What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?

[Gengisgame]

And thinking about it, I'm not sure I WANT a bunch of AAA suits handling aspects like that. I'd still rather leave it in the hands of the modders who will, in all liklihood, have a better appreciation of it and will much more likely make the material satisfying. If you want a certain kind of sexuality or kink in your game, do you really want it being overseen by a suit, or a modder who shares your kink or view on what would be satisfying?

Or to put it another way, why is "Amateur" porn so popular?[/quote]

Amateur porn popularity is popular for the same reason that fresh actresses are popular, it the fetish is anything it's the idea of innocence, the appeal of an amateur would be that they aren't pornstars if that makes sense.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

You dismissed the most important part of my point with an "I don't know"

So what do you want me to say?

Tip, don't tell someone what they should like.

Never have. Never will.

You have already said you don't like it so show some empathy and understand that people can want what you don't like.

I should first tell the other side of the argument to show me the same fucking consideration, really. But second, I said I just don't get it, and what I don't get isn't the desire for the material, but the fervant craziness in defending what I think is an inferior way to get that material.

I'm going to be rude and make assumptions based on past experience but I can't help feel that you know the answer is "potential backlash" and that you will dance around the issue.

Do it all you like, won't make it any more correct.

 

[Gamerpalooza]

If you're looking for games with "adult" themes go to Patreon. That site is full of that crap. Some of them are actually pretty decent I might add.

So are we restricted to E games only? Since everything E10+ has "suggestive themes" and violence which is considered "adult" themes.

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves. Swimsuits are just objectives to keep replay value high by giving the players an incentive time sink.

Regardless of gender if all you're doing is getting off on the characters then that's on you not on the game. Since the individual is the one doing the fantasizing not the game itself. Since there's nothing preventing another company from expanding the concept and adding males into the mix.

 

[irishda]

If you're looking for games with "adult" themes go to Patreon. That site is full of that crap. Some of them are actually pretty decent I might add.

So are we restricted to E games only? Since everything E10+ has "suggestive themes" and violence which is considered "adult" themes.

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves. Swimsuits are just objectives to keep replay value high by giving the players an incentive time sink.

Regardless of gender if all you're doing is getting off on the characters then that's on you not on the game. Since the individual is the one doing the fantasizing not the game itself. Since there's nothing preventing another company from expanding the concept and adding males into the mix.

I believe that's called Fire Emblem. Now if you mean people jacking off to animated characters, I believe that's called hentai or cartoon porn, and the magic of the internet means they don't have to shell out $60 and play through a crappy game in order to beat their meat to it.

 

[Lykosia_v1legacy]

If you're looking for games with "adult" themes go to Patreon. That site is full of that crap. Some of them are actually pretty decent I might add.

So are we restricted to E games only? Since everything E10+ has "suggestive themes" and violence which is considered "adult" themes.

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves. Swimsuits are just objectives to keep replay value high by giving the players an incentive time sink.

Regardless of gender if all you're doing is getting off on the characters then that's on you not on the game. Since the individual is the one doing the fantasizing not the game itself. Since there's nothing preventing another company from expanding the concept and adding males into the mix.

There are 18+ porn games there as well, if you're interested in that short of thing.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves.

This is a series of mini-games where the rewards are increasingly skimpier bikinis, not This War of Mine. Give me a break, sir. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Spank material is fine as long as it's honest about being spank material.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

If you're looking for games with "adult" themes go to Patreon. That site is full of that crap. Some of them are actually pretty decent I might add.

So are we restricted to E games only? Since everything E10+ has "suggestive themes" and violence which is considered "adult" themes.

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves. Swimsuits are just objectives to keep replay value high by giving the players an incentive time sink.

Regardless of gender if all you're doing is getting off on the characters then that's on you not on the game. Since the individual is the one doing the fantasizing not the game itself. Since there's nothing preventing another company from expanding the concept and adding males into the mix.

There are 18+ porn games there as well, if you're interested in that short of thing.

No, you see, unlike us lower life forms, they enjoy TEASING, which makes their taste superior to our obvious SJW influenced preference for straight up porn.

 

[Calico_Asshole]

If you're looking for games with "adult" themes go to Patreon. That site is full of that crap. Some of them are actually pretty decent I might add.

So are we restricted to E games only? Since everything E10+ has "suggestive themes" and violence which is considered "adult" themes.

The whole point of a DOAX style game is characters relaxing mainly through mini-games with a light touch in getting to know characters that leave their worries of battle and war and express themselves. Swimsuits are just objectives to keep replay value high by giving the players an incentive time sink.

