What is being homophobic?

[Shadowstar38]

I don't really mind if they have the bias as long as they're not being dicks about it. It's only natural to feel uncomfortable when you see homosexuals displaying affection. It looks unnatural. Being at a "tolerance" level is the most acceptable thing I could ask for.

I don't care about people having the bias if they're not horrible about it, either, but the problem is most people cannot help themselves. That's why it's a problem. The dirty looks and blatant look aways are noticed, and they're hurtful to same-sex couples. And that shouldn't be. *If* a person has their biases under control that means they probably know it's wrong. It goes hand in hand. If you don't think having said bias wrong then you're always going to have it.

There is nothing unnatural about same-sex couples displaying affection. You believe it to be unnatural because it's not the norm. That's social constructs at work. And given double digit people on this very page have said they do not find it unnatural or off-putting, there isn't any reason not to work on your biases. It's about bettering yourself. It's about not creating a potential offensive situation. It's about taking an unnecessary burden off of your back. There is no *reason( to have this bias so you should want to rid yourself of it or at the very least get to the point it doesn't affect you.

When you think about it, it kind of is unnatural. Humans usually go by opposite sex couples attracting each other. Being attracted to the same sex is similar to a sexual deviation. Like S&M.

 

[Abomination]

I think the point you're trying make, Absy (can I call you Absy?) is that you're seeing this topic from a totally lustful position. Correct? I see a lot of mention of love but I don't think that has anything to do with it. Two guys kissing is a turn off for you. Hands are a turn off for me, for some reason. And feet.

When you cut down to it the whole premise of homosexuality IS based on lust. Lust towards/of the same gender.

Heterosexuality is sexual attraction towards, and only towards, the opposite gender.

I just find it absurd that the fact I do not enjoy watching two homosexual men have a clearly romantic kiss with one another as something that, according to 101flyboy, is wrong with me. One might as well say there is something wrong with finding a certain type of cheese disgusting.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

I don't really mind if they have the bias as long as they're not being dicks about it. It's only natural to feel uncomfortable when you see homosexuals displaying affection. It looks unnatural. Being at a "tolerance" level is the most acceptable thing I could ask for.

I don't care about people having the bias if they're not horrible about it, either, but the problem is most people cannot help themselves. That's why it's a problem. The dirty looks and blatant look aways are noticed, and they're hurtful to same-sex couples. And that shouldn't be. *If* a person has their biases under control that means they probably know it's wrong. It goes hand in hand. If you don't think having said bias wrong then you're always going to have it.

There is nothing unnatural about same-sex couples displaying affection. You believe it to be unnatural because it's not the norm. That's social constructs at work. And given double digit people on this very page have said they do not find it unnatural or off-putting, there isn't any reason not to work on your biases. It's about bettering yourself. It's about not creating a potential offensive situation. It's about taking an unnecessary burden off of your back. There is no *reason( to have this bias so you should want to rid yourself of it or at the very least get to the point it doesn't affect you.

The reason why they still cling to and defend their disgust is because they still think, deep down, that homosexuality is unnatural (whatever that is supposed to mean), you yourself see that they glorify themselves for not being aggressive towards homosexual couples and to them that is enough. But as Buddha has said "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

 

[101flyboy]

Oh, I'm... PRETTY close to this gay friend, man.

Actually, That Rebellion fella said sickening. That's what I picked up on.

Anyway, I see your point but I disagree. Striving to be the best you can be doesn't mean you need to change this shit.

Then you're not striving to better yourself. And that's the problem I have. It's not that a person has this bias. But that you are called out on it, admit to it, and then make excuses for it. I see it as making excuses for bad behavior, like if you steal something and then blame it on not having enough money. OK, but still, it's wrong. Why adamantly defend your wrongness when you can be not wrong.

People can be disgusted by two guys kissing. If he told them they shouldn't be doing that or if he thought it's morally wrong, then he would be a bit shit as a person. Then I'd say he needs to look at his way of thinking. I just think it's nowhere near a big deal if it's a turn off for him. But he wasn't talking about the love, he was talking about the actual kissing. Personally I hate public displays of affection of any kind. Fuck that.

There is a difference between turn-off vs disgust, however. Being turned off by something means you find it unappealing. For someone like you, you're not biased. You just don't like PDA, which is fair. That's not having a bias, it's having a quantifiable view on something that is consistent regardless of who is doing it.

