What happened to the Escapist?

[Adultratedhydra]

Snip

I dont hit people in the face with sticks and i'd apologise if i did by accident.

But if Nazi's and the rest of europe hit people with sticks then both hit people with sticks, neither side has the right to hit people with sticks no matter how much they defend their right to both sides are wrong.

 

[Vault101]

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I dont hit people in the face with sticks and i'd apologise if i did by accident.

But if Nazi's and the rest of europe hit people with sticks then both hit people with sticks, neither side has the right to hit people with sticks no matter how much they defend their right to both sides are wrong.

you might not...but my point was it pays to think about the things we say/do (and the things we watch/read/play) instead of going on the defensive every single time (ie: gamergate)

 

[Adultratedhydra]

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I dont hit people in the face with sticks and i'd apologise if i did by accident.

But if Nazi's and the rest of europe hit people with sticks then both hit people with sticks, neither side has the right to hit people with sticks no matter how much they defend their right to both sides are wrong.

you might not...but my point was it pays to think about the things we say/do (and the things we watch/read/play) instead of going on the defensive every single time (ie: gamergate)

Again, GG is stupid but so is the other side. People are crying Soggy knee's and Racism where there is none in the same way GG is crying collusion and rampant orgies.

Both sides fail to realise they are the same thing using the same tactics just under a different flag and both sides always jump straight to the defensive. And the figureheads of both sides all need to be silent and let the grown ups talk. The fear tactics that the figureheads of them use are deplorable no matter what side you identify with.

I mean explain how a GGer doxxing someone is terrible but someone from the other side doxxing someone isnt? Its a scumbag move no matter who you are.

On the other side the Grave dancing over bob is uncalled for honestly. I didnt like bobs content so you know what i did? -Ignored it.-

 

[Casual Shinji]

most things are rarely if EVER intentional or at least you wont have people openly saying "I'm sexist" but that doesn't mean what they saying isn't sexist/whatever other ism there is

[b/]It's cool that your gay because youre not a butch dyke/a fag[/b] <-person doesn't think they're being homophobic cause they [i/]"are cool with gay people as long as they conform to my idea of gender norms"[/i] when in fact they expressed said homophobic sentiments (with a little mysogany thrown in)

[b/]you're really pretty and articulate for a black girl[/b] <-said person thinks they are paying her a compliment, when in fact they are drawing upon A.) beauty norms centered around white women as the standards and B.) stereotype that Black woman are uneducated and/or dumb

[b/]hey sweetie! why don't you go fetch me that paper on the desk?[/b] <-they think they're saying something nice when in fact its condescending, especially in a professional environment where said woman probably doesn't want to be spoken to like that.

Those sound more like lines from the token passive agressive jerk character from any number of modern comedies (usually played by David Koechner), rather than someone trying to not sound intentionally prejudice.

Sure, there's plenty of people out there who talk like that, but this isn't what I would call the best examples of unintentional sexism/racism, because it's pretty much dripping with it.

 

[Adultratedhydra]

Those sound more like lines from the token passive agressive jerk character from any number of modern comedies (usually played by David Koechner), rather than someone trying to not sound intentionally prejudice.

Sure, there's plenty of people out there who talk like that, but this isn't what I would call the best examples of unintentional sexism/racism, because it's pretty much dripping with it.

Nah mate world is black and white. You're a racist misogynist shitlord or you're Not.

(That was sarcasm and you're right. Outside of the token Asshole in assorted media I've never heard someone speak like that and be serious.)

 

[Adultratedhydra]

Now anyone who is moderate and able to just laugh at or ignore content they find questionable suffers; why does everything become so binary on the internet?

Nah mate there is no moderate. didnt you get the memo? the world is black and white and you are passively a bigot, it's ok that you didnt know though, I'm here to inform you of that.

 

[Vault101]

Those sound more like lines from the token passive agressive jerk character from any number of modern comedies (usually played by David Koechner), rather than someone trying to not sound intentionally prejudice.

