What is being homophobic?

[The Wooster]

Ye olde double post.

 

[Kartoffelmos]

As a bi woman, I would be very uncomfortable showing any kind of affection for my girlfriend around some of the people in this thread. I'd like to say "get over it and don't be an asshole", but I'm afraid it'd fall on deaf ears.

Ditto as a gay man. I have lots of friends that are straight, and we kid about sex and stuff all the time without any hangups, they accept me 100%, but when I'm not around them, I might as well be in the closet. All the guys here may say that they're not homophobic or whatever, but something tells me otherwise.

Exactly.

People, don't worry so much about the 'homophobic' label and start worrying about what kind of signals you're sending. If a queer person feels uncomfortable around you because of some of the things you say, telling them "but I'm NOT homophobic!" isn't going to help.

Let me add a few pointers - not wanting to have sex with a person of the same gender doesn't make you homophobic. Framing the act itself (even when it doesn't involve you specifically) as 'disgusting', or 'wrong', or any other derogatory phrase, is homophobic. I don't eat tomatoes because I don't like the taste. I don't put down other tomato eaters by calling them disgusting. If you find yourself hating the idea of a gay couple being intimate with each other so much you go on threads like these and post long rants about how much it skeeves you out, you need to step back for a second, take a deep breath, and try to entertain the possibility of not letting it affect you so much. So that next time you see two guys holding hands in public, you can shrug off whatever discomfort you feel, and move on with your life. It shouldn't be that hard.

As a bi woman, I would be very uncomfortable showing any kind of affection for my girlfriend around some of the people in this thread. I'd like to say "get over it and don't be an asshole", but I'm afraid it'd fall on deaf ears.

Because they'd disapprove or because they'd break out the popcorn?

Both, is the short answer.

 

[101flyboy]

This is perfectly natural and acceptable.

It's perfectly natural to want to throw up when two men kiss?

No. It isn't perfectly natural. And it's not acceptable. At all. Especially considering that there are numerous people in this very thread who have no real issue with two guys kissing.

I don't see threads with gay men saying "I hate seeing a man and woman kiss. It's disgusting!". You don't see threads like that because there isn't any socially indoctrinated stigma against heterosexuality.

 

[Abomination]

As a bi woman, I would be very uncomfortable showing any kind of affection for my girlfriend around some of the people in this thread. I'd like to say "get over it and don't be an asshole", but I'm afraid it'd fall on deaf ears.

Ditto as a gay man. I have lots of friends that are straight, and we kid about sex and stuff all the time without any hangups, they accept me 100%, but when I'm not around them, I might as well be in the closet. All the guys here may say that they're not homophobic or whatever, but something tells me otherwise.

Exactly.

People, don't worry so much about the 'homophobic' label and start worrying about what kind of signals you're sending. If a queer person feels uncomfortable around you because of some of the things you say, telling them "but I'm NOT homophobic!" isn't going to help.

Let me add a few pointers - not wanting to have sex with a person of the same gender doesn't make you homophobic. Framing the act itself (even when it doesn't involve you specifically) as 'disgusting', or 'wrong', or any other derogatory phrase, is homophobic. I don't eat tomatoes because I don't like the taste. I don't put down other tomato eaters by calling them disgusting. If you find yourself hating the idea of a gay couple being intimate with each other so much you go on threads like these and post long rants about how much it skeeves you out, you need to step back for a second, take a deep breath, and try to entertain the possibility of not letting it affect you so much. So that next time you see two guys holding hands in public, you can shrug off whatever discomfort you feel, and move on with your life. It shouldn't be that hard.

So what you're saying is "Shut up and start liking tomatoes"? Because I am fine with the colour of tomatoes, I am fine with growing tomatoes, I am fine with the taste of tomatoes, I understand the nutrient benefit of tomatoes, I don't want to stop other people from being able to eat tomatoes but I don't like the texture of tomatoes and I get the shivers when I see someone bite into a tomato because it reminds me of the texture I don't like.

And that makes me homophobic.

 

[Kartoffelmos]

So what you're saying is "Shut up and start liking tomatoes"? Because I am fine with the colour of tomatoes, I am fine with growing tomatoes, I am fine with the taste of tomatoes, I understand the nutrient benefit of tomatoes, I don't want to stop other people from being able to eat tomatoes but I don't like the texture of tomatoes and I get the shivers when I see someone bite into a tomato because it reminds me of the texture I don't like.

