Whistleblowing Nurse: ICE may be doing an ethnic cleansing via sterilization

[Dwarvenhobble]

We cannot possibly know the answers of how widespread this was until we have a congressional investigation. Right now, we only have the information provided by the Whistelblower nurse and likely the statements provided to investigators for the law firm by the detainees.

The physician in question would not have been able to act alone according to what the detainees have stated the nurses and those transporting them told them. From what was stated he was a gynecologist. However even if his specialty was hysterectomies, every patient who sees a specialist would not be determined to need one. For example, when you see a surgeon who specializes in gallbladder removal, he is only supposed to remove gallbladders in patients that he can show they actually need to have this done otherwise that is medical malpractice. He doesn't remove organs from every patient that comes to see him. He would be jailed and held criminally negligent and lose his license to practice medicine if he did that.

If this physician cannot prove that these were medically necessary, they were illegal and he should be criminally liable. In addition since he was doing this while these women were in US custody, the US government would also owe them financial compensation for allowing this to happen to them while is US custody. The US was responsible for signing off on this as well as providing transport and security that made it so they could not eve flee the hospital while undergoing and recovering from these procedures at minimum. US officials may also be held criminally responsible as well depending on the results of the investigation. The investigation has not yet even been initiated, as they have only just now received the whistle blower complaint.

Ok so would a nurse necessarily know the Doctor in question hadn't found reason for the operation to happen and was pulling a fast one?
In the UK again it happened for years with a Breast Surgeon who happened to work at a private hospital nearby as an on demand breast surgeon.
For all the nurses knew this was an authorised operation being done for legitimate reasons by a trustworthy doctor.

You have to catch some-one being criminally negligent and with specialist knowledge or a specialist area the ease of which some-one can be caught goes down dramatically because it requires others to check.

So far it's 5 cases. It is worth investigating further but holding some-one liable beyond the Doctor if it were just the Doctor would be foolish because really this was caught pretty early on as you can't simply catch such things with 1 case it often requires a pattern and generally 5 is the smallest number to establish a set of data that can form any real patter.

Hell it might be found that it was 5 ICE detainees and 50 regular American women or more now which really would have his hospital trust in far more trouble as presumably that's who ICE contacted to get some-one.

Ah, yes. It’s just bad journalism to report things you don’t like so now you’re gonna derail the thread and cry about Obama. Ebic mame. Libs destroyed.

That would be biased journalism or possibly irresponsible scaremongering journalism.

Remember the Rolling Stones Campus rape epidemic article where they got reports and the college's own Title XI board had thrown out the claimed case and Rolling Stones printing the allegations anyway and got them only by the person alleging it saying they'd give it but said journalist couldn't ask the alleged rapist or the Fratabout the story? You know where it turned out the guy she accused of rape had the alibi of being at work in town at the time and being able to be seen on CCTV the whole time. Along with how the Frat kept record of all parties and expenditures and had nothing on record for when the alleged party happened and there was no social media posts or photos or anything showing any kind of party had happened. Also the person claiming to be the victim had changed her story according to others to make it seems more dramatic over time claiming she was cover in blood when she was found etc.


If the piece in question doesn't present alternatives to the forced sterilisation claim I'd say it may have more of an agenda to it to whip people up in anger who already believe and have been shown to believe claim after claim against Trump uncritically. E.G.the claim of Trump stealing a little kids hat and throwing it into the crowd before.

 

[Asita]

2) People in this thread said everyone this doctor sees seems to get a hysterectomy has anyone considered the issue is The Doctor?

I'm assuming by everyone they also mean people outside the camp who see him.

Based on the specifics of the accusation, saying "it's just the doctor" is an untenable position as the doctor is not part of the facility. Rather, the plaintiffs of the case were shipped to him from the Irwin County Detention Center. So at minimum you're looking at both his practice and accomplices in the facility. Moreover, the whistleblower complaint basically alleges that the issue is not limited to the hysterectomies. Rather, it describes the facility as a medical nightmare in general. The complaint can be found at the end of the link in the OP, but here are some highlights:

"ICDC continues to transfer immigrants in and out of the facility against CDC guidelines and the advice of ICDC’s medical director"
"ICDC does not properly quarantine new individuals arriving at the facility."
"Detained women who were exposed to the [COVID-19] virus and also had pre-existing conditions were refused COVID-19 testing for over a month"
"Detained men with COVID-19 symptoms were also refused COVID-19 testing despite multiple requests to be tested"
"Medical Staff at ICDC downplay the need for COVID-19 testing and actively don’t use COVID-19 testing machines at the facility"
"ICDC nurse shreds medical request forms from detained immigrants" ("it was common practice for the sick call nurse to shred medical request forms from detained immigrants who were requesting to go to the medical unit. She also stated that the sick call nurse sometimes fabricated records such as vital signs without ever seeing the individual requesting medical help")
"ICDC nurse fabricates medical records when detained immigrants submit an electronic medical request form"
"ICDC employees are instructed to work if they exhibit COVID-19 symptoms, are awaiting a COVID-19 test result, or have had a positive COVID-19 test result"
"ICDC refuses to tell employees and detained immigrants who has COVID-19"

The hysterectomies thing is perhaps the most eye catching, but the complaint is of systematic issues with the facility, not a single rogue element the facility can remove and wipe its hands of.

 

[lil devils x]

Ok so would a nurse necessarily know the Doctor in question hadn't found reason for the operation to happen and was pulling a fast one?
In the UK again it happened for years with a Breast Surgeon who happened to work at a private hospital nearby as an on demand breast surgeon.
For all the nurses knew this was an authorised operation being done for legitimate reasons by a trustworthy doctor.

You have to catch some-one being criminally negligent and with specialist knowledge or a specialist area the ease of which some-one can be caught goes down dramatically because it requires others to check.

So far it's 5 cases. It is worth investigating further but holding some-one liable beyond the Doctor if it were just the Doctor would be foolish because really this was caught pretty early on as you can't simply catch such things with 1 case it often requires a pattern and generally 5 is the smallest number to establish a set of data that can form any real patter.

Hell it might be found that it was 5 ICE detainees and 50 regular American women or more now which really would have his hospital trust in far more trouble as presumably that's who ICE contacted to get some-one.


That would be biased journalism or possibly irresponsible scaremongering journalism.

Remember the Rolling Stones Campus rape epidemic article where they got reports and the college's own Title XI board had thrown out the claimed case and Rolling Stones printing the allegations anyway and got them only by the person alleging it saying they'd give it but said journalist couldn't ask the alleged rapist or the Fratabout the story? You know where it turned out the guy she accused of rape had the alibi of being at work in town at the time and being able to be seen on CCTV the whole time. Along with how the Frat kept record of all parties and expenditures and had nothing on record for when the alleged party happened and there was no social media posts or photos or anything showing any kind of party had happened. Also the person claiming to be the victim had changed her story according to others to make it seems more dramatic over time claiming she was cover in blood when she was found etc.


If the piece in question doesn't present alternatives to the forced sterilisation claim I'd say it may have more of an agenda to it to whip people up in anger who already believe and have been shown to believe claim after claim against Trump uncritically. E.G.the claim of Trump stealing a little kids hat and throwing it into the crowd before.

In the US, like other western nations, physicians are required by law to keep a patients medical records and these can be legally acquired by the court. The physician would have be able to provide, x-rays, sonograms, laparoscopy and other test results as actual proof that the procedure was required and have their files peer reviewed to assess whether or not the procedures were necessary. This is something that is provable, not just something a physician gives his word on. If the surgeon is unable to provide the patient files or the evidence required to make the diagnosis, he is in violation of the law. Imaging and test results may be able to be checked for accuracy by re-imaging and testing the patient now to make sure those images and tests actually belonged to the patient in question. If they do not match up, that would prove falsifying medical records, a felony.

At present, there is no way that this could be a case of one physician acting on their own, at minimum they have staff at the facility where the detainees were held, the nurses and transport also necessarily involved. From the statements given by detainees, the nurses would be accomplices due to what the detainees actually said they said/did as well as transport. There is no way the facility they were being held would be unaware of what was happening as they would not only have to sign off, but would also have to provide the security and transport for this to be able to take place at all.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Based on the specifics of the accusation, saying "it's just the doctor" is an untenable position as the doctor is not part of the facility. Rather, the plaintiffs of the case were shipped to him from the Irwin County Detention Center. So at minimum you're looking at both his practice and accomplices in the facility. Moreover, the whistleblower complaint basically alleges that the issue is not limited to the hysterectomies. Rather, it describes the facility as a medical nightmare in general. The complaint can be found at the end of the link in the OP, but here are some highlights:

"ICDC continues to transfer immigrants in and out of the facility against CDC guidelines and the advice of ICDC’s medical director"
"ICDC does not properly quarantine new individuals arriving at the facility."
"Detained women who were exposed to the [COVID-19] virus and also had pre-existing conditions were refused COVID-19 testing for over a month"
"Detained men with COVID-19 symptoms were also refused COVID-19 testing despite multiple requests to be tested"
"Medical Staff at ICDC downplay the need for COVID-19 testing and actively don’t use COVID-19 testing machines at the facility"
"ICDC nurse shreds medical request forms from detained immigrants" ("it was common practice for the sick call nurse to shred medical request forms from detained immigrants who were requesting to go to the medical unit. She also stated that the sick call nurse sometimes fabricated records such as vital signs without ever seeing the individual requesting medical help")
"ICDC nurse fabricates medical records when detained immigrants submit an electronic medical request form"
"ICDC employees are instructed to work if they exhibit COVID-19 symptoms, are awaiting a COVID-19 test result, or have had a positive COVID-19 test result"
"ICDC refuses to tell employees and detained immigrants who has COVID-19"

The hysterectomies thing is perhaps the most eye catching, but the complaint is of systematic issues with the facility, not a single rogue element the facility can remove and wipe its hands of.

That sounds more like general malpractice and incompetence on the part of the facility itself then.

In the US, like other western nations, physicians are required by law to keep a patients medical records and these can be legally acquired by the court. The physician would have be able to provide, x-rays, sonograms, laparoscopy and other test results as actual proof that the procedure was required and have their files peer reviewed to assess whether or not the procedures were necessary. This is something that is provable, not just something a physician gives his word on. If the surgeon is unable to provide the patient files or the evidence required to make the diagnosis, he is in violation of the law. Imaging and test results may be able to be checked for accuracy by re-imaging and testing the patient now to make sure those images and tests actually belonged to the patient in question. If they do not match up, that would prove falsifying medical records, a felony.

At present, there is no way that this could be a case of one physician acting on their own, at minimum they have staff at the facility where the detainees were held, the nurses and transport also necessarily involved. From the statements given by detainees, the nurses would be accomplices due to what the detainees actually said they said/did as well as transport. There is no way the facility they were being held would be unaware of what was happening as they would not only have to sign off, but would also have to provide the security and transport for this to be able to take place at all.

Yes and such people only get caught when some-one raises the alarm and such things are looked into and peer reviewed. That's the thing the more specialised the field the less others can often easily check over the work. This is kind of how the UK Breast Surgeon was caught mostly by chance when one patient of his moved away and was checked over by another doctor. Courts will only check if they think there is reason to check stuff or suspicion etc.

Nurses are told the patient needs the operation so think the Doctor couldn't be lying so do their jobs and transport the patients. It's 5 cases we don't even know if it was the same nurses taking them each time to be able to spot such a pattern.

Again as I said the facility doctor might have spotted something he was unsure on and called the other guy in as a more seasoned professional taking his word for it on the cases and just seeing it as an unusual spike in people needed a certain treatment that can sometimes happen.

 

[lil devils x]

Yes and such people only get caught when some-one raises the alarm and such things are looked into and peer reviewed. That's the thing the more specialised the field the less others can often easily check over the work. This is kind of how the UK Breast Surgeon was caught mostly by chance when one patient of his moved away and was checked over by another doctor. Courts will only check if they think there is reason to check stuff or suspicion etc.

That is something easily and quickly done in the US as we have an abundant amount of specialists in those fields here. Usually this is also done by insurers when approving whether or not they pay for these things before surgery is even approved. If the US government failed to peer review these facilities procedures, that is another negligent step in the process involved as well as that is a common part of this process. Someone had to sign off and approve these things from the facility itself AND the government who pays for them.

Nurses are told the patient needs the operation so think the Doctor couldn't be lying so do their jobs and transport the patients. It's 5 cases we don't even know if it was the same nurses taking them each time to be able to spot such a pattern.

If your read and understood Aistas post that you commented on, you would see this is not just about 5 people, it is still happening and the nurses would definitely be involved as well. Nurses are not like a secretary. They Too have a duty of care and if they breach that duty, they too are criminally and civilly liable for damages. Nurses are not trained to be mindless drones that follow directions. They too are responsible for their failure of duty of care.

