WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[Moth_Monk]

Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.

I guess it's because bronies are betas?

 

[Overquoted]

(snip)

Hey, I found the link you needed. But I don't think it proves your point. Actually, I think it does the opposite.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/tables/table-4

 

[Shingro]

I get it fine, I just have a different objection that you seem unwilling to address. Sure, being called a brony would make some people cringe. Is that right? Isn't that just an aversion fad like every other dumb thing people are 'supposed to hate?' Why not put one in a fursuit? Make one a politician, give one a french accent. The thin one could hold up a justin beiber poster. Those groups of course are not ALLOWED to be pissed being intentionally associated with the racist behavior of the WGDF in the comic right? I mean they're *about* as annoying, so why not just all throw them in the same pool, 'bronies are as bad as racists,' front line news. I bet it'd get plenty of "omg best comic ever" cheers too.

If you want to object to bronies/hipsters/bros being considered obnoxious, go ahead. But this is the wrong place to do it.

And for the fourth bloody time, bronies are not being associated with racists. Racists are being associated with bronies. To make them seem even more obnoxious than they already are. The comic wasn't comparing racists and bronies. So unless you can say with 100% certainty that not a single brony anywhere is a racist or WGDF guy, then you have no valid objection. Because no one here is saying that bronies and WGDF guys are all the same.

Here: People with road rage suck. Racists suck. Racists with road rage suck even more.

You don't get it. You're getting upset over something that isn't there. You are literally failing to understand the basic point.

I understand what you're saying, I'm saying a different thing. You're working in categories, logic items. Math effectively even though it's categories.

I understand that (and it's getting awfully insulting that your constant refrain is that I don't, I certainly wouldn't insult your intelligence so.) Hell in a strict logical sense I totally agree with you. Is that what you want? Yes, an A is C and a B is C does not work retroactively on the group.

*however* What I'm saying is if you are a member of, or have close friends who are members of A or B that doesn't mean you're not allowed to be offended.

I'm saying "Do you see how this could be taken poorly by people in those groups or who know people in those groups? Why did Grey feel the need to call out these groups specifically furthering the aversion fads in the worst possible way."

If you can't, I'm not sure what to tell you. There's as far as I can see no effort at separation or distinction in this comic. I'd be more then happy if you or Grey pointed out where he started making fine distinctions. At best he's just taking whatever available opportunity to make fun of those groups, and that doesn't exactly make me go "Grey you're an alright guy."

People are people, if the comic wasn't SO savage I might not even care. You don't see any posts from me on the Eva comics you'll note and they're just as much people as everyone listed here. However the comic is SO savage and touches on VERY sensitive ground in the worst most harsh way. I mean... a zimmerman joke by a white guy using a black mouthpiece really? Right after he uses him to (arguably) trivialize the experience of being black and how it might shape your character... I dunno... As far as I can see it's an ugly and gross thing to do, and I'll admit it it makes me kinda mad.

If you're going to be savage, you gotta have laser precision, and this comic isn't even close to that. It's worse because he basically HAD a laser, and then widened it's scope intentionally with a few well placed accessories. THAT's what pisses me off.

I'm trying to communicate with you my perspective. I understand and totally agree with what you said. (minus all the 'boy you're thickheaded' style insults to me.) Can you at least understand the perspective I'm working with?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I did not find this funny at all... I can't say I was offended, but I did not find it funny.

Considering your avatar, that is just *deliciously* ironic.

What? If nobody else was gonna bite...

I thought about it. Didn't do it for three reasons:

1) Too easy/obvious.

2) Afraid of Mod Wrath. Seriously, the Mod Edits in this thread are terrifying. Not to mention the Warnings and Bans.

3) You beat me two it.

Thus, rather than saying it myself, I will simply tip my hat to you and say Kudos.

OT: Hilarious comic! ^^

And I'm gonna leave it at that and check out the next 26 pages of thread....

 

[Overquoted]

(snip)

You're upset about bronies/whatever being insults. Got it. But it's the wrong place to be offended over that. It's completely tangential to the topic at hand. (Any sub-group that has funny behaviors or hobbies is bound to get mocked. See: romance novel readers, train set builders, nerds circa 1986, etc.) So I'm going to leave it at that and walk away.

People are people, if the comic wasn't SO savage I might not even care. You don't see any posts from me on the Eva comics you'll note and they're just as much 'people' as everyone listed here. However the comic is SO savage and touches on VERY sensitive ground in the worst most harsh way. I mean... a zimmerman joke by a white guy using a black mouthpiece really? Right after he uses him to (arguably) trivialize the experience of being black and how it might shape your character... I dunno... As far as I can see it's an ugly and gross thing to do, and I'll admit it it makes me kinda mad.

If you're going to be savage, you gotta have laser precision, and this comic isn't even close to that.

I'm trying to communicate with you my perspective. I understand and totally agree with what you said. (minus all the 'boy you're thickheaded' style insults to me.) Can you at least understand the perspective I'm working with?

