ZiggyE said:
Mikeyfell said:
Clannad was a tragedy (Don't say it wasn't)
It's a story about the importance of family and about moving on. It isn't a tragedy. If it was a tragedy then Okazaki wouldn't have gone about redeeming himself in the last five episodes, as a tragedy is a story that shows a fall from grace due to the actions of the protagonist, who is usually of high status. If anything, Clannad is a story about redemption, not tragedy.
I have a problem with this sentiment and I always have. If Clannad was never supposed to be a tragedy the writers are very bad at their job. People saying that holds just about as much credibility as someone saying Human Centipede is supposed to be a feel good comedy.
Okazaki doesn't want to be happy, which is why all of his actions have no positive effect on his life whether it's wearing himself out to fix up the violin girl's yard, or helping Fuuko, giving up on his promotion as soon as his dad got arrested, or most of all marrying a girl who everyone knew was going to die.
When I watched the series Tomoya's character was deep enough for me to believe these actions stemmed from his own self-destructiveness. Especially that one part of After Story after Nagisa gets pregnant and Sanae pretty much strait up tells him that She's not going to survive the pregnancy, and if he can't live with that he should probably say something (wink wink nudge nudge). If you expect me to believe that he wasn't deliberately trying to self district for the entirety of the series than his character becomes shallow stupid and unlikeable. He's can't allow himself to be happy for some reason, but he's still a good guy at heart so he's decided that he's going to spend his life making his friends happy personal costs be dammed. It was in those last episodes after he met Ushio that he decided that he was going to try to be happy. But he built up such a self destructive back catalog of bad karma that he couldn't out run it by one last minute decision. Ushio was the result of his self destructiveness. She had to die for him to fully be able to move on and he couldn't accept that so he died trying to save her. He learned what he did, he grew as a person but in the end he remained true to himself, his self destructing self.And the last episode is the story rewarding his last ditch decision to be happy by removing all the experience lead to him to his decision in the first place. He went back in time and got his reward before he did the thing he's getting rewarded for. So they effectively retconed the most significant moment of character growth I've ever seen. That's why the end sucks, it doesn't suck because Tomoya gets to be happy.
And secondly if Clannad was supposed to be about redemption they would have showed him fall into his depression rather than skip strait to him being accustomed to his depression.
this was also driven home by the "In Another World" episodes that showed that he would have been much happier in the long run if he had fallen for one of the girls who was more physically and emotionally stable.)
Except that isn't the purpose of the Another World OVA stories at all. The Another World stories are adaptations of arcs from the Visual Novel where the romancing of the girl in the arc is important to plot of the arc and therefore wouldn't fit into Nagisa's arc (unlike Kotomi's and Fuko's, where romance doesn't play a major part and isn't a factor in the progression of the arc and thus can be included in the main story while retaining Nagisa's role as the main heroine). It also further shows us the existence of multiple worlds and the collection of the orbs of light, which are both important plot devices in both the visual novel and the anime.
I never actually read the Manga, so let me get this strait. Those episodes are actually canonical in the Manga? There is actually part of the main story where he falls for Kyou and Tomoyo? I never got that impression from watching the series.
Clannad never set up to be a tragedy, it lacks all the typical archetypes of a tragedy. It is clearly a redemption story, our protagonist starts off as a delinquent and the story is about him rebuilding his life and learning the importance of love, family, friendship and change. It is not a tragedy, not at all.
Yes Clannad is not an archetypical tragedy. that's why it's so good. But if you're trying to convince me Clannad isn't a tragedy why not also try and convince me that Star Wars isn't a SiFi film.