What is being homophobic?

[Kartoffelmos]

So what you're saying is "Shut up and start liking tomatoes"? Because I am fine with the colour of tomatoes, I am fine with growing tomatoes, I am fine with the taste of tomatoes, I understand the nutrient benefit of tomatoes, I don't want to stop other people from being able to eat tomatoes but I don't like the texture of tomatoes and I get the shivers when I see someone bite into a tomato because it reminds me of the texture I don't like.

And that makes me homophobic.

That's... not at all what I said? No need to get so defensive.

 

[101flyboy]

The problem is, you don't know what you're talking about, you're super defensive, and you're making categorical statements on something you have little understanding of. I'm not trying to be rude, but you know very little to nothing about evolution. So it's best if you didn't speak as if you did, because it's really a bad imprint on you.

Apparently stating that if someone doesn't have children means their personal genetic seed will not be passed on is an incorrect statement. Essentially I said "If you don't have children you don't have children." I was not going to get into the minefield that is evolutionary opinion and I most certainly did not speak of how HOMOSEXUALITY itself is passed from ancestors to child.

But you are determined that I am homophobic. You like to remind me every time despite not actually giving a clear and concise reason why a thought of revulsion that is also generated when one sees two ugly people performing the same thing in very specific circumstances, not acted upon, is homophobic. Do not say "I already explained it" because you did not. Explain it -again- in words that take into account the very specific circumstance and while you're at it realise that you're condemning someone as homophobic for thought crime.

No, actually, you've said homosexuality is unnatural. Let's not wash away what you've said. You said it's natural to feel disgusted towards homosexuality, because it's unnatural. Be honest about what you've said.

I never called you homophobic. I said you have issues with internalized homophobia. You continue to compare being unattractive to a sexual orientation. As for me condemning you for thought crime, I'm not condemning you for your irrational thoughts because we've all grown up in a homophobic society and have damage as a result. I'm condemning the fact you keep denying you have issues with internalized homophobia when double digit straight people in this very thread have said they have no issue with two men kissing. So again, you being straight has nothing to do with your revulsion. Stop making excuses for your internalized homophobia. Stop being defensive. Stop acting as if people are personally attacking you. Start being realistic.

 

[101flyboy]

Comparing human beings to tomatoes now. It's amusing at this point.

 

[TAGM]

This is a good post. Except for one thing............I do think it's in your control. Not necessarily the fact people are indoctrinated into being homophobia, but it can be eliminated. That is something that can be controlled and repression in itself is controlling it and oftentimes leads to a deletion of homophobia because you just because used to thinking a certain way and your thought processes working a certain way. But as long as you admit that homophobia is wrong and you don't harm non-heterosexual individuals and impose your homophobia onto them, then no-one can do anything about it and no-one would need to, because it's not an issue in the first place.

I suppose you have a point. (In fact, I was sort of debating in my own head if it really isn't in our control or not - I suppose I lent one way for the purposes of OP comfort or something) I guess it's less that it's not in our control, and more that having thoughts isn't something we really punish people over. The Thought Police don't exist yet, so as long as your actions don't end up being dictated by the bad thoughts, then it should be fine enough at least from a legal perspective.

 

[101flyboy]

This is a good post. Except for one thing............I do think it's in your control. Not necessarily the fact people are indoctrinated into being homophobia, but it can be eliminated. That is something that can be controlled and repression in itself is controlling it and oftentimes leads to a deletion of homophobia because you just because used to thinking a certain way and your thought processes working a certain way. But as long as you admit that homophobia is wrong and you don't harm non-heterosexual individuals and impose your homophobia onto them, then no-one can do anything about it and no-one would need to, because it's not an issue in the first place.

I suppose you have a point. (In fact, I was sort of debating in my own head if it really isn't in our control or not - I suppose I lent one way for the purposes of OP comfort or something) I guess it's less that it's not in our control, and more that having thoughts isn't something we really punish people over. The Thought Police don't exist yet, so as long as your actions don't end up being dictated by the bad thoughts, then it should be fine enough at least from a legal perspective.

Yes, exactly. No-one can force you to control your thoughts and no-one can force you to think a certain way if you don't choose to. Ultimately, the changes begin and end with yourself. The problem is that most people are resistant to change or don't care about changing something within themselves that is questionable/negative. They'll tell themselves they will change but don't. It takes word and most aren't willing to work at it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though. It's not *that* hard if you put in the effort.

 

[repeating integers]

It's not fair. To the minority here disgusted by homosexuality or saying homosexuality is unnatural, you're not going to get a free pass because you "have gay friends". If your gay friends knew what you truly thought of them, they wouldn't be your friends anymore. You're not accepting. You're tolerant. You're respectful. You do not accept same-sex love as OK, as normal, as natural. That is what being accepting is. Not panicking when two guys kiss. Not considering it disgusting. Slight discomfort I can understand because it's something you're not used to seeing in society on average, but slight discomfort isn't something that is going to cause a person to turn their heads and make dirty faces.

Dunno about you, but I consider it polite to look away when two people kiss. What else am I supposed to do, stare at their private little moment with each other? That's intrusive. I find it hard to believe a gay couple would be offended by people so much as looking away when they kiss.

'Course, making a disgusted face or noise is out of line (if not entirely a controllable reaction with some), but I think you're taking it a bit too far here.

 

[101flyboy]

It's not fair. To the minority here disgusted by homosexuality or saying homosexuality is unnatural, you're not going to get a free pass because you "have gay friends". If your gay friends knew what you truly thought of them, they wouldn't be your friends anymore. You're not accepting. You're tolerant. You're respectful. You do not accept same-sex love as OK, as normal, as natural. That is what being accepting is. Not panicking when two guys kiss. Not considering it disgusting. Slight discomfort I can understand because it's something you're not used to seeing in society on average, but slight discomfort isn't something that is going to cause a person to turn their heads and make dirty faces.

Dunno about you, but I consider it polite to look away when two people kiss. What else am I supposed to do, stare at their private little moment with each other? That's intrusive. I find it hard to believe a gay couple would be offended by people so much as looking away when they kiss.

'Course, making a disgusted face or noise is out of line (if not entirely a controllable reaction with some), but I think you're taking it a bit too far here.

It may seem I'm taking it a bit far, but I will explain. When you see two people kissing, you're not going to just stare at them, of course. But there is a difference between diverting your eyes as to not focus on the two people kissing or looking down, using your phone or blackberry and zoning out......and then going out of your way to turn your head. Turning your head, turning your back away from two people kissing, is a pretty forward thing. It's an aggressive thing to do. It's not a "I don't want to focus on you kissing" or "I don't want to be rude" action. It's a "I don't want to fucking see this" action.

There is a big difference. It may appear to be nitpicking but for the couple kissing, the difference between these acts are obvious.

I'm definitely not saying to stare, but you can simply not focus on the couple kissing or self-focus without making it a point to look away, because it's noticeable. Simply diverting your eyes or focusing inward isn't noticeable.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards, discrimination/hatred of homosexuality/homosexuals.

The problem is with this flawed definition - fear does not always mean hatred and vice versa. For example, I hate child molesters. But damn, I don't fear them. Like, at all. Not in the slightest.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

I think homos are disgusting and should seek help, but I have no choice to tolerate or avert my eyes at something I want unseen. Also, adoption by them makes me sick to the stomach.

It's sad that whenever people talk about finding a cure or a gene it's classified as homophobia. Judging by the amount of suicide in homos, one would think a cure would be welcome, or maybe some people like to do things nature intended.

Anyway, lesbians are sexy but I too think it's wrong, I'm openly hypocrite in that respect.

A couple making out in public is uncomfortable anyway, regardless of who it is, I have been fortunate enough to not catch men kissing though.

I actually feel similar. This is due to the fact that homosexuality is, as far as we learned, biologically a mutation, anomaly*. One that goes against one of the core traits of our species - reproduction. Homos are disgusting to me in a way cannibals, necrophiliacs, serial killers and idea of walking corpses are disgusting. It all goes against something that is required for our species normal survival - not eating each other, not mindlessly killing each other, reproducing. And staying dead when you die. Naturally, all those things happen, except for zombie thing that is, as do plague and death by being eaten by a bear. Doesn't mean you shouldn't want to stop this.
That said, I never considered lesbians sexy. That is, I love pretty girls, sure, but two girls kissing each other feels weird. Not revolting though, no, just uncomfortable.

Agreed about adoption. Not allowed in my country thankfully.

*Some people insist it's all in the psychics. And is curable. Doubt it, I thought genetic explanation was proved to be real.

 

[101flyboy]

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards, discrimination/hatred of homosexuality/homosexuals.

The problem is with this flawed definition - fear does not always mean hatred and vice versa. For example, I hate child molesters. But damn, I don't fear them. Like, at all. Not in the slightest.

The problem isn't with the definition. You don't have to necessarily be scared of gay people to be homophobic. It doesn't mean you run away from gay people when you see them. Fear in this respect is more of a mistrusting, threatening thing.

BTW, sex isn't solely to procreate and homosexuals are not heterosexuals. So comparing homosexuality and heterosexuality is baseless.

 

[101flyboy]

The good thing about this thread is it's made it pretty clear that the only reason people feel repelled by same-sex intimacy is that they find it unnatural. So instead of the average excuses made for such behavior, at least we can see it for what it is and realize that negativity surrounding the concept homosexuality is VERY real.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

The good thing about this thread is it's made it pretty clear that the only reason people feel repelled by same-sex intimacy is that they find it unnatural. So instead of the average excuses made for such behavior, at least we can see it for what it is and realize that negativity surrounding the concept homosexuality is VERY real.

That has always been the case and I doubt anybody had a different opinion on where homophobia originates ;d It's pointless to BLAME them for anything though, because that isn't a realization they themselves reached after much internal deliberation. It is an opinion that has been driven into them and constantly reinforced by the outside world. We can see it at work even now for the opposite - now homophobia is seen as wrong, but that too didn't come from themselves, but because society is growing up a bit and is more accepting in general. That worries me though, because it shows a lack of personal thought and a sheep mentality on a massive scale (not surprising anybody there).

WE can't really convince them that homosexuality is natural no matter what evidence we come up with, because most people are close-minded and refuse to change their stance even when they are proven wrong. The only thing we can do is teach acceptance in the younger generations and in time I hope all pointless hate and fear is going to dissipate. We are on the right track though.

 

[afroebob]

It sounds more like a sexual repulsion than a moral or ethical one. On a sexual level you are attracted to women but repulsed by men and as such you are repulsed when two men kiss but attracted when two women kiss. As such I wouldn't call it homophobic.

 

[Orinon]

Now I'm pretty sure everything I say has been said by others, but I',m going to say it anyways.
First of all, it's good that your not biased agiasnt gays, normally when i see a homophobic person i tell them to grow up.
My reason for this is simply I beleive these people are only complaining because they're insecure abotu themself. as a saying goes, No one is that homophobic without being in the closet.
Though the idea of being grossed ou by two gay guys but being aroused by lesbians, Your overthinking it.
As a straight guy I'm attracted to girls, therefore a girl doing sexual acts causes arousal so seeing two girls being sexual yeah that excites me. To be honest I tend to look away when I see a guy and girl kissing in public, this is likely for several reasons, but in general it's a sort of privacy thing. however seeing two guys yes it might seem unpleasant because your not interested in guys. I could be alone on this but I really don;t need to know how much sex any of my friends are having even girls.

 

[101flyboy]

Wow. We've now gone from homosexuality being unnatural, to homosexuality being a deviant fetish.

It's like we've stepped into Free Republic. Really, really pathetic. It's somewhat amusing, still. Solely because I want to see how far this thread devolves before being closed.

 

[101flyboy]

You've never heard a gay man say he thinks heterosexuality is gross?

You must not know a lot of gay men, lol.

I know gay men who think vagina is gross is general. I know gay men who think boobs are ugly fat bubbles. I know straight men who think feet are disgusting and straight men who like to fantasize about their sisters. I know gay and straight men and women who like to pretend that they are raping their partner in bed.

Like I said before, discomfort is a NORMAL reaction to any sort of deviant sexual behavior that doesn't turn you on.

I didn't say heterosexuality. I said a man and woman kissing. You don't see gay men, lesbian women saying they don't want to see men and women kiss. They find it abhorrent. Disgusting. And unnatural. Nope. A few do, and they're usually the real extreme types who have an inner-hatred towards straight people in general.

I think vagina is unappaling personally. Not really gross in terms of gagging, but it makes do a double take, I don't like the sight of vaginas at all. I find it unappealing. I know straight men who find vagina gross. I know straight women who find vagina gross. I don't find WOMEN gross. I don't find heterosexual sex gross. There is a big difference between disliking one aspect of a respective gender's body, and finding the entire gender "disgusting". Let's be clear about that. A lot of straight guys say they find men disgusting. That isn't a rational mentality. That is irrational. No-one is disgusting because of their physical sex.

You, like essentially all of the posters here defending the OP, keep turning this into an issue of sex. It's PROJECTIVE DISGUST. You are projecting disgust on an innocent action such as kissing because you mind turns to the messier aspects of what these two people are doing, which is anal sex and oral sex with two guys, and vaginal intercourse with two women. You project disgust and discomfort onto an innocent thing such as kissing because you find these messier aspects unnatural and disgusting. Because you find these things wrong. It's a protective mechanism, a person finds these things unnatural and wrong, so your mind rejects them outright.

There is nothing unnatural, wrong, or inherently disgusting regarding homosexuality. There is nothing deviant regarding homosexuality. There is nothing unhealthy regarding homosexuality.