Again as I said the facility doctor might have spotted something he was unsure on and called the other guy in as a more seasoned professional taking his word for it on the cases and just seeing it as an unusual spike in people needed a certain treatment that can sometimes happen.

What exactly are you addressing with this statement?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

That is something easily done in the US as we have an abundant amount of specialists in those fields here. Usually this is also done by insurers when approving whether or not they pay for these things before surgery is even approved. If the US government failed to peer review these facilities procedures, that is another step in the process involved as well as that is a common part of this process.

1) again 5 cases so only just enough to spot such a pattern.
2) Stuff could have still been missed by insurance companies over the years too. They're likely not going to waste that much money bringing in a 2nd expert if they even think the possible cost of a problem could be more if left untreated and cost them money.

If your read and understood Aistas post that you commented on, you would see this is not just about 5 people, it is still happening and the nurses would definitely be involved as well. Nurses are not like a secretary. They Too have a duty of care and if they breach that duty, they too are criminally and civilly liable for damages. Nurses are not trained to be mindless drones that follow directions. They too are responsible for their failure of duty of care.

We don't know if it is still truly happening and wouldn't without an investigation. It's only suspected at this point.
Nurses aren't trained to be mindless drones but I doubt many come out and question the diagnosis of Doctors especially if they're specialists in certain areas.

What exactly are you addressing with this statement?

How come the same doctor keeps doing these procedures. He's the nearest one being called in for a second opinion

 

[lil devils x]

1) again 5 cases so only just enough to spot such a pattern.
2) Stuff could have still been missed by insurance companies over the years too. They're likely not going to waste that much money bringing in a 2nd expert if they even think the possible cost of a problem could be more if left untreated and cost them money.



We don't know if it is still truly happening and wouldn't without an investigation. It's only suspected at this point.
Nurses aren't trained to be mindless drones but I doubt many come out and question the diagnosis of Doctors especially if they're specialists in certain areas.



How come the same doctor keeps doing these procedures. He's the nearest one being called in for a second opinion

They are talking about more than 5 cases of malpractice here, these are just the 5 she spoke to, not that they even believe there are only 5 people at all. I am not sure why you think there are only 5 people total involved. When the government pays for any procedure, they ALWAYS review it, that is not a process skipped normally at all when it involves a major surgery. Someone had to sign off on it and approve it, otherwise it is not paid for.

The nurses didn't tell them that they were having a hysterectomy, instead the nurses lied to them and told them:

"Another nurse then told her the procedure was to mitigate her heavy menstrual bleeding, which the woman had never experienced. When she explained that, the nurse “responded by getting angry and agitated and began yelling at her.”

“She was originally told by the doctor that she had an ovarian cyst and was going to have a small twenty-minute procedure done drilling three small holes in her stomach to drain the cyst,” according to the complaint. “The officer who was transporting her to the hospital told her that she was receiving a hysterectomy to have her womb removed. When the hospital refused to operate on her because her COVID-19 test came back positive for antibodies, she was transferred back to ICDC where the ICDC nurse said that the procedure she was going to have done entailed dilating her vagina and scraping tissue off. “

In what way is that just going along with a physician's diagnosis? They lied to the patients about procedures and changed their stories as to what was being done to them and yelled at them when they questioned what was happening.. NONE of that is normal. None of that should have been happening at all and is quite alarming to hear from any patient.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Yeah, getting three different explanations about why you're both having surgery and what that surgery entails means that something seriously screwy is going on.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I already thought we should abolish ICE. This is another reason to abolish ICE.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Wow, there's no occam's razor here, this is just pure systematic evil. whatever process is going on inside any of those offenders heads is not to be given room to breathe let alone freedom and responsibility over people's lives and futures.

 

[Agema]

2) Stuff could have still been missed by insurance companies over the years too. They're likely not going to waste that much money bringing in a 2nd expert if they even think the possible cost of a problem could be more if left untreated and cost them money.

A healthcare system should be designed with accountability. You mentioned the UK breast surgeon (Ian Paterson) as part of this. He got away with it for so long because the system he was working in wasn dysfunctional.

He did the offending work largely in the private sector, lacking oversight. No-one should work without peer or superior oversight, and yet this guy apparently did, for ten whole years. The company received complaints throughout that time and did what companies normally try to do: bury them. A nurse may not be qualified to tell whether a patient's growth requires surgery or not. But a nurse involved in an operation assuredly should know that the surgeon is carrying out an operation contrary to guidelines and dangerous to the patient's health. I'm guessing he probably selected nurses on the basis they didn't stop him (because they didn't know, didn't care or he won them over I can't say) - but one way or another they were rightfully put before a fitness to practice tribunal as well.

