What do people actually want male gamers to be like?

[Pete Oddly]

What annoys me about this whole thing is that if you say something like "feminists are all cocky, student, man-haters" then people will tell you not to judge the whole group by a small minority.
But those same people have no problem with saying things like "gamers are all misogynistic, immature, man-children."

"Generalising is okay when I do it."

Did you mean for that to be a generalization?

 

[runic knight]

If people are getting offended by the sort of articles I've read, I tend to see them as either severely lacking in reading comprehension skills to properly digest what has actually being written, or that they doth protest too much.

This.

It's like seeing someone, on overhearing someone talk about changes in the American murder rate, get offended and demanding to know why they're being called a murderer.

No bob, this would be like the article saying "Americans are murderers", using the stereoype of the loudmouth gun-toting texan to justify it, and then feigning incredulity when people point out the stereotype being very ill-fitting. The way things are presented is sort of important, and when the entire article is a slanderization of a group of people by use of the grosses stereotype and who's entire purpose is to basically shit on an aspect of identity of many many people, the same people who are suppose to be their audience I might remind you, well, it is a little different then "just talking about murder rates".

You know what might be a more accurate comparison in logic, if not scale? Talking about Black American crime rates while filling the article with disparaging statements about black americans as a general rule of thumb and making plenty of references to watermellon and fried chicken. And then acting like you have here and going "well I wasn't talking about all black americans, just the ones who actually fit the stereotype, you have no right to get upset, you are just whiny".

Because that above, that is the same sort of bullshit people are decrying.

Oh and since I know you or someone else will try to derail and dismiss if I don't restate the disclaimer here, no, I am not saying gamers' stereotype is the same degree as black american's stereotype, I am saying the articles use the same lack of reasoning, and same pathetic excuse to dismiss those outraged by their tactlessness and needlessly generalizing stereotypes as the example I gave.

 

[Thorn14]

If people are getting offended by the sort of articles I've read, I tend to see them as either severely lacking in reading comprehension skills to properly digest what has actually being written, or that they doth protest too much.

This.

It's like seeing someone, on overhearing someone talk about changes in the American murder rate, get offended and demanding to know why they're being called a murderer.

No bob, this would be like the article saying "Americans are murderers", using the stereoype of the loudmouth gun-toting texan to justify it, and then feigning incredulity when people point out the stereotype being very ill-fitting. The way things are presented is sort of important, and when the entire article is a slanderization of a group of people by use of the grosses stereotype and who's entire purpose is to basically shit on an aspect of identity of many many people, the same people who are suppose to be their audience I might remind you, well, it is a little different then "just talking about murder rates".

You know what might be a more accurate comparison in logic, if not scale? Talking about Black American crime rates while filling the article with disparaging statements about black americans as a general rule of thumb and making plenty of references to watermellon and fried chicken. And then acting like you have here and going "well I wasn't talking about all black americans, just the ones who actually fit the stereotype, you have no right to get upset, you are just whiny".

Because that above, that is the same sort of bullshit people are decrying.

Oh and since I know you or someone else will try to derail and dismiss if I don't restate the disclaimer here, no, I am not saying gamers' stereotype is the same degree as black american's stereotype, I am saying the articles use the same lack of reasoning, and same pathetic excuse to dismiss those outraged by their tactlessness and needlessly generalizing stereotypes as the example I gave.

Yep. If there was an article that said "Black people are violent criminals." There would be an unholy shitstorm, and I doubt any justification of "Oh I wasn't talking about the good black people, just the minority that commits crime!"

Its especially hilarious when Leigh, who started this whole mess, has a good number of racist tweets in her history.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

Uh seriously, what the hell is this? Rules set down for you? Who told you that you can't buy certain comics or even stand near a woman? It sounds like paranoia on your part, not rules laid down by anyone else.

Yes...though the attitude is not uncommon, not the first time I've seen it expressed on this forum. Other people have seen it around and made it into a comic. With Pride and Prejudice characters: http://www.manfeels-park.com/comic/monster/

You see this sort of absurd reactionary response from all sorts of people who were comfortable with the status quo, and aren't interested that the reason people are trying to change it is because it's unfair to people who aren't them. If the status quo seems good to you, changing it is oppression.

