What is communism?

[Wushu Panda]

I'm not posting this to find out what communism is but rather to find out how communism is percieved, especially by americans who generally seem to have a pretty skewed idea about it.

I'm doing some research on cultural perspectives for an assignment in a course on organization analysis, and for this I'd like to get a general idea about what people think about communism in general and if at all possible the ideals on which communism was founded.

My basis for the statement that americans seem to have a skewed idea about it is really years of listening to american popculture but can be examplified by the phase "accuse them of being communists" which has a premise that clashes with absolutely everything I know about the subject. I dont wish to elaborate on this because I'd rather not bias any responses.

Also before you ask I'm from Denmark, and to the best of my knowledge there has never been a hugely successful communist party in government here.

I'm not really looking for a debate on the pros and cons of communism (though i am open for that debate as well) which is the reason why I'm not posting this in the religion and politics board.

Edit: To clarify I'd like input from absolutely anyone willing to give it.

The reason Americans have such a skewed perception of Communism is from all the propaganda back in the day. They were rough times and like any other war era governments and controlling parties threw out as many posters inspiring people to follow their homeland and hate the opposition. Lies are spread and exaggeration is an understatement.

There are different teachings on Communism, I am no expert on any of them. I do think that on paper Communism looks good. Distribution based on need and would prevent such disasters as Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. However, when put into effect I haven't known many leaders to be selfless or holding intentions for anyone but themselves. And this is where the problems start. The person in charge screwing over everyone else. Many forms of government have the same problem, but Communism has stood as having a bad track record.

I hope my small input has helped in any way. I don't hate Communism itself, just the people who take power and abuse the position.

 

[thespyisdead]

I recently saw a documentation of a journalist crew that drove along the road that goes right through Russia, a transsiberian for cars if you will (the road is hardly finished, indeed, it is still a mud track in some places). Along the way they kept stopping at villages that were filled with people who lived through the USSR time.

All of them said the same thing, but one in particular stuck with me. It was an old woman, close to 80 and probably close to death. She seemed kind, but anyhow, im going to quote her here: "Back in the USSR days, we always had work. We always had work, we always had enough food, we always had a decent standard of living. We had no riches, no luxuries and no means of attaining them; but we always got what we needed and were happy. Now those days are gone. People here are close to struggling to find the funds to eat. There is no work. We have a road leading through the country, we have open borders, but we do not have a good standard of living, our houses are falling together, our children are moving away to cities only to live in poverty as we do here. Chinese business men and women come here and build restaurants and hotels and drive bys, but we cannot afford to eat in these restaurants, we cannot afford a car to drive anywhere and even if we could we could not afford the hotel."

It was sad. Theres no knowing for sure if the majority of these people were just sugar coating the USSR days; lets not forget the food shortages that occurred there, but most of these villages and towns looked legitimately worse off while 2 hours drive down the road the top 5% were partying in a disco built by a chinese business woman expanding to Russia. It hit me pretty hard. But thats the nature of capitalism, a few thousand people rise to heaven while the rest get stuck in the mud, unable to move forward or backward.

you are right... it is very sad. especially since i have a grandmother and great-gandmother(you heard me, who i might add lived through the siege of Leningrad) living in St. petersburg area. from what i understand, they get 2000 roubles a month, if even that, each... try to live on that. you would never last, and yet my grandmothers manage. i guess they have gotten used to the way things are.


i also understand, that there is a large increase of homeless people in big cities, because they move to the big cities from the backwater towns, only to find themselves jobless.

another reason people might have resentment toward the current situation, are the oligarchs, who, i have the feeling, are pulling the stings with that fat wads of cash

 

[Patshiv]

Hang on a second, are you using The Escapist as a sampling frame for the case selection for your research assigment?

Hell at this rate i might just let the escapist be my case for this assignment, cultural perspectives are just as dependant on the context in which something is discussed as who is discussing it.