Sure, there's plenty of people out there who talk like that, but this isn't what I would call the best examples of unintentional sexism/racism, because it's pretty much dripping with it.

true...but when you're trying to explain a concept its often better to use simple/obvious examples

plus its the first stuff that came to my head

plus I didn't want to get into an argument over weather or not the examples used were racist/sexist because that would have been beside the point

Again, GG is stupid but so is the other side. People are crying Soggy knee's and Racism where there is none in the same way GG is crying collusion and rampant orgies.

given the context I don't think it is the same, if you interpret a work as racist then thats a perfectly valid criticism...[b/]weather or not it holds up to scrutiny[/b] is another thing altogether and obviously comes with a heavy does of subjectivity...but thats just the nature of these discussions


[quote/]Both sides fail to realise they are the same thing using the same tactics just under a different flag and both sides always jump straight to the defensive. And the figureheads of both sides all need to be silent and let the grown ups talk. The fear tactics that the figureheads of them use are deplorable no matter what side you identify with.
.-[/quote]
there is such a thing as the golden median fallacey

and no Doxxing generally isn't ok

 

[Adultratedhydra]

Snip

You atleast have the stones to be civil. Usually people resort to the old "Sea lioning!" (Not sure why they assume sea lioning is bad. Are they saying they dont need to explain themselves?).

In any case We are always going to agree to disagree. End of the day GG is stuck in its containment thread and overall has far smaller impact on the site than some people seem to think.

Also the Golden Median Fallacy is just that. A Fallacy. Why does "Listen and believe" only apply to a select few? Why shouldnt both sides tell their story? What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? The world isnt black and white, It's a vast place with different idea's and motives. We cant all be relegated to "Misogynist shitlord or not" because that way madness lies.

And yes this is quite civil, Compared to most other conversations that go on around here Neither of us have needed to resort to snide insults. Fucking achievement on the forums at the moment.

 

[Vault101]

Also the Golden Median Fallacy is just that. A Fallacy. Why does "Listen and believe" only apply to a select few? Why shouldnt both sides tell their story? What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? The world isnt black and white, It's a vast place with different idea's and motives. We cant all be relegated to "Misogynist shitlord or not" because that way madness lies.

uhh....thats not how logical fallacies work

the golden median assumes that the "correct" answer to any "opposing sides" is a median between both of them, this is not always the case (ie: trying to have a "fair" debate over whether or not climate change is real when its pretty much confirmed by credibal sources and the opposition is just political posturing and diversion)

this ties into peoples tendency to veiw things as a diochotomy whee both things are equal opposites of each other...where isn't always true

EDIT: and sea lioning just means that we are not obligated to engage people..which is perfectly valid, partciually if its abuse or just the same dumb thing you've explained a million times before and won't change anyones mind anyway

 

[wizzy555]

Also the Golden Median Fallacy is just that. A Fallacy. Why does "Listen and believe" only apply to a select few? Why shouldnt both sides tell their story? What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? The world isnt black and white, It's a vast place with different idea's and motives. We cant all be relegated to "Misogynist shitlord or not" because that way madness lies.

uhh....thats not how logical fallacies work

the golden median assumes that the "correct" answer to any "opposing sides" is a median between both of them, this is not always the case (ie: trying to have a "fair" debate over whether or not climate change is real when its pretty much confirmed by credibal sources and th

Yes it is not always the case. But it is the case in this time.

It is only fallacious if your reasoning is IT MUST or always lies in the middle. If you have observed both sides and find you believe the truth is in the middle that isn't fallacious - it may be wrong but it isn't fallacious.

I really do hate how activists exploit fallacies.

 

[Adultratedhydra]

the golden median assumes that the "correct" answer to any "opposing sides" is a median between both of them, this is not always the case (ie: trying to have a "fair" debate over whether or not climate change is real when its pretty much confirmed by credibal sources and the opposition is just political posturing and diversion)

Except that is the case here. The truth is distorted by both sides and Both sides have done deplorable things that each side blames the other of. Everything is a False flag or Shilling. GG cant notice the blatant piggybacking for exposure from the smaller sites (Looking at techraptr here.) or the once no name E-Celebs latching onto them for views. It's the same on the other side, People latch onto an idea and use it to ride a wave to recognition. Until all of the "Figureheads" from both sides just shut up for 5 minutes nothing will die down, at this point its a self fulfilling prophecy complete with (Disproven) Claims that Swatting has killed someone.

It's like this, Remove the identifying lables and i couldnt tell you the difference Between Kotakuinaction and GamerGhazi. Both are full of horrible human beings but their leaders are even worse. Mundanematt, Milo(Especially Milo), that Aristocrat guy who peaced out, just to name afew, piggybacked all this just for youtube/Website views and so they had an audience to spout their crap to. On the other side though we have Geordie "Gas all the things" tait, Chris "You cant prove i sexually harassed anyone" Kluwe and Ben "Tetris is Soviet propoganda" Kuchera, again, just to name afew. Are we supposed to ignore that the figureheads of both sides are human scum just because one side says "It's a joke" When they are called out on it?