I understand that it's unfair to people who aren't me. What I don't understand is why making it better for them means making things worse for me. I wouldn't lose anything from equality. Nothing I treasure, anyhow, I've long hated mostly enjoying something only to have it ruined by absurd fanservice. Not to mention that if the controversy finally ended, I might have a decent chance of shaking the stereotype I'm trying so hard to avoid. I am losing something from whatever the hell is happening here.

The issues are mostly your own. You see rules set for you where none exist and think people are talking about you when they aren't

 

[Kittyhawk]

I get your frustration. I'll I can say in reply though is be yourself when online and playing with others.

If you hate being kicked from games, that be better than those people, by not kicking other players, giving them a chance to prove themselves. If they fail a few times too many then eject them.

Treating all gamers the same decent way also helps, be they male, female, young or old. Its very easy to be a bastard online, but its best not to.

As for the Gamergate etc, make you point and then move on. There's no point in getting bogged down in it too much. Take what you hear online with a pinch of salt too, as some of it can be bs.

Enjoy your hobby and don't let others hijack it.

Peace.

 

[sumanoskae]

Man, don't place so much stock in what people type into a forum post; having a keyboard doesn't mean you know shit about shit. Spend some time out in the real world and you'll see that things aren't nearly as bad as the denizens of the web make them out to be.

 

[Bashfluff]

Don't bend over backwards to please people. They sure aren't going to do that for you! Is there anyone who objected to those articles on the SJW side? Was that outrage circulating through their circles? No. They didn't care. No one cared if they insulted and offended the innocent. Not a single one of them. At worst, they didn't think there were innocents. Don't listen to anyone who tries to force your to have an opinion, who wants to take away your ability to choose what media you consume for fun.

All you can to is be you. If someone tries to harass you or doxx you or anything like that, call the police. Nothing of value will be lost. Absolutely no one who engages in such vile behavior deserves anything less than a comfy cell.

 

[BarrelsOfDouche]

Just go about doing things like you always have. Nobody is forcing you to change.

Be calm, be cool, and be polite. Treat others with dignity.

Really, how often are you going to be confronted in real life about this crap? If you play it calm and continue to be pleasant...it's going to be the militant hypocrite who looks like an a**hole...not you.

The people involved with this are in a minority and most people probably know jack d*ck about this whole controversy.

I'm as white and geeky as you could possibly ever get and so far I have not been assaulted in the streets by by pissed-off women. Who is going to seem crazy when the accusations fly? The a-hole who just met you and is now making snap judgements about you, thats who.

 

[Vault101]

Other people have seen it around and made it into a comic. With Pride and Prejudice characters: http://www.manfeels-park.com/comic/monster/

Oh my God, that may be the greatest thing I've seen on the Internet this week!

And not even necessarily the ideology espoused by it. That's probably the best use of people's reactions for conveying humor as opposed to witty lines I've seen since the UK version of The Office.
.

oh lord...I wonder how many are inspired by real quotes

 

[Thaluikhain]

Other people have seen it around and made it into a comic. With Pride and Prejudice characters: http://www.manfeels-park.com/comic/monster/

Oh my God, that may be the greatest thing I've seen on the Internet this week!

And not even necessarily the ideology espoused by it. That's probably the best use of people's reactions for conveying humor as opposed to witty lines I've seen since the UK version of The Office.
.

oh lord...I wonder how many are inspired by real quotes

Apparently they are all, word for word, from actual online discussions.

 

[NoeL]

Right, I've disabled quote notifications for the time being. Not particularly noble, but after ten pages with no progress, I want to be able to check the news without having my attention drawn to another reply. Honestly, I think I have come out of this with even less understanding than I came in with.

How can you have ten pages of discussion on anything and come out none the wiser? Did you come into this trying not to learn or something? I mean, just from a casual glance I can see that pretty much everyone is giving you the same, IMO correct advice: don't be a dick, be kind and respectful, don't take grievances about behaviours that don't match yours so personally, listen->empathise->consider->react. Are you just waiting for someone to agree with you and validate your beliefs? I realise I'm sounding like a dick here but if you actually care about fixing the issue rather than bitching about it you're going to have to be less stubborn.

 

[The Lunatic]

I really don't think "Male gamers" have to do anything.

The vast majority are reasonable people. You have to realise a lot of the running and shouting of "Male Gamers are sexist" is done by, frankly, very stupid people.

These people, simply lack the capacity for a decent argument, they lack the ability to consider a wider field, instead they simply see a small group of people, and decide that "This represents all males!" and begin their frankly deluded crusader to "Bring down the patriarchy".

Despite that fact that people around the world, regardless of race and gender, elevate themselves to whatever position they desire, they seem to believe the reason they're incapable of such is due to their gender, sexual orientation, or even race.


The majority of female gamers I know, really pretty much on equal footing with male gamers.

I play a lot of MMOs, and thus "This armour is terrible" comes up a lot, but, beyond that, most seem perfectly happy.

So, frankly, whatever it is this people are spouting, none of it seems evident in my experience.

 

[WarpZone]

/rant

Seriously, man. Do whatever you want, as long as you're not hurting anybody.

If someone surprises you by telling you that something you did that you thought was harmless hurt them, then stop doing it around *that specific person.*

There you have it. All the rules you'll ever need to live your life by. Good luck.

I'm sorry I don't have a "perfect" set of rules that will keep everybody in the world happy before you even meet them, but unfortunately that's not the way social standards of acceptable behavior work. Different groups of people want and expect different things of you. The good news is people are generally pretty decent, so as long as you correct your mistakes as you become aware of them, people on both sides of the debate (pretty much ANY debate) will learn to give you the benefit of the doubt.

FYI, this is how successful alphas become successful-- they aren't just total dickbags to everybody all the time. If they were, people would shut them down. You can assert yourself and project confidence without being a total douchebag to everybody around you. The whole alpha/nice guy thing is a false dichotomy.

Gamergate threads are NOT a good place to go for life advice right now. The entire debate is polarizing and stupid, and the clickbait doesn't help either. It's a little better here on the Escapist than elsewhere, but only because it's better moderated here than elsewhere.

Oh, and as for gamergate itself, if you think women should be allowed to play video games, you think rape and murder threats are bad, and you don't want them to stop making (insert genre of video game here,) then congradulations, you're in the middle of the road. The camp that the VAST MAJORITY of the people talking about this would be in if someone hadn't lied to them and told them that they had to pick either "team sexist" or "team censorship" back at the start of this nonsense.

Do whatever you want, and don't hurt anybody. That's it. That's all.

 

[Artaneius]

Folks just want male gamers to listen and stop acting like they're the only ones entitled to games or gaming culture.

Like seriously, just listen. That's it. If someone is like "this is sexist" don't just be like "You're a feminazi!" actually listen to what they're saying and give it some thought. If someone is like "this is racist" don't just scream "Artistic integrity!" Actually listen to what they're saying and give it some thought.

And for folks to stop making death and rape threats, and to stop thinking that's "okay" or "just part of the culture." It's not okay.

There is some other stuff too, like how your rant is kinda missing the point. It'd be nice for male gamers to stop doing things like that. Acting like they're this horribly put upon group of people, when really the whole industry and culture still caters to them.

Equality does NOT mean oppression-for-males folks! It just feels like that to you because you've been so privileged. Losing those privileges is gonna hurt for a bit. You gotta role with it and remember it's for a good cause. And that others have had it worse off than you for years and they don't really appreciate it when that's finally acknowledged and some dude comes along with no idea of how good he's got it spouting shit like "well what about MY rights?"

It ain't cool man. It just ain't cool.

This is VIDEO GAMES. What rights do you have in an entertainment community besides the right to buy or not buy? They aren't required by law to include minorities in their games. If you don't like how video game businesses operate, best way to make them change is tell them why and then STOP BUYING GAMES. If profits go down enough, they will change. Problem fucking solved, but I know gamers in general are not that bright to understand basic business practices. Otherwise EA would of been dead at least a decade ago.

 

[SAMAS]

Not a right, a desire. But we DO have the right to ask for those desires to be fulfilled.