 

[AperioContra]

Do understand that this urge to consume is a quite modern occurence. Only is recent years have enough people (the rise of the middle class) had spare money to spend on non-essential goods. Look at many small tribes that have little contact with the "modern" world; many live is a somewhat communistic manner and little concern for consumerism.

First, I don't pretend to know Orwell's political philosophy, so I don't know If I can argue with you on that. However, the idea that the urge to consume is a modern invention is ignoring history. While the idea of the lower class having the ability to consume is quite modern, the human ambition to have more than his neighbor can be tracked back to the centuries. Publilius Syrus said " Poverty is in want of much, but avarice of everything." Indicating that avarice (The want for more) was present even 2100 years ago. Without human avarice Deuteronomy would be one sin short and the original aristocrats and conquerors would have been content with what they have. What a wonderful world would exist if avarice was simply recent, but we can see signs of it.

I have to say, it's altruistic to believe that avarice in man is relatively new, I would argue that it is only in recent years (the last hundred) that the lower classes have been able to attain such greed.

As to your last point, this may shock you, but I totally agree. We should aspire toward socialism. However I would say that human beings have a lot of growing to do before that could become a reality. But maybe after I perfect that warp drive and make first contact with the Vulcons, human beings might unite finally, and realize there is more than our personal greed.

 

[mrhateful]

Communism in it's pure form can't exist because people are too stupid to accept it. Our nature wouldn't allow such a system to last long because there will always be people who want to have more than others, who want money and power. Even though in the end none of that shit matter. This is what real communism should look like. Not the Russian and Chinese version, but this:

You are very much correct that is the ideology of communism, as a libertarian I think it is extremely arrogant to say it is because people are stupid that we can't have a grandiose future. I would argue that the very concept of communism is flawed at its core and that is why it doesn't work. Think about it for a second, lets say nobody wanted more things, that means no body wants cars aka cars never gets made because there is no meaning to them since no one wants them, but before that we wouldn't even have people that could draw or write since no one wants things and therefor no one wants books to read and enjoy. And what you will end up with are people that only gathers just enough to live and no technological advancements. What drives us is our will to ease and improve our lives. Also in the next gen clip you show they talk very highly about how evolve they have become and they no longer seek power or possessions yet they constantly do concerts or interact in their own holo movies using the holo deck, in other words they are elitists that think highly of themselves.

PS: I love Next generation my favourite show ever.

 

[mrhateful]

Communism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

no.... Libertarianism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

Rights not pay! It means that people who are struggling money wise will get the help they need. It also means that everyone is fed, sheltered, entertained and gets a vote.

But thats a contradiction because you give rights to "people who are struggling money wise" as they get the right to take the money from some one else, who then loose his rights to keep what he earns.

 

[bastardman25]

No. It won't work because people are too selfish to allow it to work. I'm not saying we are the embodiment of greed. But people like owning things. People like being able to say, "That's my big plasma screen tv," "that's my iphone 4," "that's my porn stash." People don't like having to share everything, and I agree. Why should I have to allow other people use of my living space, entertainment things, food, etc? I hate other people and if they want my shit, they can piss off because I worked hard for this stuff and I don't like sharing.

"Communism deprives no man of the ability to appropriate the fruits of his labour. The only thing it deprives him of is the ability to enslave others by means of such appropriations."
You CAN have a big TV, you CAN have a car, you CAN have a massive porn stash, what you can't do is buy up land, build factories/call centres/farms/ whatever and expect to take a slice of the profit from the labour of the people who work there.

 

[Carboncrown]

100% taxes.

Notin' mutch more to it... exept human inability to properly implement it, which is a tad more complicated.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

The equal distribution of power and wealth among the people with a gouvernment of collective leadership.

 

[hermes]

Communism is a economical/cultural system which granted equality as the most important value of a society.

