What?s Wrong with Mass Effect 2?

[CalPal]

After the fiasco that's DA2, I'm not really looking forward to much from EA-Bioware any more.

I'll certainly keep an eye on ME3, as I liked the previous two, but my expectations are pretty low.

Btw, ME-1 had more than a few huge, gaping plot holes, also. I was so stunned by the cinematics I didn't care, really. Despite Bioware trying to make it into one, it's not a movie, it's a video game. I'm a lot more forgiving concerning story in games than I am movies, I suppose.

It's not like they hired Harlan Ellison or John Brunner to write their story (but they should have).

... Really? You - you DO realize that ME1 has plot-holes because - surprise - it's just the beginning of the series, right? The Mass Effect series was designed from beginning to end to be a trilogy.

There are times when I truly hate the way things are taking when it comes to story writing in general. When things are being deliberately dumbed down and not enough attention is given to present different points of view for the sake of making big money.

But then I read an article like this to its conclusion to be reminded that if the overtly-rational, stuck up their own arses 'quality press' had its way...things would be JUST as bad if not worse.

I wish you much glorious vim alongside your rage Shamus. Because while you scream and shout, I will be enjoying Mass Effect 3 along with its prequels and their story. Bioware has its style of writing and it is not one that relies on overthinking every tiny little detail, such as your idol Tolkien did with his world. Instead it does something better - it confronts and presents different points of views through its characters and in a setting that ultimately servers to present their points of view within the world.

But I doubt you'll ever think on how rare such stories truly are in your life ever or how many of your ilk prefer to try and shout at how 'they make no sense therefore they must be bad'. Because you and a tiny fraction of the population happen to enjoy cold rationality, you think that every story should adhere to it. Whereas the best stories are, in fact, and always will be the ones that evoke something within the one getting to experience them.

I sincerely hope they continue to evoke such unbridled fury in you and all your kind. Because that means I will very likely love them immensely.

How is this in any way 'raging' or 'unbridled fury'? Give me a single quote from the article which conveys such a tone. I think you're simply attempting to discredit his argument by exaggerating his dislike for the game, and conveniently ignoring the part where he says how despite these flaws he still found it very good.

It's a sad world where people can't make any kind of criticism without being railed upon for being 'too negative'.

This editor completely misses some of the details in ME2 that actually EXPLAIN everything he questioned. It's too damn long a list to write out and give specific details and arguments, and Pyrokinesis has already listed such examples, so yeah, go ahead and read that. We'll wait.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Ok, I was going to plan a big post, but others made my points clear. But I still have to say something.

I'm absolutely appalled at the, for lack of a better term, outright ignorance in the comments thread and, even worse, the article itself.

Blatant disregard for details, selective amnesia about certain plainly stated facts in game, twisting of details to make yours seem right...

It's bullshit is what it is.

This is the last time I read any of your articles. Yahtzee ignores details all the times when he goes over stories. We only need one of him.

At least he can be funny.

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

 

[Souplex]

(It's a gameplay thing as destroying the base makes him want to kill you in 3 so Cerberus is an enemy, while giving him the tech will cause him to be indoctrinated by it so Cerberus can be an enemy as it has been announced that Cerberus is an enemy and The Illusive Man wants you dead in 3.)

And this is the thing about a lot of RPGs - lately Bioware has been a particular offender - that truly pisses me off. There is no choice in this decision. Either he is the antagonist, or he is the antagonist. While yes, requiring otherwise would force Bioware to basically make two games - one with cerberus allied with you, and another with them against you - but as is, you're gutting any feeling of agency from the game. It's like the decision to save or destroy the Rachni in ME1: the game tells you there's a difference. An NPC in ME2 tells you there was a difference. But there is never actually any hard change to gameplay that results from it.

If you're going to give the player a choice, then make sure they actually have a choice. Nothing pisses me off more in a game than making a decision, only to have the game say "Well screw you, you're going to play the game the way we want you and you're going to like it."

That's actually a result of voice acting and better graphics. That's the price we pay for "Progress". That's why DA: O is better than DAII. (Although it's also better from a gameplay perspective, a writing perspective, a character perspective, a general design perspective, ane very other perspective)

 

[Shadow Geo]

Ok, I was going to plan a big post, but others made my points clear. But I still have to say something.

I'm absolutely appalled at the, for lack of a better term, outright ignorance in the comments thread and, even worse, the article itself.

Blatant disregard for details, selective amnesia about certain plainly stated facts in game, twisting of details to make your seem right...

It's bullshit is what it is.

This is the last time I read any of your articles. Yahtzee ignores details all the times when he goes over stories. We only need one of him.

At least he can be funny.

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

That is exactly how I feel about all of this.

 

[fierydemise]

Because adding in an organization like such would be a blatant shoehorning of the universe with another vague organization like Cerberus that wouldn't really have any point to being there save to.. ehm, fill Mass Effect 2's plot? What is worse? Shoehorning and screwing around with established canon, or using material already there in established canon, and have you make morally ambiguous choices that you can't determine to be truly good or bad for the universe itself without the events of Mass Effect 3 coming into the picture later on?

Its a good thing the ME universe already has another pro-human organization all ready to go. Terra Firma. Just do a quick find and replace through the script change Cerberus into Terra Firma and we're good to go. Making it Terra Firma instead of Cerberus solves about 50% of the major plot holes in the game, there are still some issues like the mission to nowhere but one little change would do a lot.

 

[fierydemise]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

Because criticism is good. When you are working on a project the least useful piece of feedback is, its good. For gaming as a medium to move forward into the wonderful things it has in store it needs criticism, it needs to know that X worked, Y didn't work as well and Z can go die in a fire.

Yes ME2 is a great game, some of the companion quests are pure gold, the combat is tighter and the mission hubs feel more alive but if the above is enough to get critical GOTY acclaim then why bother innovating or improving? Criticism is the way we gamers keep the companies honest and push them to make better and better games.

 

[Duskflamer]

A scientific organization which is shown to be extremely smart yet makes tons of stupid decisions in the name of science and tests for the sake of testing.

If there is one thing I have gained from this article it is that Cerberus is just the Aperture Science of the ME universe.

 

[ZeroMachine]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

Because criticism is good. When you are working on a project the least useful piece of feedback is, its good. For gaming as a medium to move forward into the wonderful things it has in store it needs criticism, it needs to know that X worked, Y didn't work as well and Z can go die in a fire.

Yes ME2 is a great game, some of the companion quests are pure gold, the combat is tighter and the mission hubs feel more alive but if the above is enough to get critical GOTY acclaim then why bother innovating or improving? Criticism is the way we gamers keep the companies honest and push them to make better and better games.

Perhaps I should have worded it better: What I see is beyond criticism. People saying things that aren't true, tearing things to pieces without stating what's good about it.

If all you say is negative, then you're doing nothing. People need to also see what was done right.

Not to mention the fact that far too many people hate things because of things that happened previously. Many times for things that make no sense. And they can't even be civil about it.

EA did it? IT SUCKS!

Mass Effect 3? IT'LL BE BAD BECAUSE OF 2! Also, just look at Dragon Age 2! THAT SUCKED, SO EVERYTHING NEW BIOWARE WILL DO WILL SUCK! And why did it suck? EA!

It's bullshit. It's pathetic. And I'm fucking sick of it.

EDIT: This isn't targeted at you or even Shamus. What I wanted to say to Shamus was before the edit. It's just me venting about how sick I am of today's gamer's mindset. It pisses me off.

 

[Kahunaburger]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

Because criticism is good. When you are working on a project the least useful piece of feedback is, its good. For gaming as a medium to move forward into the wonderful things it has in store it needs criticism, it needs to know that X worked, Y didn't work as well and Z can go die in a fire.

Yes ME2 is a great game, some of the companion quests are pure gold, the combat is tighter and the mission hubs feel more alive but if the above is enough to get critical GOTY acclaim then why bother innovating or improving? Criticism is the way we gamers keep the companies honest and push them to make better and better games.

Perhaps I should have worded it better: What I see is beyond criticism. People saying things that aren't true, tearing things to pieces without stating what's good about it.

If all you say is negative, then you're doing nothing. People need to also see what was done right.

Not to mention the fact that far too many people hate things because of things that happened previously. Many times for things that make no sense. And they can't even be civil about it.

EA did it? IT SUCKS!

Mass Effect 3? IT'LL BE BAD BECAUSE OF 2! Also, just look at Dragon Age 2! THAT SUCKED, SO EVERYTHING NEW BIOWARE WILL DO WILL SUCK! And why did it suck? EA!

It's bullshit. It's pathetic. And I'm fucking sick of it.

If you read the comment above, you will see that fierydemise is saying positive things about Mass Effect 2. Positive criticism that I and others who criticize elements of the game will happily echo. I don't think you'll find many out there who will say that Mass Effect 2 is universally terrible, because it isn't. It's on balance a good but flawed game.

 

[ZeroMachine]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.

And I swear, no one quote me and say "IT'S BECAUSE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER HURDURHERPDERP". Games are getting better.

Because criticism is good. When you are working on a project the least useful piece of feedback is, its good. For gaming as a medium to move forward into the wonderful things it has in store it needs criticism, it needs to know that X worked, Y didn't work as well and Z can go die in a fire.

Yes ME2 is a great game, some of the companion quests are pure gold, the combat is tighter and the mission hubs feel more alive but if the above is enough to get critical GOTY acclaim then why bother innovating or improving? Criticism is the way we gamers keep the companies honest and push them to make better and better games.