Regardless of gender if all you're doing is getting off on the characters then that's on you not on the game. Since the individual is the one doing the fantasizing not the game itself. Since there's nothing preventing another company from expanding the concept and adding males into the mix.

I believe that's called Fire Emblem. Now if you mean people jacking off to animated characters, I believe that's called hentai or cartoon porn, and the magic of the internet means they don't have to shell out $60 and play through a crappy game in order to beat their meat to it.

Honestly, it's not just this kind of game. You don't exactly sell millions of copies of "Strip Majong" in the West either. If you just want to be titillated, there's a world of porn that includes just that, lots of it animated, or if it's your thing there are strip bars absolutely everywhere in most of the West, certainly North America and Canada. I can't imagine a bunch of Floridians who normally go to a strip bar on a Friday night, would be terribly interested in relatively low-res T&A.

Which is the final thing; real women are still vastly more detailed and superior to the digital variety in every way. If we were having this discussion in 20 years, maybe it would be different.

 

[Gengisgame]

Never have. Never will.

Here, quoting you

"Why, I ask, worry so much about AAA price games wanting to feature or not feature it when the product you seek is already out there for even lower cost and less hassle?"

There was no real discussion, you weren't even keeping up with what you said yourself.

Or you can't see the difference between extremely low budget and almost any console game, both are pretty bad.

You keep going on about the point of straight up porn, you are either unwilling or incapable of listening.

 

[Gengisgame]

Honestly, it's not just this kind of game. You don't exactly sell millions of copies of "Strip Majong" in the West either. If you just want to be titillated, there's a world of porn that includes just that, lots of it animated, or if it's your thing there are strip bars absolutely everywhere in most of the West, certainly North America and Canada. I can't imagine a bunch of Floridians who normally go to a strip bar on a Friday night, would be terribly interested in relatively low-res T&A.

Which is the final thing; real women are still vastly more detailed and superior to the digital variety in every way. If we were having this discussion in 20 years, maybe it would be different.

I've made this point enough times but people really need to stop making comments as if porn and any other form of titilation are interchangeable.

I mean think how ridiculous it would sound if someone told you not to watch an action film instead go watch a boxing match on youtube.

Instead of reading an award winning horror novel just read some creepy pasta.

Instead of having sex just masturbate.

Or that one hot female character in a game with the backstory, the special moves etc means more to a gamer than a pornstar.

Your last point is doesn't work, men don't have or always want access to real women, that's why these things exist, you wouldn't tell a woman to go get a real dick if you found out she had a dildo.

 

[ROTTL]

Case in point Rockstar, the company with a notoriety for controversy could be capitalizing on the fact that there is an audience of desperate fans who had been badly burnt by an increase of censorship in Japanese games and being denied the more lewd titles. I mean it is the perfect way to take Japan's patented fanservice games and make them even better.

Seriously, they can do what KT can never do, bare frontal nudity.

But yeah why can't the west make something like DOAX despite having shit like HBO?

There's an audience of desperate fans, but it's not a very large audience, and it's an audience that's going to grow up and stop liking this kind of thing, for the most part.

Meanwhile you can make something with "Open World" and "Space" on it and market to millions. It's not a puzzle, anymore than "Why is that flavor of ice cream I love not made anymore?!"

It didn't make enough money to be worth producing it, storing it, shipping and selling it. It didn't have to be a failure either, but why would you mint pennies when you could mint dimes?

 

[Gamerpalooza]

I believe that's called Fire Emblem. Now if you mean people jacking off to animated characters, I believe that's called hentai or cartoon porn, and the magic of the internet means they don't have to shell out $60 and play through a crappy game in order to beat their meat to it.

Sadly Fire Emblem doesn't really have mini-game. Unless I consider something like Arena one but that don't work so well post game.

This is a series of mini-games where the rewards are increasingly skimpier bikinis, not This War of Mine.

You don't get "skimpier bikinis" for playing the mini games. You get currency to spend on an array of items or bikinis. Also not all purchasable wear are skimpy since some actually cover the women up more.

Give me a break, sir. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Spank material is fine as long as it's honest about being spank material.

Then practice what you preach since not everyone sees the game like you do.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

"Why, I ask, worry so much about AAA price games wanting to feature or not feature it when the product you seek is already out there for even lower cost and less hassle?"

And do tell, prosecutor, where I said someone was not allowed to like it?

You keep going on about the point of straight up porn, you are either unwilling or incapable of listening.

Yes, and I intend to keep on going about it, as long as titilation is involved in the discussion.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I've made this point enough times but people really need to stop making comments as if porn and any other form of titilation are interchangeable.

How are they not? The same goal is in mind, isn't it?

And if it's not, what's the goal?

Instead of reading an award winning horror novel just read some creepy pasta.

Creepypastas are usually just shit horror stories.

Your last point is doesn't work, men don't have or always want access to real women, that's why these things exist, you wouldn't tell a woman to go get a real dick if you found out she had a dildo.

No, but I don't see how that's equivalent. Titilation is available in easier to access forms, for cheaper, and without the grinding most of the time.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Then practice what you preach since not everyone sees the game like you do.

It's your money, your time, your enjoyment, but I still just plain don't see the appeal.

Just don't act snooty about it, I won't act snooty about not getting it, deal?

 

[Gamerpalooza]

It's your money, your time, your enjoyment, but I still just plain don't see the appeal.

You don't have to but don't generalize people into categorizes just because you don't see it. Regardless if "some" people fall into that category since there's always the possibility of exceptions.

Just don't act snooty about it, I won't act snooty about not getting it, deal?

It's not about being snooty. There's a market here that isn't meant to be all about violence, gore, and/or "gravure". Competitiveness can still exist but it doesn't need to be the core concept.

 

[Shiver Me Tits]

"The data does not mean jack"

Spoken like someone who absolutely doesn't like what the data is telling them, but not someone to be taken seriously in a debate wherein data is probably the only significant factor to be discussed. The bottom line data of shit sales isn't hard to figure out, it matches the anecdotal reaction you see in this thread, and frankly it matches the decision by all involved not to bother too much with it.

Well, it's the data on one franchise that sold poorly. Could've been for dozens of reasons other than what you have in mind. And any kind of conclusion drawn from it is bound to be too far fetched. Lots of games have shit sales, but rarely it condemns the whole genre.

Ok, if it could have been dozens of reasons, then give me those dozens of reasons that fit the data as well or better than the existing theories. Don't try to Trump this.

 

[Gengisgame]

Ok, if it could have been dozens of reasons, then give me those dozens of reasons that fit the data as well or better than the existing theories. Don't try to Trump this.

Dozens? And what are you going to do, pickle them?
Here's one, maybe the game isn't good.
Now if you find some evidence that DOAX is a genuinely good game, we will move to the others.

An apparently popular visual Novel has raised 1.2 million in kickstarter, stars a guy with a bunch of girls and has erotic content.

That's more than Divinity Original Sin raised.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Ok, if it could have been dozens of reasons, then give me those dozens of reasons that fit the data as well or better than the existing theories. Don't try to Trump this.

Dozens? And what are you going to do, pickle them?
Here's one, maybe the game isn't good.
Now if you find some evidence that DOAX is a genuinely good game, we will move to the others.

An apparently popular visual Novel has raised 1.2 million in kickstarter, stars a guy with a bunch of girls and has erotic content.

That's more than Divinity Original Sin raised.

That doesn't sound right. A game like Divinity should cost way more then a visual novel (what novel). I am assuming anyway, maybe I am mistaken and visual novels are way more expensive then I think of them as. Then again lost of your kiststarter games aren't actually banking on just KS money a lot get investments form companies who see major molaw after the game is made.

 

[EternallyBored]

Ok, if it could have been dozens of reasons, then give me those dozens of reasons that fit the data as well or better than the existing theories. Don't try to Trump this.

Dozens? And what are you going to do, pickle them?
Here's one, maybe the game isn't good.
Now if you find some evidence that DOAX is a genuinely good game, we will move to the others.

An apparently popular visual Novel has raised 1.2 million in kickstarter, stars a guy with a bunch of girls and has erotic content.

That's more than Divinity Original Sin raised.

That doesn't sound right. A game like Divinity should cost way more then a visual novel (what novel). I am assuming anyway, maybe I am mistaken and visual novels are way more expensive then I think of them as. Then again lost of your kiststarter games aren't actually banking on just KS money a lot get investments form companies who see major molaw after the game is made.

It did, divinity was supposed to be built on a budget of 3 million, in the end, Larion reported the game cost about 4.6 million to make, Larion had investors as well as their own liquid assets from previous games, the Kickstarter was mostly to gauge interest and give them some extra cash to elevate the game beyond their initial plans. Which, with Larions experience in making budget games paid off for them.

As for VNs, over a million is high for a VN if you are talking the one s that are just still scenes with almost no voices, usually if it costs that much they are the ones that spring for the fancy voice acting and animated scenes, a VN with Divinity:OS's total budget would likely be very rare.

EDIT: I should mention the budget was in euros not dollars so the number is somewhat higher when converted.