The main problem with communism is that it collides with some basic human nature (greed, envy, lust and gluttony), and the mere fact that people are not equal. Because it basically denies the existence of human ambitions and "capital sins", its considered a utopian theory. Risking a politically incorrect opinion here, I am not so presumptuous to believe I am an equal to Einstein, not as modest to believe someone that is too lazy to work is an equal to me.

Because it forces equality (equality has to be forced, since its not a natural state of any other social specie in nature), its main interest (even in theory) is to balance everyone... That means people are raised/lowered to a level (which some would call mediocrity).

 

[hermes]

Communism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

no.... Libertarianism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

Actually, you are both right, since Communism and Libertarianism are not opposites, because Libertarianism is not an economic system.
More specifically, the difference is in which rights are equal. Communism dictates that every person has equal rights and the right to be equals. That means two people, regardless of their profession, education, inheritance or skill are equal in almost every way. Libertarianism dictates that, in a society where people has equal social rights, a balance will be found were more capable people are on top of less capable people, but nothing forces those rights, even on the initial conditions.

 

[mrhateful]

-snip-

Please read on to where I explain why communism doesn't give equal rights, but rather make people equal which is not the same thing.

 

[penguindude42]

These points will tell you:

Communism: "He gets a cookie, she gets a cookie, this superintelligent chimp gets a cookie, and these creepy twins get two halves of one cookie."

Capitalism: "Every boy gets 2 bananas, the class chimp gets 1 banana, and the girls get NO bananas!"

Neofeudalism: "Want something? Make it yourself, or buy/steal it from someone who already has it!"

I am "proudly" Canadian, by the way.

~TOM demands your respectitude, simian filth!

 

[ZydrateDealer]

Communism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

no.... Libertarianism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights.

Rights not pay! It means that people who are struggling money wise will get the help they need. It also means that everyone is fed, sheltered, entertained and gets a vote.

But thats a contradiction because you give rights to "people who are struggling money wise" as they get the right to take the money from some one else, who then loose his rights to keep what he earns.

I see you're point but what I meant is if you're collecting taxes from everyone and distributing the country's collective wealth accordingly then those who have no money are a priority. I did not mean gather the proles and stamp on the faces of businessmen until they cough up all their money. See this is why communism is viewed negatively people think communists wanna take your money and give it all to homeless people and make you just as destitute while keeping you working the same high stress job. Taxes would be spent on bettering people's awful terrible lives, people would still keep what they earn! There isn't a contradiction a contradiction would be Stalin's Russia. Sure I was ambiguous about where the funding would come from but only because I thought that TAXES would have been obvious. Isn't it a bit weird that Capitalists will tell you how communism will bleed you dry? Considering how the top Capitalists don't pay taxes and seem to be controlling the companies that take your money on a regular basis it's safe to say that you might be being misinformed.

Are there better ideas out there than communism? Well yeah because it's really hard to implement a communist government. Why's it hard...humans are corruptible; but there are still communists or to give them the name they use today out of fear of being hated Liberals, and they'll always keep fighting for you're rights no matter how many times they're screwed over by someone who wants are bigger paycheck.

 

[Firstmark_Bannor]

As a member of the CPUSA America's communist party. The world needs Communism and Communism needs a new world. I wholeheartedly believe a communist state could be achieved, but the measures required will never happen. You would have to raise the new comrades in isolation from everything else teach them only communist ideals, the list goes on and on. While it would be a great thing and something i could support, I'm probaly about the only one.

 

[LordLundar]

To start off with, Communism isn't a political system, it's an economic one. The polar opposite of Communism is Capitalism. Socialism is the political equivalent to communism, but no country in the world has ever come close to the purest definition of it, as it centers around the public working for the country, as opposed to the opposite. (and no, the Soviet Union was not a Socialist country, neither is China. Both are dictatorships)

That said, What communism means is an equal distribution of wealth and resources amongst all the population, regardless of social or political standing. At it's purest form, it would work perfectly, as everyone would contribute equally and receive equally. In practice however it fails, because such a system requires that the entirety of the public is willing to retain their personal status and not try for their own purpose. Considering that it's unlikely even in a small scale, it renders communism inherently flawed.

