What does the Confederate flag represent to you?

[Droppa Deuce]

Yes, the flag means independence and all that good stuff; but sadly (maybe not to you) but to a lot of people it is a symbol of race hate and white supremacy.

Sad but true.

The only that is so though is because of of the people portrayed in the spoiler picture.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, but people like that aren't doing themselves any favors by using it in their rallies.

Precisely. Sadly fools like this tarnish the original meanings of symbols. YES, they have freedom of expression; but they are hijacking a tool associated with a lot of people (i.e. Southerners) which means something completely different to the majority.

Their bigotry then forfeits the right of innocent users of the flag, like Kid Rock or Zakk Wylde etc.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

Traitors, Fools, and uneducated people.

All that sticks to my head.

 

[BonsaiK]

Apparently the NAACP is boycotting an annual fundraiser held by the Detroit Arms organization because Kid Rock is set to receive their Great Expectation Award at the dinner.

Never mind the flag bit, I'd boycott just on Kid Rock being there alone. Nothing to do with racism or lack thereof. I'm glad that the NAACP are willing to take a courageous stand against low quality nu-metal.

 

[irani_che]

losers.
the lost didnt they? Ironically the south bring up the civil war alot more than the victors

 

[TheTim]

it represents for me where my family comes from and the history of our nation

 

[Mikkaddo]

Personally I believe it to simply represent another country (regardless of the fact that it was never considered an autonomous nation). I agree with Kid when he says it represents the spirit of the south, as southerners have a reputation for being rebellious in America. Did the confederates want to keep the institution of slavery around? Yes, but because that is what their economy was based on. Southerners were no more racist than Northerners at the time, they just saw slavery (as terrible of an institution as is was) as a means to get work done faster and at quicker pace. I also have a hard time understanding why people view the Confederate flag as representing slavery and bigotry when the Civil War wasn't even fought over slavery. The Confederate states succeeded for a multitude of other reasons (part of the reason they were never very united in their cause), and Lincoln simply used the emancipation of all slaves in union controlled Confederate states as a way to ruin the southern resolve and economy.

tl;dr: Confederate flag doesn't mean slavery. Go read history before you speak.

That's exactly the point though. Ask around what people think the civil war was fought over. 9/10 people will tell you it was fought over slavery. That's all they will say. Why is that? because the winner writes the history books. Lincoln and his friends used the emacepation to ruin the economy only in part. The bigger part of the end of the war was actually cutting off their access to the aid they had recieved from other nations. Cutting them off from arms and ammo and even food. Then he had generals and soldiers BURNING TOWNS AND FIELDS to cut off their stores of food and supplies.

Yes, Lincoln approved of this. War is hell boys and girls . . . and it's always messy.

However, on the topic of the flag itself. To me it's always represented a future that could have been. Imagine if the South had not lost, and had become sovereign instead. Would Slavery have remained? possibly for a generation or so longer, it was in all honesty on it's way out as a business plan already by the time the civil war broke out as they were finding out more and more that they could make huge money on tariffs to other nations and on the selling and manufacturing of alcohol and such as well. (go look it up) would the South have needed to re join the "union"? Well, it's possible, but it's also possible the Union would have joined the Confederacy instead and the nation would have become something completely different entirely instead . . . we may never know what would have happened.

also, to people like the NAACP it represents Racism because if you haven't noticed, there's been a lot less of it since the civil rights movement. To the point now, where groups like the NAACP are having to manufacture most of the racism they "find" so they can still have a job . . .

remember, a soldier is only a soldier as long as there's a war to fight, or training to be done. If the very fact of war itself suddenly dies . . . they have no job left to do. The same is right for these civil rights groups. There's so LITTLE racism left ESPECIALLY in america, that they're almost out of a job.

 

[Liquid Ocelot]

Bigots.

 

[Rattler5150]

to me it stands for slavery, bigotry and rascism

 

[370999]

I'm irish.

To me the Cinfederate flag represents a lot of things. The most obvious is a historical political actor, the confederate states of america. Then to a lesser degree slavery, standing up to opression 9seem contradictory but meanings often are), localism over centralism, local pride, romantic but wrong, etc.

