What does the Confederate flag represent to you?
- Thread starter Baron Von Evil Satan
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Not only was the start of the civil war about slavery (feared reversal of chattlehood policy), the confederacy was founded on racism; the idea that black people were in their rightful position to the superior white race because that's how God wanted it and needed to break away like the founding fathers intended them to do under that tyrant Lincoln. It's in their consitution and spoken about by their vice president.Irony said:
"States rights" is a smoke screen to attempt to obscure the real reason. Just accept it and move on.
"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions ? African slavery as it exists among us ? the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically...
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition."
-Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, March 21, 1861.
/Discussion on start of civil war
To be fair, that is what war is about. By the time Sherman made his march, it was basically about showing the South that the the Union was tired of pussyfooting and was going to end the war. What he did is called Total war, and its pretty much what you do when you bomb a country's plants for manufacturing. You close down anything and take their will to resist away.timeadept said:
I wouldnt say that. There's definitely subliminal racism still in America. Though its more getting about Class instead of Race.Mikkaddo said:
But you can still see it. There's still a lot of racial profiling, and the idea of interracial marrying (especially between white and black) is frowned upon. The reception the children of the marriage especially.
Thats not to say that alot of this attention the NAACP raises is groundbreaking and trend setting, but America is far from where we like to think it is. We can just justify it and say, "well... its not like they're still picking cotton, or only count as 3/5s of a person, or cant vote."
Most people who fly it do it because of racism. That being said from a historical point of view, the flag is an important symbol. It represents a time when a major political, economic, and moral issue actually tore this country apart. It is a symbol of a time when people fought against their own family members because of their beliefs (I'm not getting into the draft stuff for simplicity sake).
It is important to remember as it puts our current issues in perspective. I, for one, cannot see us going to war with each other over gay marriage or abortion. Thats not to say those issues aren't important but maybe they aren't quite as important as people (from either side mind you) would have us believe.
It is important to remember as it puts our current issues in perspective. I, for one, cannot see us going to war with each other over gay marriage or abortion. Thats not to say those issues aren't important but maybe they aren't quite as important as people (from either side mind you) would have us believe.
The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery. Thus the confederate flag didn't represent slavery. Also contrary to belief the south didn't secede because of racism or slavery, they did it because they lost all political power. Not one southern vote went towards Abraham Lincoln, yet he was still elected as leader of the country. The south didn't actually feel hate for black men and women. Like every non-white person, they weren't even seen as able to take care of themselves. This was common sentiment in both the south AND THE NORTH. Hell, the North didn't evencare about slavery. The workers in the north wanted to unionize and northern factory owners didnt want that. They thought about it, and realized that freed slaves would make an amazing working class. Because these factory owners had the power to control much of the political processes in America, they managed to elect a president they knew would want to free the slaves. Hell, most of the Northerners had never even seen a black man, they couldn't care less about them. Hell, the Ghettysburg address wasn't even about freeing slaves. It basically said that the slaves would be free if they rebelled against their owners. Tactically speaking, it gave the South two fronts to worry about. Yes, it did free them, but that was only because the North wanted to find a way to undermine the Southern military.
From Texas here. To me the flag represents my pride to be from the southern United States. The American civil war and slavery in America was a long time ago, and i couldn't really care less about the why's and why nots of the war. I'll try not to go into a whole rant here, but it pisses me off when people condemn something (be it a flag, word or what have you) because they say it means one thing, and because THEY say it means THAT, it can't possibly have any other meaning to anyone else.
Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.bl4ckh4wk64 said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988
The confederacy was founded on the subervience of blacks and that flag represented that nation. A failed nation that killed American troops who were fighting under the American flag, not that traitor flag.squintzepalladoris said:
To be proud of that flag is to be proud of one of the worst chapters in American history. If you want to be proud of the south, pick a different flag.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988
so what, are you some bleeding heart apologetic-because-you're-white person? That sickens me. "my only intolerance"... lol, I highly doubt that.creager91 said:
What pisses me off the most is that my history/government teacher- one of the best teachers we have in our town's system- had a confederate flag in his window. Some guy complained about it and he had to take it down. The civil war is one of the most important things to happen to the States and to ban pieces from it from display is stupid. Who's the more ignorant and prejudice one, the person wanting it to be taken down or someone who teaches the context with which it flew and continues to be flown?
Take a peek at the confederate vice president and the constitution that flag represents:Plurralbles said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988
"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions ? African slavery as it exists among us ? the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically...
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition."
-Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, March 21, 1861.
Another example of the NAACP idiots finding reasons to be offended and see it as a personal attack at everything.
The sky is blue! Why can't it be rainbow! The sky is racist! We demand an ass kissing and an apology!
The sky is blue! Why can't it be rainbow! The sky is racist! We demand an ass kissing and an apology!
We are talking about people who use the flag as a symbol of the Southern spirit (extending to the music style) not for racism and slavery. I do understand a lot of people who use it that way are racist, but many others use it as a symbol of togetherness etc.Nurb said:
The south didn't even secede just because slavery, it was the argument over states rights.
That's all well and good, but what's your point?Nurb said:
-The flag represents the confederacy
-The confederacy believed that their racism was Godly fact
Okay. So where does that come in then if a teacher is teaching the above with visual aids in the confederate flag?
"Take a look at what I can do!" "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME!"
In order to argue my beginning post, you should have quoted it effectively.
Sorry, I quoted the whole thing cause I didnt want to have someone think I took it out of context (which I think might still happen alot in here if this continues to get popular), but that bolded part is rather... well, wrong.Irony said:
The need for a strong central government that all the citizens wanted began well before the Civil War. Now true, the Articles of Confederation were drafted before the Constitution as we know it now, but that was because the States had just fought to be free from a central government. So in the mid-late 1780s when Daniel Shay raised his head for the rights of the soldiers who were getting the brush off from the US government (which was really the States, cause the US gov didnt have any real power to do anything about it), Shay's Rebellion started and showed the weakness of the AoC. Fear of another such uprising created the need of a strong central government, so the states gathered to revise the Articles. When they saw that that was utterly pointless, they made the constitution.
The Civil War was about the idea of territories and an inability from the "Free" North and Slave South to split each terroitory equally. Thats actually why we have a lot of the states we have now, just so that the seats in Congress could be kept even. If not, really Maine wouldnt have a purpose to exist as itself and would still be part of Massachusetts. Territories were able to draft their own "state" constitutions and some of them wanted to have more confederation, and then when the Abolition movement swept through, things just sorta fell apart under the leadership of a weak president (Buchanan). He really didnt do anything that didnt either come back to bite him (and infact was sympathetic to the South more then the North) or just turn into a big waste of time.
If you actually look at a confederation (especially THE Confederation [C.S.A.]) it was doomed anyway, cause a Confederation is extremely hard to run, maintain, and control off the global stage. Once its one it, it just completely collapses and fails. Plus the Leaders running it were doing an exceedingly poor job. Without foreign intervention, the states would have went into rebellion and it would have collapsed again.
... Sorry, I think went off and rambled abit. Point is, the idea of wanting a more powerful central government existed well before the Civil War, especially since of the first nine to sign* three were what would later be pro slavery states that had alot to lose and where major cash crop states.
*The list being (in order):
1 Delaware
2 Pennsylvania
3 New Jersey
4 Georgia
5 Connecticut
6 Massachusetts
7 Maryland
8 South Carolina
9 New Hampshire
So the CSA was founded on slavery and only slavery, and that makes the confederate flag evil and representing of slavery. Why doesn't the American flag also represent slavery? The emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the rebel southern states, it did not free slaves in the union states.Nurb said: