What does the Confederate flag represent to you?
- Thread starter Baron Von Evil Satan
- Start date
It represents a piece of my nation's history, primarily the Civil War (of course). That's about it.
It was considered a fact back then that black people weren't humans at all or some kind of lesser human being. Moral judgement requirres knowledge of all the facts. The problem is that facts CHANGE. Back then every scientists you'd ask would have told you that slavery was perfectly fine because it was in the natural order. They did not know it any better.Jedihunter4 said:
And without knowing all the facts they could not make another moral judgement. Which makes their judgement, their morals depend on the time they live in.
Confederate flag = Slavery. That's how its been portrayed here at least. It might mean something else but I'm not an American so I wouldn't know.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/2010/10/the_myth_of_the_black_confeder.htmlCannibalRobots said:
The short closing paragraphs:
"After months of heated debate, a severely watered-down version of this proposal became Confederate law in March of 1865. Gen. Richard S. Ewell assumed responsibility for implementing it, and Confederate officials and journalists confidently predicted the enlistment of thousands. But the actual results proved bitterly disappointing. A dwarf company or two of black hospital workers was attached to a unit of a local Richmond home guard just a few weeks before the war's end. The regular Confederate army apparently managed to recruit another 40 to 60 men -- men whom it drilled, fed, and housed at military prison facilities under the watchful eyes of military police and wardens -- reflecting how little confidence the government and army had in the loyalty of their last-minute recruits.
This strikingly unsuccessful last-ditch effort, furthermore, constituted the sole exception to the Confederacy's steadfast refusal to employ African American soldiers. As Gen. Ewell's longtime aide-de-camp, Maj. George Campbell Brown, later affirmed, the handful of black soldiers mustered in Richmond in 1865 were "the first and only black troops used on our side."
The writer is a professor of history and African American studies at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. This column is adapted from a piece that appeared in the Fredericksburg, Va., Free Lance-Star in September."
As affirmed by my own research as a history major here in Texas, the total number of Blacks in the Confederate military of this state in 1865 numbered less than 100, including all slaves serving their masters in the field. They were apparently so mistrusted that by the end of the war there was grave concern at the idea of even letting them near weapons much less giving them one, so powerful was the fear, with federal troops so close to victory, that the (ex-)slaves would turn rebel against Confederate authority. The story that there were thousands of blacks serving in the Confederate military by the end of the war, as best as I and my colleagues have been able to find in the primary documents of the time, was a myth invented during the civil rights era of the 1950s and 60s, presumably to make the Confederate South seem less racist in hindsight.
By the time of the Civil war, Slavery had already been abolished in every European and American nation except the US, and the Slave-owning South broke away out of fear that the Northern non-Slave states were plotting to use their influence in Congress and the presidency to abolish it in the US, too (which they thought would destroy their livelihoods). By 1860, slavery was an anachronism, a remnant of European colonial policies, kept alive only by its profitability and the heavily embedded racism within the US, particularly the slave-owning South.Exterminas said:
As much as I like Lynyrd Skynyrd I will respectfully disagree with you. Seeing as the majority of the world associate it with racism, it has become a symbol of racism. Just as the swastika, no matter which form it comes in, no longer is associated with the sun, but with the nazis. Doesn't matter what it really represents, but what people think it does.
EDIT: I'm not saying it is a symbol of racism to me, only to most other people. For me it tickles my historical curiosity making me want to learn about the civil war and its reasons, and Lynyrd Skynyrd =)
EDIT: I'm not saying it is a symbol of racism to me, only to most other people. For me it tickles my historical curiosity making me want to learn about the civil war and its reasons, and Lynyrd Skynyrd =)
To me, the Confederate flag represents freedom of choice, but the idea of abusing that right by making some pretty bad choices.
It also represents the fact that those following the Confederates during the Civil War had the sheer gall and backwards thinking to fight for their right to force others into pay free labor, while at the same time thinking that they are an inferior race of humans. That's not just bad, that's ideals bordering on Nazi-ism. :\
Not to mention they were responsible for the death of one of the greatest presidents of all time, in my opinion. Ok, maybe not the Confederates themselves or it's flag were specifically, but because they attempted to secede and started that stupid war, it ultimately resulted in that happening.
It also represents the fact that those following the Confederates during the Civil War had the sheer gall and backwards thinking to fight for their right to force others into pay free labor, while at the same time thinking that they are an inferior race of humans. That's not just bad, that's ideals bordering on Nazi-ism. :\
Not to mention they were responsible for the death of one of the greatest presidents of all time, in my opinion. Ok, maybe not the Confederates themselves or it's flag were specifically, but because they attempted to secede and started that stupid war, it ultimately resulted in that happening.
In the present, racism.
Historically, yes, there were complex reasons for the secession of the South, etc. But having gone to school in a town where a Confederate flag sometimes meant family connections to the KKK and/or antagonism towards northerners/black people, I hate it. And a lot of the people flying that flag don't know or care about those complex reasons either - they have "Southern pride" because they grew up there, their daddy's daddy grew up there, they have ancestors who died fighting for the South and damned if they're not going to hold onto some of that bigotry and make it last as long as possible.
I realize this isn't everyone who flies the Confederate flag, but considering how closely it's linked in our national memory to racism (rightly or wrongly), it's become a rather grotesque and spiteful symbol.
Historically, yes, there were complex reasons for the secession of the South, etc. But having gone to school in a town where a Confederate flag sometimes meant family connections to the KKK and/or antagonism towards northerners/black people, I hate it. And a lot of the people flying that flag don't know or care about those complex reasons either - they have "Southern pride" because they grew up there, their daddy's daddy grew up there, they have ancestors who died fighting for the South and damned if they're not going to hold onto some of that bigotry and make it last as long as possible.
I realize this isn't everyone who flies the Confederate flag, but considering how closely it's linked in our national memory to racism (rightly or wrongly), it's become a rather grotesque and spiteful symbol.
It represents the South. The two images i see are the confederate army grey, and a red pick up truck.
But I also see racism, or the unwillingness to change. The south has to bear the original sin of slavery in america, and the racism it caused which is only recently beginning to dwindle. This isnt to say that the north was never racist, but they fought to abolish slavery for the sake of industrialisation, morality or strategic gains - but logically if you fight against slavery then you can claim the moral highground.
Personally if you think a flag represents you, then you are a fool. A country is more than a flag, a flag is a convienient representation FOR your country. Not OF your country. Say hateful things round a flag then you make your country look bad, even if its only you that thinks it.
But I also see racism, or the unwillingness to change. The south has to bear the original sin of slavery in america, and the racism it caused which is only recently beginning to dwindle. This isnt to say that the north was never racist, but they fought to abolish slavery for the sake of industrialisation, morality or strategic gains - but logically if you fight against slavery then you can claim the moral highground.
Personally if you think a flag represents you, then you are a fool. A country is more than a flag, a flag is a convienient representation FOR your country. Not OF your country. Say hateful things round a flag then you make your country look bad, even if its only you that thinks it.
So than why on many important historical documents, such as South Carolina's declaration of secession, is slavery pretty much the only mentioned reason for secession? I'm not denying that the North might have had the reason to declare war to unite the nation again, but the South certainly seceded because of slavery.velcrokidneyz said:
an awesome piece of art work on the roof top of a 1969 Orange Dodge Charger. That is all it will ever mean to me.
