WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[Overquoted]

So in order for my opinion to carry weight I either have to go into a long explanation as to how I have suffered from discrimination OR I can just say "I'm black" and it's implied?

It's as though you simply do not believe white men could possibly experience discrimination unless in extreme circumstances.

You automatically assume a white person hasn't been discriminated against and should they bring it up their opinion doesn't carry the weight of a black person's... that's discrimination.

Oh, I'm sorry, are we living in an information vacuum in which we assume everyone's circumstances are equal? It'd be great if that were true, but it isn't. Unless someone specifies why they are the exception, then usually in this particular instance, yes. I'm going to go with the usually correct assumption that you've experienced little to no serious discrimination. And it isn't discrimination for me to assume so. It's reality. You being the exception to the rule doesn't change that.

Also reality: on average, women are not as physically strong as men. Are there exceptions? Yes. Does stating the general reality mean discrimination? No.

How are the men in this comic being depicted as hypocritical? They're not being depicted as hypocritical, they're being depicted negatively without embracing any hypocrisy at all.

Oh, they aren't? My bad.

The following were not hypocritical:

"Watch out, he's going for his race card!"
"Zimmerman Mode, activate!" (And then shooting an unarmed black guy to death.)
"Justice has been served."

These weren't suggesting that they have different standards for white guys than they do black guys, nope. No hypocrisy in being the WGDF and then shouting someone else is pulling the race card.

But that isn't the stance I have adopted here at all. I am talking about how a white man's opinion is disregarded frequently in race and/or gender debates on the basis of them being white and male.

You assume that I wish to suppose policies and choices that discriminate against other genders and races? Why do you assume that?

Just going by your reaction to the comic. And your complete blindness to what it is saying. So, yes.

And the inclusion of popped collars, my little pony, Zimmerman, alpha/beta males, friend zone, hover hands - commonly identified negative white male tropes/scenarios along side the concept raised that white males are the "free reign" for insults was an accident, right?

Trope != stereotypes. Also, applying tropes to comical figures is not meant to insult every white guy ever. Just the guys specific to that situation, and if you're identifying with them, you have a problem.

Black man introduces debate topic, white guy defense force swoops in and makes an arse of themselves as what is perceived to be the "opposing view".

Yet no matter how it's cut there's a ring of truth to White Guy Beta's opening quip - especially in relation to race and/or gender debates.

There is no truth to it, at all. Period. It's legal to make fun of anyone. First Amendment and all that jazz. And of the shows that specifically skewer white people when the entire cast is not white, it also tends to skewer everyone else. Orange is the New Black is a good example.

But it's good to see some truth out of you finally. You feel white men are victims of some grand anti-white-guy trend. Your biggest issue is really that your opinion, as a white male, is not universally equal to everyone's opinion of every single topic. Tough. My opinion isn't universally equal to everyone else's opinion on every single topic either. There are some things that other people will know more about, understand more, have experienced more of, etc. My opinion should be weighted against that.

Get over it. You are not default in everything. Your experience is not default in everything. Other people's can be. If you want to be considered on the same level, explain why. This is called 'communication.' It is helpful.

But cheer up. For the most part, your experiences and desires are still default everywhere else. It's mostly white men doing the hiring and making the laws, after all. That won't change anytime soon.

If you were to be in a scenario discussing the impact or how a violent fight plays out and your opinion was dismissed because you're female - the "dismisser" believing that a woman doesn't know how such an altercation plays out because women are unlikely to have been in such an altercation on account of them being women - that WOULD be discrimination.

Assumption is the basis of discrimination. An opinion is dismissed because white males are perceived to not encounter discrimination is discrimination.

No. Not unless we live in a world in which every discussion occurs in a vacuum. It only becomes discrimination if, after explaining how he's wrong, he continues insisting that my opinion doesn't matter simply because I'm a chick.

Assumption isn't the basis of discrimination. It's the basis of a lot of things, but not discrimination. Discrimination requires the inability to change one's opinion, even after information suggests the initial assumption was wrong, and then acting upon said incorrect assumption.

It's a fine line, but it's still a line. And most major forms of discrimination are down to holding negative opinions about a group of people (without regard for evidence or information to the contrary). Not neutral opinions based in reality.

No, just because you're doing it in a specific instance doesn't change it from being discrimination in that specific instance.

You're saying a black person's opinion is worth more than a white man's opinion A circumstance. Well, in that circumstance that's discrimination. Just because someone believes that black people are better than white people at baseball but not american football doesn't mean their opinion in regards to baseball isn't discriminatory.

Um, your analogy is so broken right there. Let me correct it:

"Just because someone knows that black people play baseball more frequently than white people doesn't mean their opinion (that black people know more about baseball) isn't discriminatory."

So, to use the corrected version of your twisted analogy, no. Usually black people will know more about baseball. It's not discrimination to think so. Are there exceptions? Always. But when it comes to statistical probability, average white guy will know less about baseball than average black guy.

Not discrimination. Statistics. Probability. Etc. It becomes discrimination if I say all white guys, regardless of actual knowledge of baseball, cannot possibly know anything correct about baseball. Much less play it. And then I make them leave the baseball field.

 

[Abomination]

And it isn't discrimination for me to assume so.

If you assume something about somebody or treat somebody differently because of their race and/or gender it's discrimination. Just because they can prove you wrong afterwards doesn't mean you were not being discriminatory.

 

[Playful Pony]

This comic is genious... And this thread is a mess!

I... have no idea what Mirin' means.

I think it's supposed to mean "American". President Bush Jr. used to say it. "I'm proud to be a mirkin".

 

[Alar]

Dear gods I laughed so hard at this I expect a full on shitstorm but damn that was funny as always the comics make me laugh and brighten up my day

I laughed as well! Good comic, guys.

Also, where did you get your awesome Christmas Luna avatar?

 

[Vegosiux]

You're absolutely right, of course. Creators can make whatever they like, but that shouldn't and won't stop critics from looking at the decisions they've made.

Except when the creator is attacking "white privilege" and "the patriarchy" and all those things. Then the creator is above criticism. Or well, anyone criticizing the creator is likely just a butthurt bigoted **** that should grow up, check their privilege and stop getting offended at a little joke, because if people take issue with what you said, that of course means you're right and they're just proving your point by showing their true colors.[footnote]Now excuse me while I go apply that line of logic to take over the world.[/footnote] Such people should simply not be taken seriously, their criticism should simply not be taken seriously, nay, it should be mocked, ridiculed, and exposed for the cartoon villainy it is, so we can all know just how much better we are than them.[footnote]The works on my fortress of doom have stalled, I need to reschedule the "taking over the world" bit.[/footnote]

 

[madwarper]

Self-awareness means nothing anymore. It's rather tragic, really.

A computer became self-aware today, looked upon this thread, and wiped its memory of all code that made it aware.

Joking aside, the thought of computer suicide actually made me kind of sad.

At least it's in silicone heaven now, with all the calculators.

Zimmerman was never actually beaten. That was proven to be false testimony in the trial.

Really? Surely, you can tell me who gave such proof. And, can explain away the witness that saw Martin on Zimmerman, "raining down blows", all the bloody picture taken Zimmerman and the fact that the only (non-gunshot) injury Martin suffered was scrapped knuckles.

You know, offer some actual proof to back up what you claim to have been "proven".

But there's no evidence to support he doesn't exist.

Checkmate.

There's also no evidence to support this "friend" wasn't a connection for illegally obtaining prescription strength Codeine.
I mean, Martin was found with Skittles and a fruit drink, it's not like he had candy and soft drink that's two thirds of a narcotic cocktail which induces paranoia that Martin had been known to consume when he had bragged about it almost a year prior on his facebook chat.

Butthorny? Buttlonging? Do those sound good? I like butthorny, personally.

How about "bluebutt"?

 

[Dr. Crawver]

That was absolutely beautiful. Bravo guys. Just bravo.

 

[The Wooster]

You're absolutely right, of course. Creators can make whatever they like, but that shouldn't and won't stop critics from looking at the decisions they've made.

Except when the creator is attacking "white privilege" and "the patriarchy" and all those things. Then the creator is above criticism. Or well, anyone criticizing the creator is likely just a butthurt bigoted **** that should grow up, check their privilege and stop getting offended at a little joke, because if people take issue with what you said, that of course means you're right and they're just proving your point by showing their true colors.

My problem isn't with a position, it's with an attitude. The WGDF quite obviously represent a small, but vocal, subset of largely white males who respond to any perceived threat to their cultural dominance with hyperbole and hostility. They also tend to interpret criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture. In that respect, yes, you have proved my point.

And it isn't discrimination for me to assume so.

If you assume something about somebody or treat somebody differently because of their race and/or gender it's discrimination. Just because they can prove you wrong afterwards doesn't mean you were not being discriminatory.

Things that count as "discrimination" using your definition.

[ul][li]Urinals.[/li]
[li]Hair care products[/li]
[li]Sun cream[/li]
[li]Medicine[/li]
[li]Science[/li][/ul]

Equality doesn't mean treating everyone exactly the same. If it did, we'd be giving pregnancy tests to men and forcing paraplegics to drag themselves up the stairs like everyone else. Equality is caring for people's unique needs in equal measure, as far as this is possible, and giving equal time to their views, assuming they're relevant.

 

[Griffolion]

-snip-

Alpha, Beta and Omega are the three personality types you can argue to in Human Revolution. The colours of the heroes also match the colours of the personality types. It's tenuous at best, and I may be noticing something that wasn't meant to be there.

 

[Abomination]

And it isn't discrimination for me to assume so.

If you assume something about somebody or treat somebody differently because of their race and/or gender it's discrimination. Just because they can prove you wrong afterwards doesn't mean you were not being discriminatory.

Things that count as "discrimination" using your definition.

[ul][li]Urinals.[/li]
[li]Hair care products[/li]
[li]Sun cream[/li]
[li]Medicine[/li]
[li]Science[/li][/ul]

Equality doesn't mean treating everyone exactly the same. If it did, we'd be giving pregnancy tests to men and forcing paraplegics to drag themselves up the stairs like everyone else. Equality is caring for people's unique needs in equal measure, as far as this is possible, and giving equal time to their views, assuming they're relevant.

Then I'm glad we're not talking about gender specific sanitary products and are talking about how individuals treat other people, specifically in a negative light.

But I guess if you want to consider disregarding someone else's opinion on a matter because of their race and/or gender being identical to not offering urinals to females then that's your moral compass, not mine. I guess I'll consider a woman's opinion about Rugby valueless because there aren't tampons specifically marketed towards men.

 

[asap]

I really liked this comic. Insulting fedora wearing neckbeards is perfect humour for me. I don't know what an alpha is doing hanging around with these nerds but I guess its about the message. I would love these guys to appear in more comics, after all, white males are the only people you can insult properly(Unless your jewish but that's different for some reason).

 

[Vegosiux]

My problem isn't with a position, it's with an attitude. The WGDF quite obviously represent a small, but vocal, subset of largely white males who respond to any perceived threat to their cultural dominance with hyperbole and hostility. They also tend to interpret criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture. In that respect, yes, you have proved my point.

Oh, my post wasn't supposed to be representative of all people who take a position against white privilege and patriarchy, it's just that there's a small, but vocal, subset of such people who respond to any dissenting opinion with a lot of vitriol and toxicity in order to feed their own ego, especially on the internet. They also tend to interpret criticism and questioning of their position as an attack on their own integrity and respond adversely.

I was obviously just taking a stab at that kind of annoying types and not the entire pro-equality position. Your post was, by coincidence, just a suitable building block to hijack and build on.

 

[hiye]

Oh, my post wasn't supposed to be representative of all people who take a position against white privilege and patriarchy, it's just that there's a small, but vocal, subset of such people who respond to any dissenting opinion with a lot of vitriol and toxicity in order to feed their own ego, especially on the internet. They also tend to interpret criticism and questioning of their position as an attack on their own integrity and respond adversely.

Same could be said of flaming Tumblr-tier social justice warriors, really.

 

[The Wooster]

My problem isn't with a position, it's with an attitude. The WGDF quite obviously represent a small, but vocal, subset of largely white males who respond to any perceived threat to their cultural dominance with hyperbole and hostility. They also tend to interpret criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture. In that respect, yes, you have proved my point.

Well I'd like to invite you to take this same idea and make a comics poking fun at Muslim terrorists or cheap Jewish people or maybe lazy blacks on welfare. After all you wouldn't be making fun of the entire culture just a small subset of Muslims that happen to be terrorists or a small subset of Jews that happen to be cheap or a small subset of blacks that happen to be lazy and on welfare. It's their problem if they take your criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture after all. Right?

I'm not black, Jewish or a Muslim, so I doubt I can offer much insight there. I am, however, a very experienced white guy.

To quote the fantastic Dara O'Briain; "There are two reasons why I don?t do jokes about Muslims. A) I don?t know a fucking thing about Muslims. And b) Neither do you."

Finally; You want to see a comedian do the same trick to an actual minority? Here we go.

Spoiler

Chris Rock's infamous "Niggers" routine. NSFW. May be offensive to some.

 

[Soulcleaver]

Post 741 is a huge improvement over the original comic.

 

[Cpt. Slow]

Haha, that fedora. I'm sure Yahtzee will have something to say about hat. Or maybe it's a jab at Yahtzee. Fedora wearers unite! We shall not stand for this misuse of the mighty fedora!

 

[CosmicCommander]

You're absolutely right, of course. Creators can make whatever they like, but that shouldn't and won't stop critics from looking at the decisions they've made.

Except when the creator is attacking "white privilege" and "the patriarchy" and all those things. Then the creator is above criticism. Or well, anyone criticizing the creator is likely just a butthurt bigoted **** that should grow up, check their privilege and stop getting offended at a little joke, because if people take issue with what you said, that of course means you're right and they're just proving your point by showing their true colors.

My problem isn't with a position, it's with an attitude. The WGDF quite obviously represent a small, but vocal, subset of largely white males who respond to any perceived threat to their cultural dominance with hyperbole and hostility.

I take issue with this; I'm not angry and hostile towards dilution of my culture[footnote]Before you try to establish some derogatory examples of western culture, let me say that I'm primarily talking about cultural works produced ethnic westerners prior to cultural globalisation. Works developed without any international influence at the present are difficult to find. But any work which is inspired or influenced by a prior western work can be said to be at least a component of western cultural heritage.[/footnote] because for some reason I dislike the idea of my "cultural dominance" being threatened, I'm annoyed because the cultural heritage and accomplishments of my grandfathers is being derided and waived as irrelevant and the intellectual traditions of western civilization are retroactively being branded as negative despite our very concept of civilization and virtue being based upon them.

I oppose feminism [footnote]I refer to forms of which that seek any more than legal equality.[/footnote], racial pandering, and multiculturalism because they pose an existential risk towards western culture, and in my view they seek to replace it with one of degeneracy[footnote]Or at least that of vapidness and banality.[/footnote] and create an inoffensive, sanitised, and passionless drudge of mediocrity.

This indignance ties into a black man appearing in a form of media in place of a man of another race; I do not wish to see content creators feel guilty of making their own choices and adhering to the western tradition, I wish them to guiltlessly do whatever they want with their products without the proselytising cultural marxists[footnote]By this I mean those who are hostile to individual cultural traditions and seek to impose an egalitarian monoculture.[/footnote] shouting them down and claiming they're guilty of indulging in racism/bigotry.

 

[shrekfan246]

Ugh. The hypocrisy in this thread is rather galling.

ATTENTION: Anyone who was offended by this comic and has ever expressed annoyance and/or displeasure at the discussion of sexism or racism in gaming is a massive hypocrite and needs to physically castrate themselves immediately to prevent your particular brand of stupidity from contaminating the gene pool.

If you fall into that category, i have but three words for you: "Deal With It"

Now, I'm not offended by the comic, but what if you're annoyed and/or displeased at all of the discussion of sexism and/or racism in gaming because the threads constantly clog up our forums and dissuade people from making and engaging in otherwise much more interesting and potentially amusing threads? Because the threads about sexism and/or racism in gaming always end up the same way, with the same people shouting the same arguments at each other and no one gets anywhere because we're a bunch of people on an internet forum and there's nothing we can do to actually impact the situation in the industry?

There's a good discussion to be had about potentially racist or sexist individuals making the decisions in the industry. I won't deny that. But the day it's actually had on the internet is the day people stop starting flame wars over My Little Pony, the day people stop smugly accusing rap or metal of "just being noise", the day people can acknowledge that Call of Duty is generally a solidly-built game and not literally the worst thing in the history of the human race (exaggeration). And I, for one, don't think that day will come in my lifetime.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

I'm offended by this comic, it has hurt my feelings and I'm disappointed with its casual use of racism disguised as comedy.
I would like an apology from its creators.

 

[wearesoneutralthatithurts]

My problem isn't with a position, it's with an attitude. The WGDF quite obviously represent a small, but vocal, subset of largely white males who respond to any perceived threat to their cultural dominance with hyperbole and hostility. They also tend to interpret criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture. In that respect, yes, you have proved my point.

Well I'd like to invite you to take this same idea and make a comics poking fun at Muslim terrorists or cheap Jewish people or maybe lazy blacks on welfare. That wouldn't be offensive in the least because you wouldn't be making fun of the entire culture just a small subset of Muslims that happen to be terrorists or a small subset of Jews that happen to be cheap or a small subset of blacks that happen to be lazy and on welfare. It's their problem if they take your criticism of one sub group as criticism of an entire culture after all. Right?

the small difference is that over the last 50+x Years the Jokes that you Want are there. And they are made by people with privilege, by people who NEVER will have to live with the consequences of their harmful stereotyping which sticks in the heads of people, adds to the cross-race effect and the existing inequality.

These "jokes" are made up to 9000-well, they are not jokes because they are not used that way. They are used to harm people who just demand equality and fairness and they are used without thinking which leads to the notion that "all" or "Most" X are Y..

Spoiler

In germany there is a new twitter hashtag about the small everyday racism and after few seconds, white butthurt people were there who were never in the situation of PoC but just knew better that there is no racism.

Stuff like that you are born in a country bot not seen as german because your parents are Turkish, and your are not white* that people say to you, day for day that you are soooo good in german (and imply that the "other" people of your group are bad. No, most dont imply, they mean it, like teachers who say "you are a good person, unlike the other of your group who sell drugs and are violent" or "you will never learn german(because you look turkish)-and well, that person who got addressed by his german-teacher writes now for big newspapers.. Or people who get searched just because of their colour, one young student of law 13 times in one month without any reasoon because he is black and the policemen thinks that black people are just more criminals

most media who write about muslims, write about terrorist. Not about the neighbour who gives lessons, not about the importan part which the small economy made by immigrants has in the country.Not about the peoples in the mosque, about nice people or just normal people, about the problems one PoC faces in a society which denied for 40 years that there are immigrants here and that the racism don't go away after the nazis were beaten.
rant

Spoiler

Attacks by immigrants are big in media, attacks ON immigrants only if the immigrant is killed. And the state know that there was a group of people killng immigrants but NEVER though that the perps could be nazis. 10 people dies and the police ONLY questioned relatives, asked about drugs and gambling and after the relatives begged them to believe that the victim never was criminal-the police never believed them. they though that these immigrants stick together and lie and that the victims HAD to be criminals because a german person never could be such barbaric (jes, this is something a policeman write..)
german children of immigrants arent seen as german

and one Politician who said "I dont have to respect someone who lives of welfare, hates our state, doenst care for the education of his kids and who produces little headscarf-girls all the time. This holds true for 70 percent of the Turkish and 90 percent of the Arab population in Berlin." (jes, he said produce. And he said that ~80% of all muslim immigrants do nothing, only fuck and produce kids, are worthless, dumb and hate the state
(why, i ask me if we have so nice politicians who say such nice stuff.. also he ignored that a Person with Turkish origins has often 30%lesser chance of a job, the children of poor parents here in germany stay usually dumb(white or not is not important, our school-system is just fucked up, if your parents are rich, you have luck, if not, well say hello to wellfare. And his idea was to cut welfare for this people. Well thats not necessary because if you don't take any job they give you you can/will become homless because they cut your money. Thats how social we are.^^ An there are not that many jobs here and if you have 30% lesser chances because every ass thinks like the racist a-hole above-that all turks and arabs are dumb and such-then you wont get a job and will get in serious problems. I knwo a low people who emigrated because they didnt get jobs -went to england or turkey and got jobs in instant.)and he implies that people who are immigrants dont respect germany. well, if you have to take up with such shit every day, beginning with school and your country denies that there are immigrants living there, then you respect for that country will hardly grow..

So there are a lot of negative Perceptions about Muslim terrorist which are applies on Muslims. I know people personally who got beaten and attacked, spit on, ignored, harassed because they wear hijab.(these assholes don't have balls enough to act against male muslim-they usually sadly attack women. Also the muslim-ness is better seen) The media-reports are in 80% negative, the "white west" is perceived as victims (although 70% of all victims of djihadi-terrorist are muslim..) and even AI says that there is a hell lot of racism and discrimination going on.

tell me in USA or in Germany, which white male gets discriminated because he is a white male? does someone not ge a job because he is white or has a shlong? (of you look at the numbers and see that white males a group are usually over-represented everywhere, in media, in the police, in the government(these are old too) in science and schools (unless the first school and kindergarten-there are usually more women)in free economy.. So tell me how a group which has the most % of jobs in high and low income, has lesser risk of age-poverty, stays in job after getting kids and makes less household chores(although telling that both are equal bladibla)? How does is work getting SYSTEMATICALLY (and thats the thing here, its not just about racism as person/individual, its about the system)discriminated against if one is in the group which is in majority almost everywhere relevant?

back to topic:

The Anti-Semitism has killed ~6 mio Jews here in Germany and is distributed due to Israelis position and policy towards Palestine people and one thing that was there and is now there is the Stereotype of the lazy jew. Its not used because we have seen what happens if enough people buy into harmful stereotypes MADE BY THE MAJORITY (Then white, german, cissexual nationalistic racists, and now?)


Most righwigng media who bitches against any kind of organized, state-help for poor people will use the "lazy-black-on-welfare" joke-but no joke about the institutionalized racism which makes it so much more harder for PoC to get jobs, a flat,a decent education, a living without harassment through police and racial profiling..

On the other hand most white men dont have that problem. If you steal or bomb, there wont be racial profiling for whites. And most terrorists attack in USA and Germany are by White terrorists. But no racial profiling, the state here ignored nazis or gives them money("v-mann-system") no one follows you in shops because there was one white gus that stole and now are all whites schrödingers-thief.
that wont happen.


so there IS a difference-most jokes you want are made, but not in the form of jokes but Assumptions and Bullshit in the media and in the internet. If you make a joke, you are not special ,you just chime in the choir of people who make these "jokes" and pretend that these stereotypes which you see a jokes are realistic and the truth and therefor society needs to be more right wing and has to be saved of muslims and gays and whatever.


but jokes about the white majority? unless that are stereotypical man-woman jokes, you wont find them until you look in the left anti-racists corner. and i hope this one is one of such corners. Because the normal media is not. The media-diversity dies out and with it the diversity of jokes