When you allow socially-constructed biases enter your mind, it becomes instinctual to think a certain way about things. It becomes ingrained into you. That doesn't make it natural, and that doesn't make those thoughts acceptable.

 

[101flyboy]

That has always been the case and I doubt anybody had a different opinion on where homophobia originates ;d

Hahaha, true, but a few here have said that homophobia is natural revulsion that straight people have towards homosexuality (while being proven wrong by other straight people saying they feel no such revulsion) and that homophobia is a result of a natural revulsion towards the fact homosexuality doesn't end up in life (ain't that a doozy). So it's good to see the *actual* reason reinforced for those who may actually not understand why homophobia exists

It's pointless to BLAME them for anything though, because that isn't a realization they themselves reached after much internal deliberation. It is an opinion that has been driven into them and constantly reinforced by the outside world.

Exactly. It's not the human that's in error. They are simply believing/acting out what they know. It's the society and the actual mentality that's in error and needs fixing.

We can see it at work even now for the opposite - now homophobia is seen as wrong, but that too didn't come from themselves, but because society is growing up a bit and is more accepting in general. That worries me though, because it shows a lack of personal thought and a sheep mentality on a massive scale (not surprising anybody there).

No surprises at all. But I'll take it.........at least on this, the ends justify the means. If it takes promoting acceptance of homosexuality and complete media/wide-reaching social condemnation of homophobia to pressure people into not being homophobic, then that's what it takes.

WE can't really convince them that homosexuality is natural no matter what evidence we come up with, because most people are close-minded and refuse to change their stance even when they are proven wrong. The only thing we can do is teach acceptance in the younger generations and in time I hope all pointless hate and fear is going to dissipate. We are on the right track though.

We definitely are on the right track. Younger generations are clearly much more accepting than all other groups, as they are growing up in a word where there is more gay inclusiveness, awareness, and gay-positive messages being sent from people in powerful places. It's fostered change in a lot of adults, too. Things are continuously getting better. We can't convince those who refuse to change to see the error of their ways but we can definitely call them out on refusing to do so. We have to.

 

[chadachada123]

The good thing about this thread is it's made it pretty clear that the only reason people feel repelled by same-sex intimacy is that they find it unnatural.

Not at all. I would be a bit disgusted internally if I saw an old person (think 80-ish) making out with a younger person (say, 20), and don't see how having a similar feeling when seeing two people of the same gender make out is INHERENTLY wrong, nor have you done anything to show that this disgust is because of some connection to some other type of disgust. Yes, some or even most of the people disgusted by specific sexual acts also have latent prejudices as well, but the two are not mutually inclusive. I don't get grossed out from seeing any gender make out, but I do for, as above, older and younger mixings. In no way do I think that I am more "pure" than some old guy, nor does the cleanliness play into it. It's just an irrational, unconscious reaction.

To use an example:

So what you're saying is "Shut up and start liking tomatoes"? Because I am fine with the colour of tomatoes, I am fine with growing tomatoes, I am fine with the taste of tomatoes, I understand the nutrient benefit of tomatoes, I don't want to stop other people from being able to eat tomatoes but I don't like the texture of tomatoes and I get the shivers when I see someone bite into a tomato because it reminds me of the texture I don't like.

Even if he had earlier said that homosexuality is unnatural or whatever other illogical things he said, this post by itself does a great job explaining the mindset, and how, so long as the person recognizes that it is irrational, there is no issue, as it is just that: IRRATIONAL.

Whenever I see a long strand of hair on my person, I flip the fuck out until it is removed. I remove any long strands that I see, even pulling them off of the clothes of people I'm with, just to get them away. A small clump of knotted hair, especially when it is made of long strands, makes me gag just thinking about it. There's no reason for this. I KNOW there's no reason for this. But my gag reflex does not give a shit about rationality.

TL;DR: Quit generalizing. It makes you look, well, incredibly intolerant.

 

[Technocrat]

It's a learned prejudice. Fifty years ago, people of different ethnicities kissing on television caused apocalyptic uproars. In fifty years time, nobody will care about men kissing on TV.

 

[Rblade]

It's just an irrational, unconscious reaction.

thank you, my exact thought.

If you grow up without something, it will appear strange to you and it will trigger that response. It's my rational choice to ignore that type of reaction and not act upon them in any way that makes me human, and in my case not homophobic or racist. Even if homosexuals, and yes also some ethnic groups, give me a moments pause sometimes (by no means disgust). I'm sure I'll completely grow out of it at some point, but I can't switch it off. I simply grew up in a very rural very villagy place. I would prefer not to be called homophobic on that account.