Aaron, the OP, stated he found the inference that two guys are homosexual disgusting and hand holding. Not simply kissing. And we're not even discussing making out. But some loving pecks. A kiss on the lips. What exactly is disgusting about that? If Aaron said I don't like seeing two guys make out, that's one thing. He more or less said he finds everything about male-male sexuality disgusting to the point of seizures. That's having a problem that will limit you in life, because you're going to avoid putting yourself in situations where that thing you're more or less panicking about is likely present. You're going to have a wall up, and that voice in your head of "ewww, gross" is going to be there. This isn't basic discomfort with you can work through. Discomfort doesn't denote wrongness. Discomfort is something you can work through, often easily. Disgust does denote wrongness. You can try to pretty it up a bit but ultimately, being disgusted by two guys kissing because they are two guys is effectively saying you find it wrong. On a practical level, theoretical level, moral level, whatever level it may be. Going out of your way to turn your head or give a dirty look is a pretty big deal to gay couples who see that and internalize the condemnation. That's why this is a bias that no-one should want to have. You shouldn't *want* to feel completely repelled in situations where without said bias, you wouldn't have such concerns. You shouldn't "want* to not be totally comfortable around your gay friends.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Homophobic is not agreeing with same sex relationships. An thats fine. I have no issue with gay people, do what you want. But also people are free to be against it....as long as they are not violent or abusive. Just live your life, dont care about what whom ever thinks.

 

[101flyboy]

The reason why they still cling to and defend their disgust is because they still think, deep down, that homosexuality is unnatural (whatever that is supposed to mean), you yourself see that they glorify themselves for not being aggressive towards homosexual couples and to them that is enough. But as Buddha has said "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

I love that Buddha quote. It's so accurate. And you're absolutely right about what, deep down, these four of five posters going out of their way to justify their bias think. They think homosexuality is unnatural and wrong. They may not want to believe that is what they believe but it is. And all it takes is a deconstruction of their attempts at logic to get down to what they're truly thinking in their minds. That's why calling homosexuality disgust is, at the end of the day, a moral condemnation. Hence the term projective disgust.

 

[101flyboy]

Homophobic is not agreeing with same sex relationships. An thats fine. I have no issue with gay people, do what you want. But also people are free to be against it....as long as they are not violent or abusive. Just live your life, dont care about what whom ever thinks.

Not caring what people think is hard to do when about 40-50% of people around you actively believe you to be wrong and gross solely for how you were created. It's easy to dismiss a few idiots and harder to dismiss an entire swath of a society.

Homophobia is an irrational fear of, aversion towards and/or discrimination against homosexuality/homosexuals. Disagreeing with same-sex relationships is anti-gay.

People are free to be homophobic/anti-gay, but it's wrong. And it shouldn't be given a free pass because it's harmful.

 

[Dense_Electric]

To be fair, I think we need a new term. I don't doubt that many of the stereotypical redneck, overly-Christian, AMURKA LUV IT ER LEVE IT YOU COMMYOUNIST BAESTERD folks absolutely hate all homosexuals (whatever they may claim to the contrary), but I don't think they actually fear them, which is what the term "homophobia" actually means. But people use the term in the same way they'd use the terms "racist," or "sexist," so perhaps "sexualist," or "orientationalist?"

 

[101flyboy]

When you think about it, it kind of is unnatural. Humans usually go by opposite sex couples attracting each other. Being attracted to the same sex is similar to a sexual deviation. Like S&M.

First, I want to say, thanks for admitting your true feelings on the subject in a round-about way. You think homosexuality is unnatural. Hence you have a negative bias against it. You're about the fourth person to say this, so that's a bit of a trend. Then this goes from "I just don't like to see the kissing" to "homosexuality is incorrect".

S&M is sexual behavior. Being gay is a sexual orientation. Humans are animals and homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom, making it natural by definition.

This is for you and for others who have directly/indirectly said homosexuality is unnatural: What exactly is *wrong* with homosexuality? Not speaking from a moral sense. Conceptually. What's wrong with it?

 

[101flyboy]

To be fair, I think we need a new term. I don't doubt that many of the stereotypical redneck, overly-Christian, AMURKA LUV IT ER LEVE IT YOU COMMYOUNIST BAESTERD folks absolutely hate all homosexuals (whatever they may claim to the contrary), but I don't think they actually fear them, which is what the term "homophobia" actually means. But people use the term in the same way they'd use the terms "racist," or "sexist," so perhaps "sexualist," or "orientationalist?"

Homophobia isn't about being scared of homosexual persons. It's more about being threatened by homosexuality and, in connection to that, homosexual persons, and even pro-gay straights. Homophobia at it's base level is about insecurity and discomfort with homosexuality. Which are both fear based traits. So it's not the term that's the problem, however it's used inappropriately and become politicized.

Heterosexist is a popular term as well but like homophobia, it doesn't always apply. I keep it short and sweet and say anti-gay bigot.

 

[bossfight1]

In the words of Morgan Freeman...
"I hate the word homophobia. It's not a phobia. You are not scared. You are an asshole."

To me, homophobia is the stupidity center of your brain forcing you to be hostile against those who have the GALL to do something differently from you.

Here's something fun we can do, though; if you ever get into a debate regarding legalizing gay marriage, ask the person voting against it to give you one good reason they shouldn't, that DOESN'T involve the Bible.