And that makes me homophobic.

That's... not at all what I said? No need to get so defensive.

 

[101flyboy]

The problem is, you don't know what you're talking about, you're super defensive, and you're making categorical statements on something you have little understanding of. I'm not trying to be rude, but you know very little to nothing about evolution. So it's best if you didn't speak as if you did, because it's really a bad imprint on you.

Apparently stating that if someone doesn't have children means their personal genetic seed will not be passed on is an incorrect statement. Essentially I said "If you don't have children you don't have children." I was not going to get into the minefield that is evolutionary opinion and I most certainly did not speak of how HOMOSEXUALITY itself is passed from ancestors to child.

But you are determined that I am homophobic. You like to remind me every time despite not actually giving a clear and concise reason why a thought of revulsion that is also generated when one sees two ugly people performing the same thing in very specific circumstances, not acted upon, is homophobic. Do not say "I already explained it" because you did not. Explain it -again- in words that take into account the very specific circumstance and while you're at it realise that you're condemning someone as homophobic for thought crime.

No, actually, you've said homosexuality is unnatural. Let's not wash away what you've said. You said it's natural to feel disgusted towards homosexuality, because it's unnatural. Be honest about what you've said.

I never called you homophobic. I said you have issues with internalized homophobia. You continue to compare being unattractive to a sexual orientation. As for me condemning you for thought crime, I'm not condemning you for your irrational thoughts because we've all grown up in a homophobic society and have damage as a result. I'm condemning the fact you keep denying you have issues with internalized homophobia when double digit straight people in this very thread have said they have no issue with two men kissing. So again, you being straight has nothing to do with your revulsion. Stop making excuses for your internalized homophobia. Stop being defensive. Stop acting as if people are personally attacking you. Start being realistic.

 

[101flyboy]

Comparing human beings to tomatoes now. It's amusing at this point.

 

[TAGM]

This is a good post. Except for one thing............I do think it's in your control. Not necessarily the fact people are indoctrinated into being homophobia, but it can be eliminated. That is something that can be controlled and repression in itself is controlling it and oftentimes leads to a deletion of homophobia because you just because used to thinking a certain way and your thought processes working a certain way. But as long as you admit that homophobia is wrong and you don't harm non-heterosexual individuals and impose your homophobia onto them, then no-one can do anything about it and no-one would need to, because it's not an issue in the first place.

I suppose you have a point. (In fact, I was sort of debating in my own head if it really isn't in our control or not - I suppose I lent one way for the purposes of OP comfort or something) I guess it's less that it's not in our control, and more that having thoughts isn't something we really punish people over. The Thought Police don't exist yet, so as long as your actions don't end up being dictated by the bad thoughts, then it should be fine enough at least from a legal perspective.

 

[101flyboy]

This is a good post. Except for one thing............I do think it's in your control. Not necessarily the fact people are indoctrinated into being homophobia, but it can be eliminated. That is something that can be controlled and repression in itself is controlling it and oftentimes leads to a deletion of homophobia because you just because used to thinking a certain way and your thought processes working a certain way. But as long as you admit that homophobia is wrong and you don't harm non-heterosexual individuals and impose your homophobia onto them, then no-one can do anything about it and no-one would need to, because it's not an issue in the first place.

I suppose you have a point. (In fact, I was sort of debating in my own head if it really isn't in our control or not - I suppose I lent one way for the purposes of OP comfort or something) I guess it's less that it's not in our control, and more that having thoughts isn't something we really punish people over. The Thought Police don't exist yet, so as long as your actions don't end up being dictated by the bad thoughts, then it should be fine enough at least from a legal perspective.

Yes, exactly. No-one can force you to control your thoughts and no-one can force you to think a certain way if you don't choose to. Ultimately, the changes begin and end with yourself. The problem is that most people are resistant to change or don't care about changing something within themselves that is questionable/negative. They'll tell themselves they will change but don't. It takes word and most aren't willing to work at it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though. It's not *that* hard if you put in the effort.

 

[repeating integers]

It's not fair. To the minority here disgusted by homosexuality or saying homosexuality is unnatural, you're not going to get a free pass because you "have gay friends". If your gay friends knew what you truly thought of them, they wouldn't be your friends anymore. You're not accepting. You're tolerant. You're respectful. You do not accept same-sex love as OK, as normal, as natural. That is what being accepting is. Not panicking when two guys kiss. Not considering it disgusting. Slight discomfort I can understand because it's something you're not used to seeing in society on average, but slight discomfort isn't something that is going to cause a person to turn their heads and make dirty faces.

