What's Wrong With Communism?
- Thread starter GoldenCondor
- Start date
Actually, China's recent prosperity was entirely due to opening their country to foreign markets, and adopting market economy policies. The U.S. began pouring billions of dollars into China once they began exporting products, because they could make these products cheaply. Labor is cheap in china, and will remain cheap for some time to come because China's monetary policy is entirely geared to artificially de-valuing the yuan relative to other currencies, meaning that Chinese labor and goods will remain perpetually cheaper than (most of) the rest of the world's labor and export goods. China didn't have an economy worth a damn until they opened up to the rest of the world. They owe ALL their economic growth to their trading partners.Rigs83 said:
Now, onto the topic at hand, communism doesn't work on a large scale because people are greedy, envious, an lazy. Therefore, unless resources are infinite, humanity needs a system which rewards labor and innovation and even greed (so long as one's greed doesn't cheat the system, which creates inefficiency and loss), and punishes sloth and greed (greed that breaks the rules of the system). Market economies WORK because they can productively harness human greed with property rights and law enforcement. You make it, you keep it*. Do you want to make more than Joe Blow down the street, because you enjoy the feeling of being rich compared to your neighbors? Well, you can do that too if you work hard and work smart. If your neighbors become envious, that's their problem. They can either be content with what they have, or they can try to one-up you by working harder and smarter. Large scale communism DOESN'T WORK because it doesn't punish sloth. If "The State" (everyone else) is going to feed, clothe, and house me, why should I bother working? If my neighbor works harder than my lazy self, I can do nothing and still enjoy the fruits of his labor. When you have a communist state which tries to punish sloth, then you get places like the former Soviet Union. Furthermore, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Guess what, in a communist state, the government has absolute power.
*Minus taxes.
Communism is a classic example of "great in theory but poor in actuality". For it to work everyone would have to agree to it. It's like trying to accomplish world peace by all nations throwing away their weapons. It might seem like a good idea but you know there will be one who won't do it an everyone else will be left defenseless. Instead we go to the opposite extreme and have so many weapons that anyone who steps out of line risks killing everyone.
What is wrong with Communism is that it ISN'T a government system. As soon as a country tries to become "Communist" they often contradict themselves by having a leader. In true communism there is no leader because everyone is equal. There has never been a true communist nation EVER. Even the USSR the big symbol of "Communism" Was the United Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. So, in conclusion the problem with Communism is that it has never been done. Also, it could never work. However, Socialism IS a government system.
Because life isn't fair, and supply and demand. Moreover, professional sports bring in billions of dollars a year. What wouldn't be fair is if the Football player DIDN'T get a lot of money.coldalarm said:
I like saying that I disagree with the president on some issues. Can you do that in a communist government? seriously, can you? I don't know.
1. It's a Utopian theory and doesn't really work in a real society. It makes the basic assumption that no one will ever game the system and that everyone will put extra resources into helping society. AKA, it depends on humans not to act like humans, because most people won't do that. "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability" never really works out the way it's supposed to(not that anyone ever really tries).GoldenCondor said:
2. It doesn't Scale. Even Marx said this, that any nearby capalitist societies would out perform a communist one, so it only really works if the world becomes communist. Any economy that only works on the largest or smallest scales isn't feasible.
3. It has the tedency to encourage totalitarian socieites in order to implement, who, in theory, are supposed to set up the communist society and then step down once it's up and running. The problem is, said people never actual want to leave their positions of power, so you never get to the "Factory that belongs to the workers" stage, rather a "Factory that belongs to the state, and the workers are still treated like crap".
And as an Aside, there's no such thing as "Free" healthcare. There's state funded healthcare and how well it works is for another thread altogether, but by no means is it free.
As a former communist I can say a lot: The premise of communism is the intermediary state of the "proletarian dictatorship", which presumes that a platonist politician exists. It just so happens, that if you give one man too much power, he will end up forgetting about his platonist ideals, and become an actual dictator. So rather than working towards making communities independent from the government (which is what communism works towards) he will attempt to remain in power.
Social liberalism, on the other hand, has proven very useful, and it's this Obama is working toward if his promises are anything to go by.
Social liberalism, on the other hand, has proven very useful, and it's this Obama is working toward if his promises are anything to go by.
Communists need to stop dreaming of their perfect government that will never work. Humans always have and always will feel the need to be superior, and typically this is done by comparing themselves to other humans, be it the neighbourhood drunk or some random starving African (and they can feel superior and benevolent if they donate some of their own wealth to help out said starving african).
My point being, nobody will ever accept a perfect society unless they are mentally conditioned from birth or something a la Brave New World (and even in that they were conditioned to feel like they had a better life than higher-grade humans).
It is imperfect in theory because it's a great big "what if human nature was like this" idea, and thus it is very broken in practice.
My point being, nobody will ever accept a perfect society unless they are mentally conditioned from birth or something a la Brave New World (and even in that they were conditioned to feel like they had a better life than higher-grade humans).
It is imperfect in theory because it's a great big "what if human nature was like this" idea, and thus it is very broken in practice.
You're... thinking of Socialism. That's okay... I guess, not really, depends on how it's done, but still, what you're think of is S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-M. That isn't communism. That is the enemy of Ayn Rand's everywhere. /slightly smart joke targeted towards MarxismGoldenCondor said:
Nobody REALLY belives that Obama's going to make communist America, that's just political propaganda to scare some of the more idiotic independent voters. Like saying how Obama's really an African terrorist bent on destroying America or how McCain would've died in office if he'd won.wrightry said:
you bring a smile to my face Akai. you know... some people you just can't trust them to be consistent and loyal. You my friend are like clockwork, a well oiled, predictable and repetitive clockwork. you give fanatically passionate a good rep. I could argue some of your points but like you just said, fuck it. nobody is going to change their beliefs ,its early and not worth talking over.Akai Shizuku said:
whats really funny is that you've talked this over with us caps so much that you can cut the shit and go strait to the point of contention. no mucking about in the principles and things. lol, just shows how much we talk about it here.
Communism wouldn't work even if people were perfectly altruistic and only interested in helping their fellow man. It makes economic calculation impossible, and economic decisions random. See "Socialism" by von Mises, 1922.
Anywhere people try to implement it, they start dropping like flies to starvation and/or start killing each other in a bid to stay alive. See Russian Famine of 1921. Millions perished because they subscribed to this retarded idea.
Anywhere people try to implement it, they start dropping like flies to starvation and/or start killing each other in a bid to stay alive. See Russian Famine of 1921. Millions perished because they subscribed to this retarded idea.
The thing is that in practice Communism boils down to 'you don't have to do shit and you'll still get an even share of everything' so nobody does anything expecting everything. It's the promise of a shiny, happy utopia where everyone is content, money doesn't exist, and all people do is further their lives through knowledge and exploration al la Star Trek. In fact, nobody wants to do the work of providing the masses with food w/o compensation or the prospect of advancement due to their place in the world.
The whole argument is flawed, but then so is every other social model. There's really no actual upside to a Republic: the morally bankrupt get obscenely rich by stomping on the lower classes, and the lower classes can't change because of limits to education based on wealth.
Only when there are no people to argue over how to run the world will it ever be perfect. Sad, but true.
The whole argument is flawed, but then so is every other social model. There's really no actual upside to a Republic: the morally bankrupt get obscenely rich by stomping on the lower classes, and the lower classes can't change because of limits to education based on wealth.
Only when there are no people to argue over how to run the world will it ever be perfect. Sad, but true.
Exactly why the USA might do great with Communism (MAYBE socialism) because it already has a stable economy (if you ignore everything it owes to China).keinushi said:
