What does the Confederate flag represent to you?
- Thread starter Baron Von Evil Satan
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Look, I get that for a lot of southerners today the confederate flag is about independence, rebellion and regional pride. So I don't get pissed off at people that display it.
That being said, the civil war was absolutely about slavery. All that garbage about states rights and crap was the lies the rich and powerful southerners told the poor ones that would be doing the actual dying on the front. See, they might not have had a big problem with slavery, but most of them would have been willing to die for it.
Anyway, if you actually look at the history from the time period leading up the the civil war, you would notice that southern democrats had almost all of the power. One of the reasons the north was willing to fight the war at all was because the south had been making serious, largely successful, efforts to functionally force slavery onto states that had outlawed it, and the north was afraid that if the south became independent they might become even more powerful, and thus even more successful in those efforts. Slavery might not have been the only issue on which the north and south disagreed, but it was the only one they were willing to kill each other over, and thus it is the only one responsible for the civil war.
I have nothing against the south of today. My family was all too far out west already by that point to really identify with either side in that particular conflict, but the south of the civil war was the last bastion of legal slavery in the western world, and they absolutely deserved to get their asses handed to them. The north wasn't particularly good, in fact they were frequently downright horrible, but the south was absolutely and totally unequivocally wrong. That's okay though. Hitler was wrong too, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with modern Germany. As a matter of fact, it's a pretty cool place. But the south of today needs to come to terms with what they really were before I can respect their desire to wave that flag around. I don't blame individuals that don't understand or believe what it really means, but as long as they don't this discussion needs to continue, because the people pointing out how horrible it is are right until someone really changes what it means, which I don't think can be done until the people who use it admit it needs changing.
That being said, the civil war was absolutely about slavery. All that garbage about states rights and crap was the lies the rich and powerful southerners told the poor ones that would be doing the actual dying on the front. See, they might not have had a big problem with slavery, but most of them would have been willing to die for it.
Anyway, if you actually look at the history from the time period leading up the the civil war, you would notice that southern democrats had almost all of the power. One of the reasons the north was willing to fight the war at all was because the south had been making serious, largely successful, efforts to functionally force slavery onto states that had outlawed it, and the north was afraid that if the south became independent they might become even more powerful, and thus even more successful in those efforts. Slavery might not have been the only issue on which the north and south disagreed, but it was the only one they were willing to kill each other over, and thus it is the only one responsible for the civil war.
I have nothing against the south of today. My family was all too far out west already by that point to really identify with either side in that particular conflict, but the south of the civil war was the last bastion of legal slavery in the western world, and they absolutely deserved to get their asses handed to them. The north wasn't particularly good, in fact they were frequently downright horrible, but the south was absolutely and totally unequivocally wrong. That's okay though. Hitler was wrong too, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with modern Germany. As a matter of fact, it's a pretty cool place. But the south of today needs to come to terms with what they really were before I can respect their desire to wave that flag around. I don't blame individuals that don't understand or believe what it really means, but as long as they don't this discussion needs to continue, because the people pointing out how horrible it is are right until someone really changes what it means, which I don't think can be done until the people who use it admit it needs changing.
To me it makes me think of rednecks and hicks, so maybe it represents Kid Rock perfectly. I think that its meaning has certainly been re-purposed by those who use the symbol today, much like the national colors of Jamaica have been made to suggest a person who smokes marijuana. However, this is coming from a white kid from the Midwest, so others might have a differing opinion.
Actually, much of the north had problems with slavery before the civil war. They were well known as "abolitionists". Also, one black guy doesn't suddenly not make the south's reasons for slavery racist. I can also top you with the fact that there were multiple battalions that consisted of mostly black soldiers in the union army.this isnt my name said:I am not American so dont expect much, but didnt the union have no issue with slavery until they went to war with the south and used it as an excuse ?
To me it symbolises people who disagreed with their government (iirc the southerners majority votes were ignored) and fought for what they belived in, before losing and being demonized so the government could take the moral highground...
Also I wish they swapped flags, be3cuase I like the confederate flag mor4 than the US flag, it looks nicer.
Also they cant ***** about it being racist becuase I can counter it with one thing.
THIS GUY
H.K Edgerton former president of the NAACP's Asheville, North Carolina branch.