The Zimmerman joke was deliberate. It was meant to show how some white guys sincerely don't understand why the Zimmerman incident was so upsetting to many black people. They see it as a 'stand your ground' issue while everyone who isn't white goes, "Oh, great. Another unarmed black kid just got murdered by a white guy." Because it's common. (Because of prejudices that black guys are going to attack white people or are far more likely to commit violent crime than anyone else.) And because when it happens, regardless of the situation, the WGDF is there. Always. Everywhere.

Just like in the comic.

 

[I.Muir]

Wait.....


...Doesn't Yahtzee wear a fedora?

:O

Spoiler: Mod edit: Please add spoilers for images!

A fedora too, not a trilby like you mostly see on peoples heads.

 

[knight steel]

umm, okay. If you guys are really this determined to get yourselves banned, might I suggest simply PMing a mod and asking for a banhammer straight to the face?

It's quicker and less painful than what's happening here.

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I mean if this was any other thread it would already be locked before it reached seven pages but for some reason you guys are keeping it open despite all the hostile flaming and attacks that are going on.

If you guys really care about all the attacking/warnings/bile just use your mod powers to close this thread and be done with it there no more discussion to be had.

That is unless you want the flame war to continue in order to gain more clicks and in turn earn more money from the advertisment's or perhaps you're not allowed to lock threads based on contributors works in which case why?

I'm not attacking you/the staff or anything I'm just genuinely curious as to why this has gone on for so long without definite action to stop it.

OP: I found the comic funny-Am I the only one who thinks the costume for the Omega guy is totally badass

 

[Shingro]

(snip)

You're upset about bronies/whatever being insults. Got it. But it's the wrong place to be offended over that. It's completely tangential to the topic at hand. (Any sub-group that has funny behaviors or hobbies is bound to get mocked. See: romance novel readers, train set builders, nerds circa 1986, etc.) So I'm going to leave it at that and walk away.

People are people, if the comic wasn't SO savage I might not even care. You don't see any posts from me on the Eva comics you'll note and they're just as much 'people' as everyone listed here. However the comic is SO savage and touches on VERY sensitive ground in the worst most harsh way. I mean... a zimmerman joke by a white guy using a black mouthpiece really? Right after he uses him to (arguably) trivialize the experience of being black and how it might shape your character... I dunno... As far as I can see it's an ugly and gross thing to do, and I'll admit it it makes me kinda mad.

If you're going to be savage, you gotta have laser precision, and this comic isn't even close to that.

I'm trying to communicate with you my perspective. I understand and totally agree with what you said. (minus all the 'boy you're thickheaded' style insults to me.) Can you at least understand the perspective I'm working with?

The Zimmerman joke was deliberate. It was meant to show how some white guys sincerely don't understand why the Zimmerman incident was so upsetting to many black people. They see it as a 'stand your ground' issue while everyone who isn't white goes, "Oh, great. Another unarmed black kid just got murdered by a white guy." Because it's common. (Because of prejudices that black guys are going to attack white people or are far more likely to commit violent crime than anyone else.) And because when it happens, regardless of the situation, the WGDF is there. Always. Everywhere.

Just like in the comic.

I very much disagree about this being 'the wrong place' again, he *had* a laser focus on his main topic (racism) and he *intentionally* expanded it to burn other groups. Exactly how we want to write the direct rules of 'association' and 'correlation isn't causation' and such. That's a really rough choice, and it's all the worse because he did it here in a topic that there was *no* way wasn't going to attract all sorts of ugly feelings, and a lot of sorta 'default' cheerleading. "Yeah! Fuck those racists they're assholes!" Is a super easy slam dunk. basically also saying "oh, and bronies and hipsters and awkward fat nerds too" while everyone is cheering a smite against racism strikes me as *unnecessarily* hateful.

You certainly understand the core of my complaint, I feel it's a bit more wide then that but I completely understand if we must agree to disagree about the topic. Judging from @GreyTheTick he seems to have gone from "yeah, screw you guys I should print t-shirts!" to "H-hey That's a totally legit question to ask a developer! Gosh! Lets talk about something else maybe? Dishonored? Devil May Cry?!" So unfortunately it's unlikely I'm going to get any real closure from the guy himself.

Still I appreciate you engaging me here at the end in a more civil manner. It's a half loaf from getting a response from his head as to his intentions to see how they measure up against the best and the worst they might be... but if that's all I get I'll take it, and I appreciate it.

 

[Overquoted]

You'd also be wrong. Those crimes are only indicative of hate crimes. There's an obvious bias in what gets reported as a hate crime and what does not. So basically your source is useless.

Useless, no. But violent crime by race doesn't prove motivational intent either. If I'm a criminal and live in an area where 87% of the population is white, and I commit say...30 crimes. What is the likelihood that many, if not a majority, of those were against white people? And not because I was specifically targeting them.