Dunno about you, but I consider it polite to look away when two people kiss. What else am I supposed to do, stare at their private little moment with each other? That's intrusive. I find it hard to believe a gay couple would be offended by people so much as looking away when they kiss.

'Course, making a disgusted face or noise is out of line (if not entirely a controllable reaction with some), but I think you're taking it a bit too far here.

 

[101flyboy]

It's not fair. To the minority here disgusted by homosexuality or saying homosexuality is unnatural, you're not going to get a free pass because you "have gay friends". If your gay friends knew what you truly thought of them, they wouldn't be your friends anymore. You're not accepting. You're tolerant. You're respectful. You do not accept same-sex love as OK, as normal, as natural. That is what being accepting is. Not panicking when two guys kiss. Not considering it disgusting. Slight discomfort I can understand because it's something you're not used to seeing in society on average, but slight discomfort isn't something that is going to cause a person to turn their heads and make dirty faces.

Dunno about you, but I consider it polite to look away when two people kiss. What else am I supposed to do, stare at their private little moment with each other? That's intrusive. I find it hard to believe a gay couple would be offended by people so much as looking away when they kiss.

'Course, making a disgusted face or noise is out of line (if not entirely a controllable reaction with some), but I think you're taking it a bit too far here.

It may seem I'm taking it a bit far, but I will explain. When you see two people kissing, you're not going to just stare at them, of course. But there is a difference between diverting your eyes as to not focus on the two people kissing or looking down, using your phone or blackberry and zoning out......and then going out of your way to turn your head. Turning your head, turning your back away from two people kissing, is a pretty forward thing. It's an aggressive thing to do. It's not a "I don't want to focus on you kissing" or "I don't want to be rude" action. It's a "I don't want to fucking see this" action.

There is a big difference. It may appear to be nitpicking but for the couple kissing, the difference between these acts are obvious.

I'm definitely not saying to stare, but you can simply not focus on the couple kissing or self-focus without making it a point to look away, because it's noticeable. Simply diverting your eyes or focusing inward isn't noticeable.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards, discrimination/hatred of homosexuality/homosexuals.

The problem is with this flawed definition - fear does not always mean hatred and vice versa. For example, I hate child molesters. But damn, I don't fear them. Like, at all. Not in the slightest.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

I think homos are disgusting and should seek help, but I have no choice to tolerate or avert my eyes at something I want unseen. Also, adoption by them makes me sick to the stomach.

It's sad that whenever people talk about finding a cure or a gene it's classified as homophobia. Judging by the amount of suicide in homos, one would think a cure would be welcome, or maybe some people like to do things nature intended.

Anyway, lesbians are sexy but I too think it's wrong, I'm openly hypocrite in that respect.

A couple making out in public is uncomfortable anyway, regardless of who it is, I have been fortunate enough to not catch men kissing though.

I actually feel similar. This is due to the fact that homosexuality is, as far as we learned, biologically a mutation, anomaly*. One that goes against one of the core traits of our species - reproduction. Homos are disgusting to me in a way cannibals, necrophiliacs, serial killers and idea of walking corpses are disgusting. It all goes against something that is required for our species normal survival - not eating each other, not mindlessly killing each other, reproducing. And staying dead when you die. Naturally, all those things happen, except for zombie thing that is, as do plague and death by being eaten by a bear. Doesn't mean you shouldn't want to stop this.
That said, I never considered lesbians sexy. That is, I love pretty girls, sure, but two girls kissing each other feels weird. Not revolting though, no, just uncomfortable.

Agreed about adoption. Not allowed in my country thankfully.

*Some people insist it's all in the psychics. And is curable. Doubt it, I thought genetic explanation was proved to be real.

 

[101flyboy]

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards, discrimination/hatred of homosexuality/homosexuals.

The problem is with this flawed definition - fear does not always mean hatred and vice versa. For example, I hate child molesters. But damn, I don't fear them. Like, at all. Not in the slightest.

The problem isn't with the definition. You don't have to necessarily be scared of gay people to be homophobic. It doesn't mean you run away from gay people when you see them. Fear in this respect is more of a mistrusting, threatening thing.

