WGDF

[Areloch]

Snip

Add to the fact that firing a warning shot is one of the worst things you can possibly do, legally. From what I've seen and read, courts largely consider that if you are safe enough to fire a warning shot, you're safe enough to not need to kill someone afterwards.

If you pull your gun to defend yourself, the gun either goes back in the holster, or puts a bullet in the threat. Nothing else. Anything else could readily be construed as 'not being threatened' to escalating the situation or if the whole things with the kids is true, endangerment of bystanders.

As for the McDonald thing, I'm pretty sure even if she was in a Stand Your Ground jurisdiction, bladed or stabbing weapons tend to be looked at differently. At minimum, it feels like the public would see them as different, and I imagine the courts would weigh their usage differently as well.

OT: I guess we'll see where this goes, though it is kinda sad that mods aren't allowed to lock official threads if it comes to that. The last one was a mess.

 

[Therumancer]

To answer the question, YES! I have "seen" a man fight a swarm of bees. It was Groo's graduation exercise.

Of course Groo is kind of dated nowadays, so I'm not surprised I'm the first (and probably only) one to mention this.

That said, while it's not a popular viewpoint I think certain forums should be declared a "free fire" zone with the Banhammer/Suspension tool effectively disabled for all mods. Critical Miss and pretty much anything by MovieBob should fall under that. Basically if your going to see people engaging in social commentary and baiting people with certain positions, the inevitable response should not be punished. Basically if one side can make a statement, so can the other, and when it's sort of mocking in tone, well... the response isn't always going to be polite.

As a general rule I've managed to avoid getting into much trouble, because I'm polite, and specifically because of how I respond and don't let myself get baited (along with letting people do their own research, which among other things means I don't post many links, which in turn means not getting hammered if someone was to consider some of them questionable, which might happen given some of the debates I get into), but as people have pointed out we're seeing
an absolute bloodbath when some of these things touchier things go down, on both sides of the fence it seems.

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects. Either that or declare certain forums
where people routinely make political comments to be free fire zones, free of most moderation. While "funny" from a certain perspective, and while it didn't seem to "work" as much as some people thought it would, this entire strip
was transparently inflammatory especially given how the last use of this joke turned out.

That's just my opinion, not that I expect a lot of agreement. When one of the first posts is from a mod going "OMG, now I'm probably going to have to seriously start banning and policing people" that's not a good sign. For the most part this isn't an issue on The Escapist, but perhaps it will be considered.... and no it's not because I want to flame people or anything (I don't do that as a matter of course, and generally ignore, or politely respond to, those who have attacked me in the past).

 

[Therumancer]

OT: The only thing that really drew me into the last were just the shear amount of ignorance about the Zimmerman/Martin case. This comic, while referencing the last comic, is lacking that. And, since it seems that Cerebrawl has done an admirable job of educating those who have spoken out of ignorance, I see little need to retread those posts.

But, I will here remark, however...

I mean Zimmerman. The "cooky" Florida neighborhood watch that murdered someone.

I see in your profile that you French, so there may be some misunderstanding caused by the language barrier, but you really ought to look up the definition of the word "murder".

Zimmerman did not "murder" anybody. What happened was not only a homicide, but it was a justified homicide. Not illegal, not murder.

America has had a long and proud history of Standing its ground. In no way has it ever bin immoral and always justified. I agree with you full heartily.

and the law has always bin applied fairly, and has no racist undertones in any way.

There is zero reason to be upset by the stand your ground law. Its a justified law that protects innocent Americans every day. Any one who disagrees needs to be edumacated.

I would like to correct one thing about that poster. Minnesota (Where Cece McDonald's crime was committed) Has no stand your ground law. And you may want to read this http://mediatrackers.org/florida/2013/07/16/no-marissa-alexanders-conviction-was-not-a-reverse-trayvon-martin-case-in-florida, for Marissa Alexander. From what I gathered, there are five facts to the case that don't make it exactly the same as Zimmerman's case, and the fact that she lied to the police during questioning, and did the opposite of what they told her to do. Probably didn't help her at all, also the picture is kind of misleading, She didn't fire a warning shot at a wall according to that, she fired it at him, missed, while he was standing next to both his young children. Kind of different, if it is the truth.