The purest definition of Capitalism would fail in much the same way, as it's goals are personal success at the expense of all others. Left unchecked, you would find a situation akin to what you see in Highlander. (aka there can be only one) Why capitalism succeeds more than communism is because capitalism focuses more on the selfish nature of mankind while communism relies on working together.

 

[mrhateful]

I see you're point but what I meant is if you're collecting taxes from everyone and distributing the country's collective wealth accordingly then those who have no money are a priority.

This is equivalent to what I said, it doesn't matter if its a government or all people in a giant group no matter what, it boils down to "people earning money" loosing their right to keep them, and "people not earning money" gains a right to take them.

Sure I was ambiguous about where the funding would come from but only because I thought that TAXES would have been obvious. Isn't it a bit weird that Capitalists will tell you how communism will bleed you dry? Considering how the top Capitalists don't pay taxes and seem to be controlling the companies that take your money on a regular basis it's safe to say that you might be being misinformed.

Two things: First of big companies manipulation governments are not a capitalist system and is to the benefit of none except the companies and the politicians. For instance: for smaller businesses and up starts one of the biggest cost is servicing government regulation, for a big company servicing regulations is not that big a cost to them, so by advocating more regulations they can ensure competition is removed.

Secondly
Companies cannot take your money, they can only try to convince you to buy their products. The idea is behind freedom is that you are free to make choices of our own and you can thus choose whether or not you want to buy a product.

Are there better ideas out there than communism? Well yeah because it's really hard to implement a communist government. Why's it hard...humans are corruptible; but there are still communists or to give them the name they use today out of fear of being hated Liberals, and they'll always keep fighting for you're rights no matter how many times they're screwed over by someone who wants are bigger paycheck.

I Keep hearing this arguments that the problem with communism is that humans are greedy and if they would just stop being that then all would be better. Basically it doesn't work that way, all choses humans make are swayed by two factors greed and fear.

For instance if you see a girl you like your greed motivates you to get her, but your fear stops you from looking like a fool. So if you removed greed then no one would get any girls and then the race would become extinct.

Also I also keep hearing people say that the 2008 financial crisis was caused by greed running ramped. This statement is false as it was, all fear being removed by the FED(an arm of the government) lowering interest rates to the lowest they've been in the last 80 years, ensuring everyone could take out huge loans.

 

[Biodeamon]

communism was a good idea mucked up by bad people.

In it's basic form it was a way of treating everybody equally but people, being people, always want more. and so they completely dirtied the name of socialist from a equality gouverment to a dream crushing dictatorship. The terrible leaders of most of the communist parties of the world didn't help improve their pub;ic relations either.

in short, a gouverment that only wqorks if everybody will work entirely together. and i hate to a downer but, humans aren't the best team players.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Its a system that will never work because most people are to stupid to see that it could work.

Rather ironic.

Would you care to explain this? As of my understanding the monopolization of power by the vanguard party always results in an autocracy as the absence of an economic incentive to perform well leads to shortages which the government is unable to respond to by other means than violence and terror.

AHHHH! MAN USE BIG WORDS! HURT BRAIN!

OT: The government controls the economy and distributes profits as they see fit. It's meant to get rid of the hierarchical system of economy where the rich rule and the poor suffer, but all it does is transfer that same corrupting power to government officials.

This sums it up pretty well:

 

[bastardman25]

might be a ridiculous suggestion, but people could perhaps RTFM

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

you wouldn't after all even think of typing off responses to a thread about quantum mechanics with bugger all understanding of the subject.

some people are talking like capitalism has been going on forever and is the only possible social foundation, it isn't, its only about 300 years old and it came about through revolution against monarchism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByOKZmQ72m4

here's the entirely watchable mark steel talking about Marx and Marxism in a less boring dry academic way.