 

[Ramzal]

Not a right, a desire. But we DO have the right to ask for those desires to be fulfilled.

No. You're mistaken. You have the "ability" to ask for desires to be fulfilled. You buy their products. You hold no shares in their company, you aren't a CEO and I'm not either. You are a customer and the relation ends there. Just because you buy something doesn't mean you have the rights to control what is in it. Gamers (sorry for sounding harsh here. not my intentions but I want to be straight forward here) need to get off their high horses and realize they aren't as important to the process of making games as they think they are. Just because you go to a movie doesn't mean you get a say in what is in it. Nor because you read a book do you get to decide who lives or dies in it. The audience itself doesn't even really know what it wants. And when the audience gets what it wants, it's not happy or satisfied.

"The path to mediocrity is to follow the audience."

If someone REALLY doesn't like a game, they should sell it to Gamestop to have it sold as a used game. I hear companies really hate that policy.

 

[FlameBoyBen]

Well you see I am the head of a male dominated society that's been oppressing females since the beginning of man kind, we don't have a name for it yet.

Perhaps I should stop doing that

 

[Dragonlayer]

Well you see I am the head of a male dominated society that's been oppressing females since the beginning of man kind, we don't have a name for it yet.

Perhaps I should stop doing that

People keep complaining about this unique and total form of male oppression of females, but honestly from where I'm standing on top of a pile of repressed women, I can't see any problems.

*Patriarchal high-five*

OT

People want male gamers to be more like me: flawless and moustached. Sadly, there's only so much of me to go around, which is why we have all this awful inequality.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

Nothing about male privilege, I just wanted to say that I highly disagree with drafting. I would rather people be in the military because they want to be there, not because they are forced to be there.

I disagree on this.

Historically speaking it has proven dangerous for democratic societies to base their armed forces around a pure professional army. Army life is by default detached from societal norm due its very nature, as thus it is quite easy for professional soldiers to begin seeing the civilians as foreign to them in all regards.

Draftees always had deep seated reservations whenever they were ordered to suppress their own civilian populace when the society was in an uproar. In my eyes it's a form of safety net for democratic societies.

It is more complicated that this of course but in the end a draftee always sees himself as part of the nation he belongs to. A professional soldier on the other hand will begin to feel alienated after some time.

Personally speaking my time in the army was a real eye opener. It was the first time in my life that I associated myself with complete strangers from all walks of life. At first I felt completely alone but after a couple of days I realized that I was interacting with a miniature of society. I learned plenty of things about myself and others, gained some much needed confidence and self respect and I finally understood what it means to be socially responsible.

That makes a lot of sense. I mainly just disagree with the draft because it takes away choice. If draftees could choose where they want to be in the military I would be more open to it. I just hate things that take away choice.

I think during times of peace or during periods of low level conflict you're allowed to enlist in specific branches of the armed forces. During actual war or large scale mobilization, the government may shuffle you into specific roles as needed. Like, say, there's a shortage of fighter pilots (there's not because nowadays there are way more people than planes) or infantry. When you get your draft card, you get sent to that specific branch. But's only if they need you right the fuck now.

 

[CFriis87]

Why should an artist listen to a detractor who demands the artist make a game to their liking?

Exactly, why should they?

They are free to continue ignoring any and all people criticism their games for sexist elements.

You kinda forget that "male gamers" as a group are actually very diverse. No wonder they get a bit peeved when people assume they're all supremely privileged.

Excepting, of course, that all male gamers have, by definition, male privilege. Any and all other privileges may or may not be held by any given male gamer, they very often will have lots of legitimate complaints about depictions in games based on other factors, but they will have that privilege.

Oh yeah... we all love this male privilege we all have.
http://i.imgur.com/d1rHXlN.png

No matter that 80% of suicides are male, 95% of workplace deaths are male, 76% of homicide victims are male, 50% of domestic violence victims are male but have no shelters, 90% of unsheltered homeless are male, 50% of rape victims are male but are not counted as raped in statistics (thanks feminists http://i.imgur.com/EiRQcj1.png).
But god damn all this male privilege is AWESOME!