WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[La Kias]

I didn't say that. in fact Samuel L. Jackson did the role very well but it wasn't about race here, it was the right actor for the job and Samuel L. Jackson did it beautifully. Furthermore Ultimate Nick Fury was designed to look like Samuel L. Jackson before he was given the role in the films, so there was a black iteration of the character which keeps within the canon.

I'm fully aware of all of that (see my last post).

It does serve to point out that there is nothing inherently WRONG with swapping out one race for another in any given character - even an established one. When they swapped Nick Fury's race from white to black going from the original continuity to the Ultimates universe, they did no harm to the character whatsoever.

Change is not inherently bad. Diversity is not inherently bad. Asking for a greater variety of videogame protagonists is not inherently bad. But the way some people around here are arguing, it sounds like it's a crime against humanity to consider anything that isn't a white male.

Then glad we agree

 

[thenoblitt]

There are several things wrong with calling Trayvon a "large black man". He was black, sure, but I wouldn't define him as "large". He was pretty skinny but made up for it by being tall. That hardly makes him an automatically threatening presence. My nephew is freakishly tall and one of the nicest kids you'll ever know. Please don't assume things based on a person's height. And Trayvon wasn't a "man". He was 17. Legally, still a kid.

All that aside, why would somebody have to be attacked by a "large black man" to understand Zimmerman's side of things? I know the answer to that is "because he's racist". But I don't share those racial fears. I can't relate to Zimmerman.

When someone is 17, whether or not he's legally a kid, he was selling drugs and starting fights, and had several gang related tattoos. I'm sure if you called him a kid he'd correct you. Also he was not that skinny. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&sa=N&rlz=2C1GIGM_enUS0536US0536&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=979&tbm=isch&tbnid=sj2cR3ZzmwTCDM:&imgrefurl=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/judge-to-rule-in-morning-about-trayvon-fighting-texts-after-contentious-nightime-hearing/&docid=JFxVxMiNY0jbXM&imgurl=http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Trayvon-Martin-cell-phone-photo-of-himself.jpg&w=635&h=476&ei=M_Y1UpbePKeYigLCsIGABQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:47,s:0,i:239&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=169&tbnw=226&start=33&ndsp=46&tx=88&ty=52

 

[JimB]

Please look into the case more before you spout this misinformed opinion off.

I have looked into it. If you actually want me to change my opinion, I suggest presenting me with the evidence you insist is there, since as it is you're playing he-said-she-said and asking me to take your word over my own. This is particularly unlikely to work when you declare yourself the winner at the end of this post, as if it's a contest.

I think the ones responsible are the guy who came up with the whole "stand your ground" law idea, the guy who came up with the idea of neighborhood watches and taking the monopoly on violence away from the police and general gun culture.

I agree all those things are contributory factors, but none of them remove Zimmerman's responsibility not to chase someone he apparently thinks is a dangerous criminal as if he, Zimmerman, is somehow qualified to deal with such a threat.

Let's have a large black man attack you and try to steal your firearm, and see what happens.

I do not grant your premise that I would be foolish enough to provoke such a situation in the first place.

Also, he was known for violence, a drug dealer, and was suspended from school for fighting.

Jesus Christ, are you sitting here telling me that punching a kid in school, selling a few grams of weed, and getting suspended from school justify fatally shooting a child? I've done two of those three things; do I get to live, or shall I report to the firing squad? And if I deserve to live, which of the three of those crimes is the tipping point after which a child too young to vote has proven himself too much a detriment to society to deserve to continue drawing breath and pumping blood?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, but I thought I'd post this picture. This thread, prior to this post, has exactly 1138 posts in it. Those who know their Star Wars history will know why seeing that made me happy. Those who don't: it's an in-joke put into a bunch of movies George Lucas had something to do with, based on the title of his first film, THX 1138. Having it pop up as the number of posts in a discussion thread is /exactly/ the kind of tiny background detail it usually gets slipped in as. If only this meant that the Star Wars universe was real, and we were a part of it...

 

[JimB]

I did however find the edit rather funny.

Spoiler

That edit really confuses me. Why do people keep acting like the black dude (whose name, sadly, I have forgotten, if ever I knew it at all) ever said race doesn't matter? Or even implied it? He pretty obviously didn't, since he thinks this or that character ought to be black. That edit is mocking him for hypocritically betraying a position that isn't even his own, but rather that of the people arguing him. I don't get it.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Is it just me... Or has Grey gone from a genuinely funny writer to a boring, preachy writer who forgot what comedy is? I mean, I get that plenty of people find this strip, and most of the previous "preachy" ones, funny but I don't see why.

I don't know if it bothers me because the internet seems overly cynical and shitty lately or if maybe I just don't care for this kind of "humour" any more, or what...

Anyway, Corey's art is fantastic as always.

 

[thenoblitt]

Please look into the case more before you spout this misinformed opinion off.