But, ya know, sexism, racism, 'murica. Screw facts right.

I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the subject, but the big difference between these cases and the situation with Zimmerman is that Zimmerman was in the process of having his head slammed into the pavement at the time her fired. Zimmerman was also apparently a legitimate member of the neighborhood watch, which is a point a lot of people tend to forget. That doesn't make him a cop, but it does mean that people in the neighborhood basically asked him to check people out and do what he was doing. Community policing is a big deal in some places, and oftentimes gets support from the police, and being on one of those lists (depending on the area) can act as a mitigating factor in some cases, especially if the police were involving in helping organize it, and so on. These facts are why the case was thrown out almost immediately, and it took a lot of public pressure to put the guy on trial, where the results were also pretty predictable. There were witnesses that literally saw Trayvon slamming his head into the pavement.

In comparison these other cases are a matter of differing stories, where it came down to each side to present it's own case and witnesses. For example in the case of a victim being chased by "whacked out Neo Nazis" that's her side of the story, and what the media ran with, that doesn't consider what the actual investigation showed. There are a lot of questions involved in that case. When it comes to the domestic dispute, again it comes down to he said/she said as it's debatable as to whether she fired a warning shot, or missed. The defense is of course going to say her intent was to miss, the other side is going to present it as attempted murder. What's more she was just a regular citizen and could have fled (which is required in some places), as opposed to someone who is a Neighborhood watchman and pretty much approved to go around and check people out in the neighborhood/patrol the streets/sidewalks, etc. It's sort of like working security or being a bouncer, your not a cop, but if say the neighborhood approves you to do this among other things you can claim to be a "representative of the property owner" pretty much anywhere in the neighborhood since they all agreed to let you patrol, and if the police approved (and might even have trained you in some kind of community program) you to patrol the public areas (ie sidewalks and streets in front of property) you can't arrest people, but at the same time you CAN ask questions and are actually expected to approach people and check them out, or try and get
them to move on if they don't live there.

Maybe I'm forgetting something in the original WGDF.

EDIT: Oh never mind, I get why now. I'm obviously really tired to forget that.

 

[The Wooster]

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects.

Critical Miss is not an argument, it's not a debate, it's not a discussion. It's a comic strip. I don't owe you a platform. If you don't like the political leanings of the comic, you're welcome to not read it.

 

[Vegosiux]

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects.

Critical Miss is not an argument, it's not a debate, it's not a discussion. It's a comic strip. I don't owe you a platform. If you don't like the political leanings of the comic, you're welcome to not read it.

A comic doesn't have a political leaning. It can't, it doesn't have a mind of its own. Authors have political leanings, on the other hand. And while it is true you don't "owe" a platform to anyone, I'd also argue that it's poor taste to use it as a personal soapbox for yourself, just because you happen to be on the "creator" side.

Now, when I say "you", I mean it as a general pronoun, not insinuating you would do such a thing.

 

[Cerebrawl]

snip

Here's a much closer situation to the Martin/Zimmerman situation, only the skin colour is reversed, and the media and racebaiting organisations didn't care.

[link]http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/tim-mcnabb/black-man-shoots-white-teen-jury-says-self-defense-and-nobody-cares/[/link]

Or perhaps this one, with where the defensive shoot was performed by a black woman:

[link]http://www.speroforum.com/a/ABTQXCNTFM32/73128-Black-woman-stands-her-ground-kills-white-man[/link]

 

[The Wooster]

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects.

Critical Miss is not an argument, it's not a debate, it's not a discussion. It's a comic strip. I don't owe you a platform. If you don't like the political leanings of the comic, you're welcome to not read it.

