal feelings.
Not sure what this is an answer to, but if you're answering this:Of the ones within the scandal? A shit load. Gamasutra, polygon, RPS, Ars technica, the list goes on. These are major sites in gaming. They have pull. They should not be getting away with this.
What you're doing right now is naming websites, not journalists.Out of all games journalists, how many identify as social justice advocates?
'For peace'? Is there a war going on that I wasn't aware of?And they did pull out of the roundtable for peace:
Link one has nothing to do with games journalists brow beating devs or racism, unless you count accusations of racist undertones in this guys book. [http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457741/GamerGatethe_free_ride_is_over]And Developers and Journalists have spoken out, we have a direct link to the entire list post + other evidence:
?Today we are on a crossroad. Direction A means w, [sic] as indie developers commit ourselves to censorship and Direction B means we keep our ?artistic freedom.? I was expecting the very same people from the movie to push events in Direction B?s favor but now one of them agrees that gamers are dead, one of them whines and acts like a toddler and others keep radio silence.
?So yes, I feel sorry for indie scene. Today the indie scene is betrayed and raided by clueless people.?
Doxxing is wrong, no issue there, but this still isn't an issue of journalists being racist or blackballing anyone, unless you intend to prove it was a journalist that called his work to try and get him fired.And devs were harassed for it. There is another famous one but I can't remember the name of his vlog. They fired him too for speaking out.:
Why are you just linking a twitter feed?https://twitter.com/j_millerworks (creator of not your shield, was fired and harassed in real life)
The only relevant part is:http://techraptor.net/2014/09/12/interview-daniel-vavra/
When you look at the moral standards of some of those people. When you see them calling respected people with different opinions ?Faded crackheads, shitlords and misogynistic basement neckbeards?. When you see that one of the biggest gaming sites (Polygon) has a blacklist of people they don?t like to hear from, what would you expect? Many people also don?t go deep into the issue and they make an opinion just based on the hysteric reaction to anonymous threats, while the whole thing is about something absolutely different.
Yes I do think that some of the journalist will not like me and our game. I believe that some people may start thinking that I support people who hate women even though I absolutely do not. I may lose some friends. But I think that fighting for freedom of speech and artistic freedom is very important. And I think that some of journalists just crossed the line and somebody should say that.
Leigh Alexander, who writes for several mainstream magazines, has a PR agency at the same time while she is an editor at Gamasutra and threatens people that ?She is a megaphone that could destroy them? and says that Adam Baldwin is a ?washed up crackhead?. WTF is that? How could she still have a job? And that same person is teaching us about ethics and writing articles about childish misogynistic basement trolls? Give me a break!
A screen capture of a tweet, with the guy saying he's worried he's been blackballed. No evidence of such actually happening.http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/i+plan+to+buy+all+of+his+games+let+s+show_729ef9_5289240.png
What does this have to do with anything?Here are the loss of sponsors:
Are you going to quote the relevant bits, or do I need to slog through all of that only to come up empty handed like that goose chase you just sent me on?Here is the minutes of DIGRA 2014, who are tied to the journalists in the middle of this scandal. Hatred of academia and peer review. All paid for by taxpayers.
This is what they push. This is why I called it insane. No civil rights advocate would ever want colleges and peer review gone. Civil rights relies on academia. Feminism relies on academia.
But these people don't. Thats a clear difference.
I can push for ethical journalism and diversity in gaming without hitching my name to such a movement, thanks.And the final thing:
things may start bad but can end up to be good in the long run.
Civil Rights was born from a time of violence, but no one hates the NAACP or NCLR for it.
No one hates them for what la Raza and the Black panthers did.
The Gaming industry collapsed in the 1980s, but no one blames the modern industry for it.
If you aren't willing to make a change for the better because you didn't like how something started, then we wouldn't have the world as we have it today.
You can't dictate what happens in life, you can only roll with the punches and make the best of it.
And using this rage to end racism, and corruption is the best of it.
If you don't put in the effort, nothing will change. This won't come around again.
TYT brings up gaming topics now and again anyway. At least one of the regulars is a gamer. Or maybe hates the term but loves games.MathHamy said:There's been talking about it on The Young Turks, actually.
No, the fact that you have it literally backwards as to how language develops, how it actually works in the real world, that's what makes your beliefs backwards. Don't put words in my mouth. There's nothing postmodern about the way language has worked through recorded history. The use of words changes with the public, which is why no authority ever knocked on Shakespeare's door to have a word with him.Dante dynamite said:and just because i don;t subscribe to the postmodernist linguistics style of definition, and reject the notions of relative truths in language doesn't make my beliefs backwards
Sounds appropriate. All right then. Back to my games.xaszatm said:No one knows. All people know is that the Gamergate thread was the one most attacked. People right now are jumping to conclusions to fit their agendas. I'd give it a day or two before having any meaningful answers. Chances are anything discovered today will be just speculation backed by paranoia.Padwolf said:So can someone tell me what it was exactly? Have I had all my info taken or what? I had my facebook, steam and something else linked on my profile, does this mean it's all taken and I have to redo it all? Or was it just a simple DDOS? Since there's mixed answers on this thread.
Ahaha. Someone sure got a taste of their own medicine, didn't they?Sleekit said:you need to drastically reappraise what's actually going on.AetherWolf said:Honestly, I'm just laughing so hard right now at everyone reactions in this thread. Along with all these crybabies labeling literally anything anyone remotely against GG as "censorship" because they don't like how everyone else is just fed up with their cosmic-level temper tantrums and is just trying to put an end to their harassment campaigns that target very specific people. (You can try to correct me with "b-b-b-but we're just going after corrupt journalists! m-muh journalistic integrity! censorship! sjws!" but it's awfully apparent that GGers just want to take down anyone in the industry with more than a few hundred twitter followers that aren't actively anti-feminist.) Apparently getting called out for bad behavior is "censoring free speech" now? Okay, whatever. Go back to your super secret gaming clubhouse where you kids whine about how the big bad evul feminists are out to ruin your video games. Just keep all your screaming down, it's giving the rest of us a headache. :3c
maybe this might make you step down off your high horse and actually look around;
and ddosing a major commercial website is not anyone "getting called out for bad behaviour" rather it's a Federal crime and you can be damn sure it is being pursued as such.
In the end no one will be partying, the longer this shit goes on the more we lose. I mean for fucks sake the best case scenario is that we'll make a fool of ourselves to the media or we lose part of our media. It's clear that there won't be a happy ending here, all this shit storm is doing is obscuring shady shit in the industry, with both the Sims 4 and Destiny both failing to get anywhere near the coverage they earned with their bullshit. Hell EA could actually kill someone and they'd still get less coverage than gamergate. No matter who 'wins' gamers lose, I just wish that both sides could see that.BobDobolina said:Watching #GamerGate and 4chan race each other to the Party Van is probably the single most fitting way this whole debacle could end.
Much is lost in civil war.Notshauna said:In the end no one will be partying, the longer this shit goes on the more we lose. I mean for fucks sake the best case scenario is that we'll make a fool of ourselves to the media or we lose part of our media. It's clear that there won't be a happy ending here, all this shit storm is doing is obscuring shady shit in the industry, with both the Sims 4 and Destiny both failing to get anywhere near the coverage they earned with their bullshit. Hell EA could actually kill someone and they'd still get less coverage than gamergate. No matter who 'wins' gamers lose, I just wish that both sides could see that.BobDobolina said:Watching #GamerGate and 4chan race each other to the Party Van is probably the single most fitting way this whole debacle could end.