Perhaps I should have worded it better: What I see is beyond criticism. People saying things that aren't true, tearing things to pieces without stating what's good about it.

If all you say is negative, then you're doing nothing. People need to also see what was done right.

Not to mention the fact that far too many people hate things because of things that happened previously. Many times for things that make no sense. And they can't even be civil about it.

EA did it? IT SUCKS!

Mass Effect 3? IT'LL BE BAD BECAUSE OF 2! Also, just look at Dragon Age 2! THAT SUCKED, SO EVERYTHING NEW BIOWARE WILL DO WILL SUCK! And why did it suck? EA!

It's bullshit. It's pathetic. And I'm fucking sick of it.

If you read the comment above, you will see that fierydemise is saying positive things about Mass Effect 2. Positive criticism that I and others who criticize elements of the game will happily echo. I don't think you'll find many out there who will say that Mass Effect 2 is universally terrible, because it isn't. It's on balance a good but flawed game.

That's why I edited my post, take a look.

 

[fierydemise]

Perhaps I should have worded it better: What I see is beyond criticism. People saying things that aren't true, tearing things to pieces without stating what's good about it.

If all you say is negative, then you're doing nothing. People need to also see what was done right.

Not to mention the fact that far too many people hate things because of things that happened previously. Many times for things that make no sense. And they can't even be civil about it.

EA did it? IT SUCKS!

Mass Effect 3? IT'LL BE BAD BECAUSE OF 2! Also, just look at Dragon Age 2! THAT SUCKED, SO EVERYTHING NEW BIOWARE WILL DO WILL SUCK! And why did it suck? EA!

It's bullshit. It's pathetic. And I'm fucking sick of it.

Should every time I mention a fault in a game I have to mention a good thing about it too? Can I say that I thought UT2K4 was too floaty without also mentioning that it does Assault really well?

We all know Mordin was a great character and what not, ME2 has gotten lots of well-deserved praise for what it gets right at this point its a retread. Certain criticisms too are a retread, most of what Shamus said here he's said on his blog a number of times (while also mentioning that despite all that ME2 is a great game) and a decent chunk of spoiler warning was on this as well. However if I had to choose between more negative or positive commentary on a good game I'd choose negative for a simple reason, with anything of quality its easy to whitewash the flaws in our mind because we were so wowed by the game( or the book or the movie). Criticism helps remind us of the flaws so we can better consider the game as it actually was not as we would like to remember it.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Perhaps I should have worded it better: What I see is beyond criticism. People saying things that aren't true, tearing things to pieces without stating what's good about it.

If all you say is negative, then you're doing nothing. People need to also see what was done right.

Not to mention the fact that far too many people hate things because of things that happened previously. Many times for things that make no sense. And they can't even be civil about it.

EA did it? IT SUCKS!

Mass Effect 3? IT'LL BE BAD BECAUSE OF 2! Also, just look at Dragon Age 2! THAT SUCKED, SO EVERYTHING NEW BIOWARE WILL DO WILL SUCK! And why did it suck? EA!

It's bullshit. It's pathetic. And I'm fucking sick of it.

Should every time I mention a fault in a game I have to mention a good thing about it too? Can I say that I thought UT2K4 was too floaty without also mentioning that it does Assault really well?

We all know Mordin was a great character and what not, ME2 has gotten lots of well-deserved praise for what it gets right at this point its a retread. Certain criticisms too are a retread, most of what Shamus said here he's said on his blog a number of times (while also mentioning that despite all that ME2 is a great game) and a decent chunk of spoiler warning was on this as well. However if I had to choose between more negative or positive commentary on a good game I'd choose negative for a simple reason, with anything of quality its easy to whitewash the flaws in our mind because we were so wowed by the game( or the book or the movie). Criticism helps remind us of the flaws so we can better consider the game as it actually was not as we would like to remember it.

As I said to Kahunaburger, I edited my post- I wasn't targeting you. I could tell in an instant that you aren't the type of gamer I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the people that seem to ignore the good about games and state that the game sucks because of it.

 

[theshadowcult]

Seemed like a hell of a lot of nitpicking to me. People should really stop getting up in arms about the "stories" we're hearing about EA interfering with the franchise, all you're doing is upsetting yourselves. If some hard evidence comes out which clearly outlines EA's involvement in making the game worse in any way, I will eat my damn hat.

Developers under EA (and other Publishers too) every now and again out right come out and abuse their publishers for the draconian policies they are placed under.