A comic doesn't have a political leaning. It can't, it doesn't have a mind of its own. Authors have political leanings, on the other hand. And while it is true you don't "owe" a platform to anyone, I'd also argue that it's pure taste to use it as a personal soapbox for yourself, just because you happen to be on the "creator" side.

Now, when I say "you", I mean it as a general pronoun, not insinuating you would do such a thing.

Any creative work can have a leaning, political or otherwise. It's simply a term to describe a tendency towards a particular characteristic or point of view. It's perfectly possible for a left-leaning author to write a right-leaning book. I talked about the leaning of the comic rather than my own political leanings because it's a collaborative work, and Cory and I disagree on quite a lot.

 

[Vegosiux]

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects.

Critical Miss is not an argument, it's not a debate, it's not a discussion. It's a comic strip. I don't owe you a platform. If you don't like the political leanings of the comic, you're welcome to not read it.

A comic doesn't have a political leaning. It can't, it doesn't have a mind of its own. Authors have political leanings, on the other hand. And while it is true you don't "owe" a platform to anyone, I'd also argue that it's pure taste to use it as a personal soapbox for yourself, just because you happen to be on the "creator" side.

Now, when I say "you", I mean it as a general pronoun, not insinuating you would do such a thing.

Any creative work can have a leaning, political or otherwise. It's simply a term to describe a tendency towards a particular characteristic or point of view. It's perfectly possible for a left-leaning author to write a right-leaning book. I talked about the leaning of the comic rather than my own political leanings because it's a collaborative work, and Cory and I disagree on quite a lot.

Yeah, sure, that's true. And while you might be a tad heavy-handed sometimes, I'm not sure I've ever seen you actually be unprofessional.

Still, a controversial topic like the WGDF is going to draw controversy, and if it's announced, the best I can offer is thanks for warning us ahead of time, what I can't do is look forward to it because I'm already picturing the fallout in my mind. Ever the cynic, and all.

 

[2cool4u]

Hey Cory and Grey, low on cash again so you are resorting to clickbait? I understand you.

 

[Therumancer]

It doubtlessly won't happen, but basically I think The Escapist should probably exercise editorial control on some contributors to keep things politically neutral on pretty much all subjects.

Critical Miss is not an argument, it's not a debate, it's not a discussion. It's a comic strip. I don't owe you a platform. If you don't like the political leanings of the comic, you're welcome to not read it.

I wasn't speaking for myself specifically. As I pointed out I'm rarely if ever in actual trouble due to the way I conduct myself.

Merely pointing out that when the creators use it as a socio-political platform, and a forum is provided for discussion, it doesn't make much sense to quash dissent. I'm not saying that anyone is owed a platform so to speak, simply that when someone makes a strong and inflammatory statement and provides a forum to discuss it, it makes no sense to run around punishing everyone who responds in kind from the other side. Demanding a platform would be akin to saying that for every socio-political statement made in a feature, another feature should be stating the opposite. I'm merely saying that people should be allowed to respond in kind in the forums dedicated to discussing the issue. What's said in response in a forum in no way carries the weight of a feature itself.

Of course this is something I'm bringing up in response to a very rare situation on The Escapist. As a general rule there aren't many cases where you see a feature contributor basically baiting people, followed by bans when people take the bait. Strictly speaking the insulting tone in the WGDF jokes in "Critical Miss" could even be interpreted as an outright group attack. If someone started a message intentionally designed to spur a response that is going to result in mass chaos they wouldn't exactly be viewed as the good guys. I understand feature contributors are not message board posters, but at the same time I do not think it's right when they pretty much drop a bomb, and are pretty much put beyond equally strong counter-statements.

Now, before you say "tough, if you don't like it, leave" or whatever, understand that I'm not issueing an ultimatum or anything. I'm just expressing an opinion, and it's apparently been heard and dismissed, which is fine, it's not my site. I tend to come here for the "geek culture" aspects above and beyond anything political. To be honest for the most part I have no real issue with "Critical Miss", since most of the time it's pretty much on topic for the site and has little to do with politics (well other than say criticizing the game industry). It's not the kind of thing that's going to warrant me avoiding the feature, storming away from the site, or anything else. I merely think that when you see a forum filled with what was it, like 150 posts, full of people waiting for some massive war to break out, and a mod talking about how many people got slammed last time something like this was done, it deserves a little bit of attention as that's not either normal or positive, for this site or anywhere.