BTW, sex isn't solely to procreate and homosexuals are not heterosexuals. So comparing homosexuality and heterosexuality is baseless.

 

[101flyboy]

The good thing about this thread is it's made it pretty clear that the only reason people feel repelled by same-sex intimacy is that they find it unnatural. So instead of the average excuses made for such behavior, at least we can see it for what it is and realize that negativity surrounding the concept homosexuality is VERY real.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

The good thing about this thread is it's made it pretty clear that the only reason people feel repelled by same-sex intimacy is that they find it unnatural. So instead of the average excuses made for such behavior, at least we can see it for what it is and realize that negativity surrounding the concept homosexuality is VERY real.

That has always been the case and I doubt anybody had a different opinion on where homophobia originates ;d It's pointless to BLAME them for anything though, because that isn't a realization they themselves reached after much internal deliberation. It is an opinion that has been driven into them and constantly reinforced by the outside world. We can see it at work even now for the opposite - now homophobia is seen as wrong, but that too didn't come from themselves, but because society is growing up a bit and is more accepting in general. That worries me though, because it shows a lack of personal thought and a sheep mentality on a massive scale (not surprising anybody there).

WE can't really convince them that homosexuality is natural no matter what evidence we come up with, because most people are close-minded and refuse to change their stance even when they are proven wrong. The only thing we can do is teach acceptance in the younger generations and in time I hope all pointless hate and fear is going to dissipate. We are on the right track though.

 

[afroebob]

It sounds more like a sexual repulsion than a moral or ethical one. On a sexual level you are attracted to women but repulsed by men and as such you are repulsed when two men kiss but attracted when two women kiss. As such I wouldn't call it homophobic.

 

[Orinon]

Now I'm pretty sure everything I say has been said by others, but I',m going to say it anyways.
First of all, it's good that your not biased agiasnt gays, normally when i see a homophobic person i tell them to grow up.
My reason for this is simply I beleive these people are only complaining because they're insecure abotu themself. as a saying goes, No one is that homophobic without being in the closet.
Though the idea of being grossed ou by two gay guys but being aroused by lesbians, Your overthinking it.
As a straight guy I'm attracted to girls, therefore a girl doing sexual acts causes arousal so seeing two girls being sexual yeah that excites me. To be honest I tend to look away when I see a guy and girl kissing in public, this is likely for several reasons, but in general it's a sort of privacy thing. however seeing two guys yes it might seem unpleasant because your not interested in guys. I could be alone on this but I really don;t need to know how much sex any of my friends are having even girls.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

snip

Homophobia is somewhat of a misnomer.

It seems like the word is intended to make homosexual hatred the same thing as homosexual discomfort.

One is scummy and fucked up, and the other is just a normal reaction to any sort of deviant sexual behavior that doesn't turn you on.

My fetishes seem normal to me, but other people's will always kind of make me feel weird.

But if you say homophobia is normal for straight people, you start a fucking riot.

This is what I mean when I say that sexuality terminology is pretty much geared to make everyone else look like an asshole. It's a fucked up symptom of something I like to call insane "overactivism".

The loudest homosexual activists have made a shitload of progress backward for homosexuality by being obnoxious, and people like the WBC are making a shitload of progress forward for them by being obnoxious.

Ironic.

This is perfectly natural and acceptable.

It's perfectly natural to want to throw up when two men kiss?

No. It isn't perfectly natural. And it's not acceptable. At all. Especially considering that there are numerous people in this very thread who have no real issue with two guys kissing.

I don't see threads with gay men saying "I hate seeing a man and woman kiss. It's disgusting!". You don't see threads like that because there isn't any socially indoctrinated stigma against heterosexuality.

You've never heard a gay man say he thinks heterosexuality is gross?

You must not know a lot of gay men, lol.

I know gay men who think vagina is gross is general. I know gay men who think boobs are ugly fat bubbles. I know straight men who think feet are disgusting and straight men who like to fantasize about their sisters. I know gay and straight men and women who like to pretend that they are raping their partner in bed.

Like I said before, discomfort is a NORMAL reaction to any sort of deviant sexual behavior that doesn't turn you on.

 

[101flyboy]

Wow. We've now gone from homosexuality being unnatural, to homosexuality being a deviant fetish.

It's like we've stepped into Free Republic. Really, really pathetic. It's somewhat amusing, still. Solely because I want to see how far this thread devolves before being closed.