That being said, the single reason Mass Effect 2 was a bad game, was because Bioware simply removed and replaced anything that was considered flawed in the first game, instead of fixing and improving on it.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Good points all around. I always though Shep should be really, REALLY bothered by the fact that she's brought back from the dead. Especially my Shep, seeing as she told Ashley in the first game that she believes in God. Being dead, then coming back would play major havoc on anyone, but people of faith would always have that nagging feeling, "Am I really me? Is science able to pull my very soul back, or am I a copy? What happens to this ME when I die?" These questions could wreck your life.
My only counter offer to the article is this--blowing up the relay would have killed untold thousands of people. It would have also brought the hammer down very, very quickly on Shep and Cerberus. Now, to fix this, perhaps someone should have brought this point up in a ship meeting in the game. "Why don't we just blow up their relay?"
"Um...because we'd be killing tens of thousands of people."
"Okay, so we tell them to move, then blow it up."
"Right. Who's going to let you destroy their home--even if it is crap--based on what a terrorist organization says about a threat that the rest of the universe doesn't believe is real? Next idea please." Problem solved.
Now, you may point out that Shep blew up the relay and killed 300,000 batarians. I point out that she didn't have a choice. It was either kill 300,000 right then, or lose the entire galaxy in the matter of a few days. Not a fair choice, but an obvious one.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Good points all around. I always though Shep should be really, REALLY bothered by the fact that she's brought back from the dead. Especially my Shep, seeing as she told Ashley in the first game that she believes in God. Being dead, then coming back would play major havoc on anyone, but people of faith would always have that nagging feeling, "Am I really me? Is science able to pull my very soul back, or am I a copy? What happens to this ME when I die?" These questions could wreck your life.
My only counter offer to the article is this--blowing up the relay would have killed untold thousands of people. It would have also brought the hammer down very, very quickly on Shep and Cerberus. Now, to fix this, perhaps someone should have brought this point up in a ship meeting in the game. "Why don't we just blow up their relay?"
"Um...because we'd be killing tens of thousands of people."
"Okay, so we tell them to move, then blow it up."
"Right. Who's going to let you destroy their home--even if it is crap--based on what a terrorist organization says about a threat that the rest of the universe doesn't believe is real? Next idea please." Problem solved.
Now, you may point out that Shep blew up the relay and killed 300,000 batarians. I point out that she didn't have a choice. It was either kill 300,000 right then, or lose the entire galaxy in the matter of a few days. Not a fair choice, but an obvious one.

I need sleep. I actually almost corrected you on the "she" part I apologize for my brain.

 

[perpetualburn]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.
...
EA did it? IT SUCKS!
...

To be fair, for many people, recent sequels published by EA have not lived up to expectations. See: Battlefield, Crysis, Medal of Honor, Dragon Age, Mass Effect (as evidenced by this article).

I'm also certain you're overreacting because I see an equal amount of praise and criticism (even in this thread) wherever I go on this site (Except on The Jimquisition). And telling people that they're pathetic...well...civility...

 

[ZeroMachine]

EDIT: Why in the flying fuck is every god damned gamer on this site becoming such a critic? It never used to be that bad.
...
EA did it? IT SUCKS!
...

To be fair, for many people, recent sequels published by EA have not lived up to expectations. See: Battlefield, Crysis, Medal of Honor, Dragon Age, Mass Effect (as evidenced by this article).

I'm also certain you're overreacting because I see an equal amount of praise and criticism (even in this thread) wherever I go on this site (Except on The Jimquisition). And telling people that they're pathetic...well...civility...

A) Relatively fair point, but Mass Effect 2 was one of the most well received games of last year, most people feel it lived up to expectations. Not saying those that didn't get what they wanted are wrong in any way, just making a point. But there's a difference between being cautious and instantly damning something because of a past mistake.

B) I'm grateful every damn time I see people giving both positive and negative, but there are far too many times I see just blatant bashing for no reason, or for the wrong reasons (if you don't like something, fine, but get your facts straight before you bash something).

C) I'm not calling people pathetic- I'm saying the way the specific people I'm talking about are acting is pathetic. There's a big difference. Even a great man can act pathetic sometimes.

 

[SageRuffin]

IRL military commanders don't engage in romantic relationships with their subordinates, and there are reasons they don't do this. A character-driven and relationship-driven game completely missing this fact is pretty strange.

As a member of the (US) armed services, I just wanna let you know that you're absolutely right. Fraternization can affect morale and result in favoritism, further affecting morale and, by extension, the mission. Not to mention both parties could get into a lot of shit (especially the officer).

Then again, the ME series takes place some two centuries into the future. Rules could change by then - that's how I look at it (and goddamn does some of that stuff about the military infrastructure in the series). :/

 

[PopcornAvenger]

... Really? You - you DO realize that ME1 has plot-holes because - surprise - it's just the beginning of the series, right? The Mass Effect series was designed from beginning to end to be a trilogy.

What, it was a series? *blink-blink*

Heh. No, these were inconsistencies in the plot, sometimes huge ones, not things to be filled out later. All that stuff was debated over and over on the ME forums. Again, I really didn't mind them, though, as I for the most part I liked the character and the gameplay. Unless the story's real crap do I get kinda -_- .