I mean it's fine, I've said my piece, and I'm not pushing hard for anything. I'm mostly just pointing out that I'm not demanding a "platform" or anything quite that outrageous. Especially seeing as I manage to say my piece without invoking much ire as it is. I don't personally need any kind of special permissions, nor would I act differently if certain forums were declared free fire zones. At the end of the day the big thing that would change is on the rare occasions like this you wouldn't see 150 "this is going to be good" messages, and mods talking about having needed to step in 50 some odd times. The basic point was simply that if The Escapist isn't going to exercise editorial control on the features, then it shouldn't be doing the same when people respond to the features within the forums which exist specifically for discussion and response.

-

Of course then again it's your feature, so of course you don't have a problem with it. What I'm talking about is more a comment directed higher up The Escapist chain, if it was ever going to be considered (where it's likely to not even be acknowleged, but I figured I'd say something, and that is why part of my response is written like it is). At the end of the day it would amount to them exercising editorial control on you (which of course your not going to like) or removing your ability to moderate your own forums, meaning you'd have to reap what you sow so to speak. I do not generally have a problem with your strip (as I pointed out), if I did I wouldn't comment so often. We've argued before on various issues, and you've made it clear you don't care for me, but that was a bit different from what I'm saying here, largely because you generally haven't gotten this kind of reaction before and it's only been a couple of times you've done what amounts to this kind of attack piece. You went a bit over the line (and good taste), and the fact that you don't see anything wrong with this kind of baiting and the level of response it's gotten in the past is sort of my point. I mean seriously 99.9% of Critical Miss is fine (and quite clever) but WGDF went a bit too far the first time (as a mod pointed out in terms of the action it required) and this right here had more people expecting a complete explosion than actually discussing your strip.... think about that. I mean ideally you'd just flat out say "okay, I sort of see your point", or just not go here again, but I have no illusions about that happening especially seeing as you don't even seem to like me.

 

[otakon17]

Oh boy, THIS again. I wonder what crazy shenanigans will happen THIS time.
(or maybe it's a bait of a bait and they don't release it, then suddenly everyone wonders "WHERE IS IT?")
Or I could be rambling, I've gone the last day without sleep or food... job interview results had me nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

 

[LG Jargon]

I've got no idea what's going on or what this comic is about, but clearly something is going to happen. Guess I'll make some popcorn, camp the thread, and try to work out why people are angry about super-sentai Jesus fighting a swarm of bees.

In case you are not joking it is a reference to a previous comic that they did.

WGDF stands for White Guy Defence Force.

The other one was... divisive to say the least.

EDIT: Double Ninja'd.

EDIT 2: I just noticed the Yellow one has a Fedora and is tipping it constantly, plus they mention Euphoric. I don't think I had a clue about those stereotypes back when it first came out.

Beta holding an MLP doll was crossing the line in my opinion.

That was my favorite part about the last comic. =P

Bronies get enough **** for going against the grain for what they love.

Not an MLP fan myself but I can empathize with them on this one.

Thank you; seriously, we get enough shit.

If Grey replaces it with a Rei Ayanami dakimakura (read: body pillow), though, I will laugh my goddamn ass off.

And from the looks of the caption on the pic, I'd say it's going to address the Elliot Rodgers misogynist monologue and shooting. Still, as so many have said before....dis gon b GOOOOOOD. :3

 

[Pinkamena]

I've got no idea what's going on or what this comic is about, but clearly something is going to happen. Guess I'll make some popcorn, camp the thread, and try to work out why people are angry about super-sentai Jesus fighting a swarm of bees.

In case you are not joking it is a reference to a previous comic that they did.