In it's more modern sense it does have a tinge of racism about it but also of pride in yur culture and history, It's how it's being used in a way.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Rednecks, the South, and the Dukes of Hazzard.

Some people take things WAY too serioiusly, I think.

 

[holographicman]

Treason.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

Hicks and rednecks. And the dukes of Hazard.
That's all, really.

Edit: I mean no offense, of course. It's just that I've only had contact with the southern states through films and TV, and that's how they're represented...

And this is what makes stereotypes ridiculous. You've only seen how Hollywood portrays the south, so you think that's how it really is. It's people like you who stare at me slack jawed when I mention I'm from Louisiana, yet I speak with hardly any accent at all. I mean, come on, does the entire world think the whole south is Deliverance? And saying an offensive comment followed by "I mean no offense" is basically the same thing as putting "but" on the end of a sentence ("I'm not racist, but...I sure hate black people" etc.). It's a cop-out for people who know they're making an offensive comment, but don't want to own up to it.

I'm sorry, I'm being a bit harsh on you. You've never been, so you couldn't know. Truth is, there are some places like that (of course, stereotypes have to come from somewhere), and I grew up in one of them. A place where you're not a man unless you drive a pickup truck jacked up 5 feet off the ground that rattles the windows when it starts up. Where camouflage and workboots are considered classy attire. Where the normal, accepted introduction to a girl you're attracted to is "Dayum! You a fine ass *****!" I lived there for 21 miserable years, and I got the hell out when I could. But that was a tiny town of less than 5,000 people. I live in New York now, and I can assure you, bigger cities like Baton Rouge or New Orleans aren't very different from NYC at all.

OT: The flag reminds me of home, I guess. Not a pleasant association, since 98% of what the youth culture back home finds cool I find revolting, but home nonetheless. Thank God my family was at least not rednecks...side note - 'redneck' is actually a term of endearment to these people. Southern pride and all that, I guess. I never got it.

Also, just to clear up a VERY common misconception(and because I'm a bit of a history nerd): The flag does not represent slavery!! The South did NOT go to war because they wanted to keep slavery legal!! The war was over the right to secede. The slavery issue was overblown to keep England out of the war. Also, the Emancipation Proclamation had no legal power. It was a document that stated that you didn't own your property anymore (not saying that people should be property, I'm just putting this as simply as I can). The people who owned slaves paid money for them, and legally owned them. It would be akin to President Obama signing a legal document that said that you had to do away with your car (once again, simplest way I can think of putting it). The English navy (the most powerful in the world, at the time) was on the verge of stepping in to help the Confederacy, and Lincoln knew that they were anti-slavery, so he came up with the whole deal to keep them out of the war. The slaves were freed after the war, one of the Union's terms during the surrender at Appomattox.

Yikes that was long-winded...

 

[zega frega omega]

The reason we believe the confederate flag represents bigotry is because most of the red-neck "true 'Mericans" are a bunch of racist xenophobes. I personally like to believe the flag is a symbol simply for southern pride (i'm not a Southerner, by the way), but I think the imbreds in the south like to simplify it into just that: slavery. Little did they know, the American Civil War was not exclusively about slavery, nor did it begin with the intent of abolishment.

 

[ryanxm]

to me it just represents a failed attempt at secession

 

[Plurralbles]

Racism, thats all the flag represents to me. Not trying to offend anyone here but the South seceded because of racism. I'm not saying you should be ashamed to be from those states or live in them, but to sport the flag? To me thats racism. You're flying the flag of the soldiers who fought and died so they could keep "ownership" of another human being. I know many Southerners try to say the Civil war was not really about racism and I don't know what your education has taught you, but slavery was the driving force behind the South Confederacy.

I dont' mind that angle entirely, but it was more the overriding question of just how much the fed controleld the states. Be it for slavery or otherwise.

and if you're going to spout drivel about how it's all about slavery entirely- as if it was all about, "is that ****** a ****** or human?" then you're not giving much thought into it.