Maybe I'm just judgmental, I think of outdated ideals and stubborn ignorance. I live in Missouri so I frequently see pickup trucks with the confederate flag, and it significantly lessens how much respect I have for the individual who drive it. It's an old symbol whose history is rooted in discontentment and hatred. That's what it means to me.
To me the confederate flag represents misguidance. The confederacy was a group of people thinking they were doing something great when in reality they were doing something evil. They thought they were fighting for states rights from a corrupt government but in reality the government just disagreed with their stance on making people into property. Robert E. Lee only joined the confederates because Virginia was in the confederacy and the man actually was disgusted by it. But the leaders of the confederacy sent him to lead hundreds of men to their deaths to serves their own rather selfish needs.
Treason. Plain and simple, a group of states who would rather separate from the rest of the country than move forward with basic rights for human beings.
Care to back that up?Nurb said:
The states wanted more rights instead of giving federal government complete power. Abolishing slavery from the South wasn't even considered till 1863, 2 years after the war started.
Over half of the South were against slavery because of the amount of jobs it took from them, let alone the fact that they couldn't even afford one.
It represents a bitter unwillingness to accept reality. An idealization of an era that was anything but ideal. And an attitude towards the rest of the United States that is almost as hateful and cynical as it is hypocritical.
If you want to tie yourself to that, be my guest- it's a free country, despite what the original bearers of that banner might have willed. Just be aware of the impression you've earned.
If you want to tie yourself to that, be my guest- it's a free country, despite what the original bearers of that banner might have willed. Just be aware of the impression you've earned.
To me it represents Southern Pride (despite being from the South I don't know why you would even have Southern Pride) but most people use it as a shield for racism (in my experience) so I'm indifferent to this.
Can't fault him for assuming. As is typical of the pro-Confederacy types, you're more concerned with throwing out weak, predictable "gotcha statements", as Ms. Palin used to call them, than using the collected knowledge of history.BioHazardMan said:I live in the "north" asstard.Nurb said:>Confederate supporterBioHazardMan said:
>still clings to confederate flag
>denies reality about start of war
>denies reality that the constitution said blacks were ment to be slaves
>bitter about losing
>Says someone else holds a grudge
>MFW
I'm so sorry
Intellectual honesty is old hat. Just crib some one-liners from South Park and you're golden. Next word to shoe-horn into a sentence in place of arguments: smug. Go-go-go!
In other news: One politician doesn't represent an entire country... unless he does. Specifically, we're to judge him by the actions he totally said he would've done if he'd only had the chance to get around to them. (This is sounding familiar. Did Davis promise he'd free the blacks "with all deliberate speed", by any chance?)
I just think that there are so many other symbols that can represent Southern pride. Why choose one that packs so much history of violence, racism, and hatred. People have done some horrible things in the name of that flag, not to mention the nation that was founded under it was one designed to protect slavery. My opinions aside; there are so many better options. Why this one?ZephrC said:
To me, it represents the epitome of the old idea of limited federal control. The idea of independence of a much greater degree than we currently practice. People unfortunately remember bigotry and racism, which is reinforced by a lot of people that still hang the flag having those values, but it was something quite different. Jefferson Davis and General Lee were not horrible, evil, people. They held qualities that were quite admirable, though we only remember the latter for being such. It's also an important reminder of what happens when the federal government behaves in a way that is almost seen as abusive to its territories. The US is made up of states that have their own rights, and we need to remember that.
It's also just a cool looking flag, trumped only by the Union Jack in aesthetic appeal.
It's also just a cool looking flag, trumped only by the Union Jack in aesthetic appeal.
"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." -Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the ConfederacyTdc2182 said:
Slavery- directly- was certainly not the only issue of the civil war. But it most certainly was an important one.
It's a flag~ It goes woosh when the wind blow real fast, ehehehe~
Anyways, it's really nothing I care about. The flag has a bad history, but unless the guy's waving it for racisim and bigotry, I wouldn't look to much into it.
Anyways, it's really nothing I care about. The flag has a bad history, but unless the guy's waving it for racisim and bigotry, I wouldn't look to much into it.
I live in Canada and are as far north as possible. So I don't hear of or see the flag that much. Though I did attended school in the states for some time, and I find it represents stupidity and death after learning of the civil war.