WGDF stands for White Guy Defence Force.

The other one was... divisive to say the least.

EDIT: Double Ninja'd.

EDIT 2: I just noticed the Yellow one has a Fedora and is tipping it constantly, plus they mention Euphoric. I don't think I had a clue about those stereotypes back when it first came out.

Beta holding an MLP doll was crossing the line in my opinion.

That was my favorite part about the last comic. =P

Bronies get enough **** for going against the grain for what they love.

Not an MLP fan myself but I can empathize with them on this one.

Are you kidding me. The Twilight doll was genius. You must have gotten the wrong impression of bronies, we're generally not as defensive about our interests as people think.

 

[Achelexus]

OT: The only thing that really drew me into the last were just the shear amount of ignorance about the Zimmerman/Martin case. This comic, while referencing the last comic, is lacking that. And, since it seems that Cerebrawl has done an admirable job of educating those who have spoken out of ignorance, I see little need to retread those posts.

But, I will here remark, however...

I mean Zimmerman. The "cooky" Florida neighborhood watch that murdered someone.

I see in your profile that you French, so there may be some misunderstanding caused by the language barrier, but you really ought to look up the definition of the word "murder".

Zimmerman did not "murder" anybody. What happened was not only a homicide, but it was a justified homicide. Not illegal, not murder.

America has had a long and proud history of Standing its ground. In no way has it ever bin immoral and always justified. I agree with you full heartily.

and the law has always bin applied fairly, and has no racist undertones in any way.

There is zero reason to be upset by the stand your ground law. Its a justified law that protects innocent Americans every day. Any one who disagrees needs to be edumacated.

I would like to correct one thing about that poster. Minnesota (Where Cece McDonald's crime was committed) Has no stand your ground law. And you may want to read this http://mediatrackers.org/florida/2013/07/16/no-marissa-alexanders-conviction-was-not-a-reverse-trayvon-martin-case-in-florida, for Marissa Alexander. From what I gathered, there are five facts to the case that don't make it exactly the same as Zimmerman's case, and the fact that she lied to the police during questioning, and did the opposite of what they told her to do. Probably didn't help her at all, also the picture is kind of misleading, She didn't fire a warning shot at a wall according to that, she fired it at him, missed, while he was standing next to both his young children. Kind of different, if it is the truth.

But, ya know, sexism, racism, 'murica. Screw facts right.

Sexism and racism play a big part, white people and women are very protected by the law.

 

[Erttheking]

Thank you; seriously, we get enough shit.

If Grey replaces it with a Rei Ayanami dakimakura (read: body pillow), though, I will laugh my goddamn ass off.

....Making fun of MLP fans is unacceptable, but making fun of Evangelion fans is totally ok? This is what infuriated me about the last WGDF. Everyone is ok with making jokes at other people's expense until they're the butt of the joke.

This is coming from someone who likes MLP and isn't that crazy about Evangelion.

 

[Vareoth]

Yes! Can't wait. This is going to be amusing beyond any and all boundaries.

Oh, some people took an early start it seems.

 

[tangoprime]

And very well could look like Obama's son if he had one.

You can deduce so much about somebody with so little.

The ignorant can believe in their ability to deduce all they want, doesn't mean it's in any way accurate.

You realize that I was, of course, referencing a direct quote, right?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon/2012/03/23/gIQApKPpVS_story.html

One that was relevant, as the original comic had a Zimmerman joke, and the article I posted involved a young, african american male in a hoodie being shot in Florida... you, did put that together right?

If not, let me know, next time I'll be sure in include a flow-chart for you.

You are right. All black people look the same.

...you've made my point for me, *I* don't believe that, I was making reference to the quote from the President of the United States where he was implying it, in reference to the Treyvon Martin Shooting, this whole thing in reference to the Zimmerman joke in the original comic that this one referenced. But don't let me stop you from believing people to be racist if that's your thing. Bonus points scored here for you, since I'm engaged to someone of a different ethnicity.