Secondarily, Table 43A of my initial source from the FBI indicates that although only ~13% of the population, over 40% of the murders committed, 25% of forcible rapes, and over 33% of all aggravated assaults were committed by African-Americans. That's against the whole population, white and black.

And? We already know about high-crime areas and ghettoization. I question how many of those crimes would fall into that category.

And it's a table of arrests. Arrests, not convictions. Do we really want to get into a conversation about the different ways the justice system treats whites and blacks? Cuz I promise, there's a wealth of evidence out there for bias against blacks.

But if your point is, "black people commit more crimes and are therefore [insert word]," I'm just going to stay away from that.

Further, in 2010 there were 447 Black on White murders and 218 White on Black murders. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

This solidifies my point using some of the original data that I linked.

I thought that maybe, just maybe, you might be able to figure out that the black on white crime was higher than white on black based on Table 42. But I suppose I shouldn't really give you that much credit.

Edit: Granted, the last table was only for 2010. More data probably needs to be compiled. And it doesn't say anything as to violent crime in general, but I would assert that the murder rate is indicative of the violent crime rate as well.

So your point is that more black-on-white crime exists than white-on-crime (for 2010). I'll refer to my earlier point about the likelihood of victims being of a specific race when they're a majority of the population. Of black offenders' murder victims, 15% were white. Of white people's victims, 7% were black. Meanwhile, whites were 72% of the population and blacks were 12%. Good news is, we like to murder our own race more often than not.

Bad news, not much was proven in either direction.

 

[thethird0611]

umm, okay. If you guys are really this determined to get yourselves banned, might I suggest simply PMing a mod and asking for a banhammer straight to the face?

It's quicker and less painful than what's happening here.

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I mean if this was any other thread it would already be locked before it reached seven pages but for some reason you guys are keeping it open despite all the hostile flaming and attacks that are going on.

If you guys really care about all the attacking/warnings/bile just use your mod powers to close this thread and be done with it there no more discussion to be had.

That is unless you want the flame war to continue in order to gain more clicks and in turn earn more money from the advertisment's or perhaps you're not allowed to lock threads based on contributors works in which case why?

I'm not attacking you/the staff or anything I'm just genuinely curious as to why this has gone on for so long without definite action to stop it.

OP: I found the comic funny-Am I the only one who thinks the costume for the Omega guy is totally badass

Im pretty sure, if I remember past threads correctly, that they dont lock featured content threads. I dont know the specifics of -why-, but im pretty sure thats the reason it hasnt been locked yet.

 

[Ishal]

Oh Jesus. If this thread doesn't turn into seven pages of arguing I'm going to be really disappointed.

Omega, alpha, and beta males. The Twilight Sparkle plushy was inspired, as was the fedora.

Sounds like quite the underestimation at this point...

I take it you're not disappointed?

Nope. The biggest draw to these strips is the comments. I knew this would be like poking a hornets nest, and look at it. Glorious. Simply glorious. It's the same people who always comment and argue in the gender issues and feminism threads. The same people who argue over it, gain no ground, and change nothing. Though some would say they make the forums worse by making it so other topics (potentially more fun, lighthearted ones, are eclipsed) and they may have point. After a while of perusing the topics due to my own masochistic tendencies, certain names/avatars start to stick. One of them got banned in this thread and more might well be on their way. Not bad.

The funniest part? For all the claiming that this is troll/flame bait, its those same people who comment again and again and make this thing go over 1000 posts. What's rule number 1 about trolls again? Oh... right...

See, some posters seem to think Grey is laughing at this and admiring his handy work. Dry washing his hands plotting evil schemes about he can make another one of these to incite flame wars. If he is indeed doing that, it because some of these posters have given him a reason to.

 

[scorptatious]

I'm loving the amount of rewritten versions of the comic. This needs to be a meme.

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.

After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.

 

[Caiphus]

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.

 

[knight steel]

snip

Well that a crummy system-If your going to lock systems you should be consistent on what you lock.
*SIGH*
But the Escapist has always had a bad case of double standard when it comes to contributors compared to the average Escapist user.
*SHRUG*
Still at least we get to watch a fun shit storm so I guess that's a bonus I suppose.
*Chews Popcorn*

 

[knight steel]

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.

Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.

 

[shrekfan246]

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.

Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.

Staff don't want Featured Content threads locked, most likely because it contributes to ad revenue and helps pay the content contributors.

The mods would get in trouble for locking it down, and the staff aren't going to be back in until Monday.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.

Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.

You're starting to ask too many questions around here kid. People go missing 'round here for that.

 

[ArithianFlame]

Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.

After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.

I was going to post a long and witty response to this comic/post explaining why I don't like it and why I feel it doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. Instead, I will embrace my cynicism, tip my hat, and walk into the sunset.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

1000 posts and 30 pages, you guys are terrible people nice work guys! Next time I want to show people how the internet debates controversial, multi-sided, morally ambiguous issues like basic racial equality I'll direct people to this thread.