 

[Kroxile]

I agree with the OP and I feel pretty much the same way.

Its how I am. I can't help it. Its as natural to me as it is for a gay guy to be doing what he does and for anyone to call me prejudiced and bigoted for what comes naturally is pretty hypocritical in itself.

 

[101flyboy]

Heterosexuality is sexual attraction towards, and only towards, the opposite gender.

Well, in that case, most heterosexuals aren't heterosexuals and most homosexuals aren't actually homosexuals. I'm attracted to some women who are beautiful. Plenty of straight men are attracted to men they find good looking. You can find someone of the same-sex attractive and not be gay. You seem to be pretty uptight about sex and sexuality.

I just find it absurd that the fact I do not enjoy watching two homosexual men have a clearly romantic kiss with one another as something that, according to 101flyboy, is wrong with me. One might as well say there is something wrong with finding a certain type of cheese disgusting.

You keep making a big deal of basic affection. You'll have to ask yourself why. It's not about you ENJOYING two guys kissing, either. I never said you needed to enjoy it. No-one said you had to be attracted to the same-sex or be completely neutral towards same-sex kissing. Being so defensive isn't a good thing.

 

[Abomination]

This is for you and for others who have directly/indirectly said homosexuality is unnatural: What exactly is *wrong* with homosexuality? Not speaking from a moral sense. Conceptually. What's wrong with it?

It's an evolutionary dead-end.

That is if you want to get down to the complete nitty-gritty of the human condition and how nature operates. Survival of the fittest, homosexuality removes itself from the system. Morally there is nothing wrong with it, ethically there is nothing wrong with it, from a NATURAL perspective it goes heavily against the flow.

It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with homosexuality in a societal sense, especially given how quickly the human race has been populating the earth - it's actually a good thing for it. But deep down inside the animal that is man, we know it is not how we are "designed" to operate.

Something being unnatural does not make it wrong. Something being unnatural does not make it evil. Something being wrong does not make it unnatural. Something being evil does not make it unnatural.

 

[101flyboy]

I agree with the OP and I feel pretty much the same way.

Its how I am. I can't help it. Its as natural to me as it is for a gay guy to be doing what he does and for anyone to call me prejudiced and bigoted for what comes naturally is pretty hypocritical in itself.

No it isn't, because being gay is not a negative and your biases are negative so even if your biases were natural, they aren't deserving of similar acceptance as being gay. And given the fact NUMEROUS people here have said they once found same-sex affection off-putting and now they do not, more or less throws out the "it's how I am, I can't help myself" canard. There are too many straight people without these biases or who have every ability to repress these biases, to say your biases are simply completely natural. You don't want to help yourself. That's one thing. You can say that. You may feel no need to help yourself. That doesn't mean you can't. It doesn't mean you shouldn't. It's pretty offensive to compare homophobia to being gay.

 

[Something Amyss]

Most people dont think of my named reason directly, its more like an imprinted behavior by society and those things can be old, old enough maybe to be from a time where it would be very rare for a woman in her fourties to have another child. Just another point for going after what society told you without thinking further...
Thats maybe an explanation, but you certainly told me something I didnt think of.

I forget the name of the effect, but there is a normal "bonding" that happens between most siblings and close family that leads to the disinterest in them as partners. This is also certainly an unnamed source of the "ick" factor.

However, I think a good amount of it resorts to a similar bigotry as towards gays, which is why I bring it up. Incest does make me uncomfortable, but at the same time, it's nowhere near as harmful as it's believed to be. That's not to say it's good, either. It's just odd where we draw the lines. Where things are "different."

Lack of attraction doesn't=disgust. You can be not attracted to something and also not disgusted by it.

Yes. Good God yes.

Call it political correctness, but sometimes it's easier to just call it being considerate.

Semi-tangential, but I think society is seriously lacking in basic empathy these days. It does relate to this topic and to homosexuality in general, but also to the broader state of the world. We are so dismissive as a culture to people who are different from us. We also seem to be so sheltered and spoiled that we freak out when people have different behaviours or cultural practices.

And more on the topic of gays, you bring up something that tends to chafe me a bit. Gays do get crap for doing the same thing straights do. And in this topic and millions like it, there are a ton of people who say things like "but I don't like it when heterosexuals do it, either." The thing is, it's usually the gays who are told to stop. Or get out. It's really rare to ever see a straight couple get told to knock it off, and when you do, there's a lot of people who think you're being a jerk for it. There is a basic inequity in our responses (as a culture, not yours or mine) between what we consider acceptable and not.

We try and justify it a million little different ways, but it really does come down to prejudice.

 

[101flyboy]

In the words of Morgan Freeman...
"I hate the word homophobia. It's not a phobia. You are not scared. You are an asshole."

To me, homophobia is the stupidity center of your brain forcing you to be hostile against those who have the GALL to do something differently from you.

Here's something fun we can do, though; if you ever get into a debate regarding legalizing gay marriage, ask the person voting against it to give you one good reason they shouldn't, that DOESN'T involve the Bible.

LOL. Those arguments always end up cringe inducing. Usually it ends up with the bigot saying "they can't have babies" or "it's just wrong".

I'm biracial, I'm not religious, I wouldn't say I'm a feminist but I'm big into women's rights. And homophobia to me is the most utterly ridiculous bigotry of any of the major forms of discrimination. There is literally NO reason these people have for their attitudes. That's why it's hard to get upset with anything they say or do. Why take complete ignorance and stupidity serious?

 

[Kroxile]

I agree with the OP and I feel pretty much the same way.

Its how I am. I can't help it. Its as natural to me as it is for a gay guy to be doing what he does and for anyone to call me prejudiced and bigoted for what comes naturally is pretty hypocritical in itself.

No it isn't, because being gay is not a negative and your biases are negative so even if your biases were natural, they aren't deserving of similar acceptance as being gay. And given the fact NUMEROUS people here have said they once found same-sex affection off-putting and now they do not, more or less throws out the "it's how I am, I can't help myself" canard. There are too many straight people without these biases or who have every ability to repress these biases, to say your biases are simply completely natural. You don't want to help yourself. That's one thing. You can say that. You may feel no need to help yourself. That doesn't mean you can't. It doesn't mean you shouldn't. It's pretty offensive to compare homophobia to being gay.

I somehow just *knew* that you'd be the one to one to running out in protest to what I said.

3 words to you: Get. Over. Yourself.

Rationalize it however you want. I don't want to see gay people making out in public anymore than I want to see straight people making out in public. What anyone does behind closed doors is their own business, but I don't want to see it.

 

[101flyboy]

And more on the topic of gays, you bring up something that tends to chafe me a bit. Gays do get crap for doing the same thing straights do. And in this topic and millions like it, there are a ton of people who say things like "but I don't like it when heterosexuals do it, either." The thing is, it's usually the gays who are told to stop. Or get out. It's really rare to ever see a straight couple get told to knock it off, and when you do, there's a lot of people who think you're being a jerk for it. There is a basic inequity in our responses (as a culture, not yours or mine) between what we consider acceptable and not.

We try and justify it a million little different ways, but it really does come down to prejudice.

Very very good point. That's why it's disingenuous to not believe that the "I don't like same-sex PDA" is really about discomfort with something you aren't used to, or just not liking PDA. That may be part of it. But it's also about finding it wrong to be gay/homosexuality in general. It's society picking on people that they view as vulnerable (minority status) and behaving incorrectly (straight is the natural way, gay is not). Sort of like wagging your finger and saying "No, no, no" when a dog wets the carpet. Heterosexism at work, gotta keep those faggots in line. We can't have them contaminating our society with their wrongness.

 

[Xisin]

Projective disgust is what this is called. It's partially about one's own purity, and it's partially about the dirtiness of the "other". The "other" in the case of many heterosexuals is homosexuality. For many homosexuals it's heterosexuality. And what it means is basically, you're seeing things from the context of a gay person, if you're straight, and see two men kissing. And for straight guys especially, the first thing that triggers them is, when thinking things in the context of a gay person, when in a gay environment, is anal sex. Male anal sex. Secondly, it's male oral sex. It's about the sharing of saliva when two people kiss. It's about a guy going out of his traditional gender role and doing what a woman is *supposed* to do. It's about you being in a situation that you as an individual are insecure with. That you find contaminates yourself.

These attitudes are 100% shaped by social norms. In many countries, men kiss as a greeting. In my life, I live with a lot of social liberal type straights and gays alike, alternative types. I kiss my straight friends, cuddle with them even. It's not a big deal at all, we're all very affectionate. It depends on how you have been raised. It depends on if you've been indoctrinated by a homophobic society to hold a homophobic mentality.

Disgust is a moral based trait that becomes physical. The kissing itself isn't what disgusts you. It's the fact a MAN is doing what he isn't "supposed" to do that you find disgusting for the reasons said above. Straight men don't feel this way about lesbians because they don't have such a mentality that women aren't "supposed" to be with another woman. Same way with straight girls who love gay sex but hate basic same-sex affection between two women. Disgust is different than discomfort. Being uncomfortable with something means, OK, well, this is something I don't expect or is new to me, but it shows you this person is open to calming down, and realizing, OK, well, that's not a big deal.

Disgust is a major line in the sand basically saying THIS IS WRONG. So whether people realize it or not, when you call basic same-sex affection disgusting, you're calling it wrong.

Honest question: How do you regard people who find spinach or some other food disgusting?

Welp, you have to try spinach to know you don't like it right? Better get to work my friend.