 

[Plurralbles]

to me it just represents a failed attempt at secession

Basically this.

FFS some people are so retarded when it comes to this.

 

[meece]

I think it represents how americans tell each other their history and yet get it all wrong:

Personally I believe it to simply represent another country (regardless of the fact that it was never considered an autonomous nation). I agree with Kid when he says it represents the spirit of the south, as southerners have a reputation for being rebellious in America. Did the confederates want to keep the institution of slavery around? Yes, but because that is what their economy was based on. Southerners were no more racist than Northerners at the time, they just saw slavery (as terrible of an institution as is was) as a means to get work done faster and at quicker pace. I also have a hard time understanding why people view the Confederate flag as representing slavery and bigotry when the Civil War wasn't even fought over slavery. The Confederate states succeeded for a multitude of other reasons (part of the reason they were never very united in their cause), and Lincoln simply used the emancipation of all slaves in union controlled Confederate states as a way to ruin the southern resolve and economy.

That is exactly what it means. Most americans would not agree. America vaunted "freedom of choice". Several states joined the war simply because they didn't agree that the central goverment didn't have the right to interfere in a states affairs so much.

 

[Pimppeter2]

"In the history of the South, there's much to celebrate. And that flag is a desecration of all of it. It's a banner of hatred and separation. It's a banner of ignorance and violence and a war that pitted brother against brother, and to ask young black men and women, young Jewish men and women, Asians, Native Americans, to ask Americans to walk beneath its shadow is a humiliation of irreducible proportions. And we all know it"

Isaac Jaffe

I agree with this. Also, everyone here should watch Sports Night.

It should be noted that this is the Confederate [HEADING=2]BATTLE[/HEADING] FLAG. So its clearly directly tied to the Civil War and its defense of the peculiar institution.

 

[Tiger Sora]

Well chiefly reminds me of SC2 with The Dominion seming as they're basicly The Confederacy which they overthrew.
Than red necks and hicks.
Lastly just as a flag representing an army/nation. It's no more racist to me and such as the Union Jack or Spanish Flag could be if they're compared.

 

[timeadept]

The Union freed the slaves to destroy the economy of the Confederacy, nothing more, nothing less.

Wait a second, i need to stop you there. First of all, when the southern states were still part of the United States; Why would you do this? You're destroying your own economy right there!
Second, you can't free the slaves of another country without getting them to agree or by using force (and we all know how this ended).
So basically as a battle plan (free their slaves to starve their economy) you face the issue of having to free the slaves YOURSELF, as in, in person, as in take their land and burn and salt their fields while you're at it.
So i kinda have to disagree with your opinion that freeing the slaves was about destroying the souths economy.

There was no moral high ground to be taken by either side. Abraham Lincoln himself believed that the races should be separate and was a supporter of the idea going around at the time that all the non-whites should move to the central Americas.

However slavery never exactly sat well with him, but he did believe that the prejudices at play were too strong to overcome. So separation was the only way that both whites and blacks could live "together?". *edit* freely is probably the word i was looking for.

The economy of the southern states was, and still is, based largely on agriculture, and at the time, it wasn't automated like it is today. It was easy for the northern states to sit back and say that slavery was wrong, because they didn't have the need for large amounts of agriculture workers while also having a low population density (NOTE: I'm NOT saying slavery was a-okay, just playing devil's advocate a bit here).

I have to agree with you there.

Spoiler: -snip-

I've found it interesting to read the opinions in this thread from people who don't live in the USA. We Americans tend to be incredibly (and understandably) polarized about the Civil War. No one can say that it was about this, or that, because it meant different things to everyone who fought in it. Some may have been fighting for or against slavery. Some may have been fighting for state's rights, or for sovereignty of central government, or just because they felt like the other side was going to waltz through and kill them anyway (ahem, General Sherman...). Like any other action, the intentions behind it are what need to be evaluated. Kid Rock says he doesn't believe the Confederate flag is racist, so to him, it's not. Some other people disagree and are throwing a pointless temper tantrum.

(apparently you can't spoiler a quote?)