What this really means is that if the system providing care to these refugees was not up to scratch, someone needs a massive fucking paddling. The good news is that this whistleblower did the right thing by reporting what appears to be very troubling behaviour. That's the vital last line of defence against malpractice, but if the system's working properly it shouldn't even have to get that far.

 

[lil devils x]

A healthcare system should be designed with accountability. You mentioned the UK breast surgeon (Ian Paterson) as part of this. He got away with it for so long because the system he was working in wasn dysfunctional.

He did the offending work largely in the private sector, lacking oversight. No-one should work without peer or superior oversight, and yet this guy apparently did, for ten whole years. The company received complaints throughout that time and did what companies normally try to do: bury them. A nurse may not be qualified to tell whether a patient's growth requires surgery or not. But a nurse involved in an operation assuredly should know that the surgeon is carrying out an operation contrary to guidelines and dangerous to the patient's health. I'm guessing he probably selected nurses on the basis they didn't stop him (because they didn't know, didn't care or he won them over I can't say) - but one way or another they were rightfully put before a fitness to practice tribunal as well.

What this really means is that if the system providing care to these refugees was not up to scratch, someone needs a massive fucking paddling. The good news is that this whistleblower did the right thing by reporting what appears to be very troubling behaviour. That's the vital last line of defence against malpractice, but if the system's working properly it shouldn't even have to get that far.

What is scary to me is how many other nurses there actually participated in this or remained silent rather than came forward.

 

[Revnak]

What is scary to me is how many other nurses there actually participated in this or remained silent rather than came forward.

I assume nurses at a concentration camp aren’t necessarily the most experienced or qualified given that I imagine they’d all rather work literally anywhere else.

 

[Agema]

What is scary to me is how many other nurses there actually participated in this or remained silent rather than came forward.

Despite having a lot of skills and expertise, nurses tend to be low status and institutionally weak. I think anyone relatively junior or disempowered will often lack the confidence (let's say) to voice objection, as authority is easily accepted. Some may have unofficially queried, but if a medical doctor or senior administrator reassured them they accepted it.

I also suspect the nature of things like an ICE detention camp is that it's going to be full of healthcare professionals who can't get anything better, because it must be one of the most profoundly depressing places to work. Undoubtedly some will be good in skills and/or professionalism, but on average they will likely be below average.

 

[tstorm823]

What is scary to me is how many other nurses there actually participated in this or remained silent rather than came forward.

That shouldn't make you scared, it should make you skeptical.

 

[Adam Jensen]

This is a form of genocide.

And you know the great thing about genocide? You're equally responsible for attempting it as you are for going through with it. So even if there was one victim or even one attempted victim of a crime attempted/committed with a genocidal intent, it's the same as if a million people were victims of a genocide. And considering the nature of the victim and the forced procedure in this case, good luck defending it as anything less than genocide.

 

[lil devils x]

That shouldn't make you scared, it should make you skeptical.

No it makes me scared. It doesn't give me any reason not to believe what they are willing to testify to. This is not the first time we have seen medical professionals participate in things like this, so it does happen. IF we had more people who would refuse to comply with unethical behavior, we wouldn't have ANYONE willing to work at these detention facilities in the first place. It is evil to take children away from their parents. It is evil to carelessly deport desperate people in need of help. It is evil to punish desperate people who came here in need of help. It is scary that we have so many so willing to participate in these evil things at all. For a person to even be willing to comply with such evil activities at all is disturbing. They have shut down their humanity.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What is scary to me is how many other nurses there actually participated in this or remained silent rather than came forward.

People in big institutions with little outside oversight get away with things that low level types don't speak out about all the time. Look at the BBC and Jimmy Saville.

 

[Elijin]

To those downplaying this:
Informed consent is compulsory in healthcare.

Laws have been broken here, there is NO question of that, the only thing to be seen is how far these violations go and with what intent.

 

[tstorm823]

Laws have been broken here, there is NO question of that, the only thing to be seen is how far these violations go and with what intent.

Of course there is question of that. Unless you've seen documentation of what the claims are describing, you don't know what's described actually happened.