 

[Vault101]

If you have observed both sides and find you believe the truth is in the middle that isn't fallacious

which is the debatable part

[quote/]I really do hate how activists exploit fallacies.[/quote]
am I an actiivist now?

besides EVERYONE "exploits fallacies" if they understand them or not

 

[wizzy555]

If you have observed both sides and find you believe the truth is in the middle that isn't fallacious

which is the debatable part

There's a difference between being wrong and being fallacious.

Adultratedhydra has evidently observed the situation and come his conclusion without assuming it in the premises.

 

[Bizzaro Stormy]

What happened to this thread? It used to be a warm inviting place where people talked about the past and reminisced in the joyous comradeship of Escapist reading! Now it's attack and counter attack on whether GG ruined the site or not! WHY!!! (sobs softly for a while)

Seriously the forums used to look like a very unwelcoming place to an outsider. You fit the views of those already there or you don't go in them. Now they actually allow people to have different opinions and disagree with each other so long as it remains civil. You know what else, a liberal system of warnings means that even frequent hotheads can come in, make a mistake, and get over it. This is not a bad thing, hell it's the only reason several of the posters on this thread are still allowed to post on the site.

I know it's hard to fathom but there are several billion people on the planet who aren't YOU. They won't have the same opinions, they won't see the same situation the same way, and they won't view right and wrong the same way as you. This does not make them evil or insane. It makes them different.

I've noticed a trend among folks in the last few years who claim they are open minded. They become so engrossed in their own social crusades that they view any outsider or decenter as being a bigot. They aren't. They just view the world differently. You who would attack them for having a different opinion on a social matter, and shut them down with a sneer, you are the bigot.

I came here for ZP, I loved Lisa's Top 5, and for some insane reason I watched a lot of Jimquisition even though I didn't really like it. The written reviews were good as well. I miss Lisa. She came back once, she probably won't come back again. I can accept that. This site is a business and they will provide the content that they think will help the bottom line. Deal with it.

If you want the forums to be better make better posts. If you want the content to be better, than only click on the stuff you like, or what you haven't heard of before to give it a try! Or you could even send some of your own work, or recommend someone's, to the staff of the Escapist. They might like it.

Or you could just stick to the forum games. Those are fun.

 

[MrFalconfly]

and sea lioning just means that we are not obligated to engage people..which is perfectly valid, partciually if its abuse or just the same dumb thing you've explained a million times before and won't change anyones mind anyway

If you accuse people of deplorable things, and the accused demands explanation (i.e. "sealioning"), then you ARE obligated to explain yourself.

People generally respond badly to be called "misogynist arseholes", for no other reason than the accuser feeling like they are.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If you accuse people of deplorable things, and the accused demands explanation (i.e. "sealioning"), then you ARE obligated to explain yourself.

You're not obligated to do that. Just because you think someone is deplorable doesn't mean they are somehow entitled to your time.

 

[MrFalconfly]

If you accuse people of deplorable things, and the accused demands explanation (i.e. "sealioning"), then you ARE obligated to explain yourself.

You're not obligated to do that. Just because you think someone is deplorable doesn't mean they are somehow entitled to your time.

Yes they are.

They are entitled to an explanation of why I'm trying to possibly libel them. They are entitled to an explanation of why I'm calling them "Mysoginist Arseholes".

If I label someone, unprovoked, without explanation they are well within their rights to demand an explanation from me.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If I label someone, unprovoked, without explanation they are well within their rights to demand an explanation from me.

They can demand whatever they want. That doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

 

[Hazy992]

Thank you for proving my point Escapist staff/mods. Dissent will not be tolerated. You're a joke. Maybe instead of trying to silence and censor all criticism you should spend more time working on the website.

Calling all the user posts here 'liberal bullshit' (which couldn't be further from the truth if you tried), and saying the site needs to die and is a cancer is not even close to constructive criticism, so don't pretend it is.

 

[MrFalconfly]

If I label someone, unprovoked, without explanation they are well within their rights to demand an explanation from me.

They can demand whatever they want. That doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

But it does mean that I'm the arsehole for not providing any explanation.

They are just asking a question. I'm the one dogmatically refusing to answer.