I have looked into it. If you actually want me to change my opinion, I suggest presenting me with the evidence you insist is there, since as it is you're playing he-said-she-said and asking me to take your word over my own. This is particularly unlikely to work when you declare yourself the winner at the end of this post, as if it's a contest.

I think the ones responsible are the guy who came up with the whole "stand your ground" law idea, the guy who came up with the idea of neighborhood watches and taking the monopoly on violence away from the police and general gun culture.

I agree all those things are contributory factors, but none of them remove Zimmerman's responsibility not to chase someone he apparently thinks is a dangerous criminal as if he, Zimmerman, is somehow qualified to deal with such a threat.

Let's have a large black man attack you and try to steal your firearm, and see what happens.

I do not grant your premise that I would be foolish enough to provoke such a situation in the first place.

Also, he was known for violence, a drug dealer, and was suspended from school for fighting.

Jesus Christ, are you sitting here telling me that punching a kid in school, selling a few grams of weed, and getting suspended from school justify fatally shooting a child? I've done two of those three things; do I get to live, or shall I report to the firing squad? And if I deserve to live, which of the three of those crimes is the tipping point after which a child too young to vote has proven himself too much a detriment to society to deserve to continue drawing breath and pumping blood?

Why doesn't anyone understand that TRAYVON MARTIN TRIED TO UNHOLSTER AND TAKE GEORGE ZIMMERMANS GUN, THATS RIGHT THERE IS GROUNDS ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THEY ARE GOING TO SHOOT YOU. HAD HE BEEN GOD DAMN 30 NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED, A 17 IS MORE CAPABLE THEN PEOPLE GIVE CREDIT, HE WASN'T SOME KID HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING. STOP BEING SO IGNORANT.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/13/george-zimmerman-found-not-guilty-in-trayvon-martin-murder-trial/

here is a decent post that isn't to biased, laying everything out flat, it wasn't even a racial crime, the only person being racist was trayvon calling him a whitey and a cracker.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I did however find the edit rather funny.

Spoiler

That edit really confuses me. Why do people keep acting like the black dude (whose name, sadly, I have forgotten, if ever I knew it at all) ever said race doesn't matter? Or even implied it? He pretty obviously didn't, since he thinks this or that character ought to be black. That edit is mocking him for hypocritically betraying a position that isn't even his own, but rather that of the people arguing him. I don't get it.

Don't know if it works that way. If the black guy[footnote]I'm not sure if he /did/ have a name -- the text at the bottom of the comic kind of implies he was created for the strip, unless he was some minor character from really early on, back when Scary Penny and that bear still existed[/footnote] thinks race /does/ matter, it makes him kind of racist himself. Typically the pro-side to the argument over whether it's okay to change the race of established characters is based in the whole idea of race only mattering if it's intrinsic to the character (So for example, no white Martin Luther King, and no black Abraham Lincoln. No Irish Magneto or white Luke Cage, either, for that matter), and therefore it's okay to do it with characters whose race wasn't a big deal to begin with. It's often used as a not-so-subtle way of implying anyone who takes issue with such a change (and therefore thinks race /does/ matter) is racist. Which then begs the question of why there's such resistance to the resistance, if it doesn't matter, as implied in the edited comic. If Grey had the black guy taking the position that race did, in fact, matter, the comic would make less sense, because that's not usually the position people take when they're trying to defend a race swapped character. I mean I'm sure it's been done, it's just not common.

 

[Amir Kondori]

In a conflict he created by stalking a teenager who had committed no crime.

a) Zimmerman stalked no one. Look up the word, or at the very least, my previous posts that spell out the word's definition.
b) Zimmerman becoming suspicious of, exiting his car, and following Martin is also not a crime.

which, as best I recall, it doesn't.

Then, I suggest you go back and watch the tapes of the trial.

I think you're confusing internet Caucasian defenders with hardcore neo-Nazis and Klansmen if you think they'd reject George Zimmerman and his tactics based on him only being half-white.

Yes, because getting your head beaten into the ground is quite an effective tactic.

I hate to delve into this mess but he only got out of the car to read a street sign to give his location to the 911 operator. He didn't get out to follow Martin. It was actually when he got out to read the sign that Martin had doubled back on him and jumped him.

 

[DefZeppelin]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

TRAYVON MARTIN TRIED TO UNHOLSTER AND TAKE GEORGE ZIMMERMANS GUN

Neither Trayvon's DNA nor fingerprints were found on the gun. I don't even know where you're getting this claim from.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

The comic's supposed to be about white stereotypes (emphasis on white and stereotypes) racially discriminating against blacks. The Zimmerman thing breaks the pattern of the comic.

I think you're confusing internet Caucasian defenders with hardcore neo-Nazis and Klansmen if you think they'd reject George Zimmerman and his tactics based on him only being half-white.

I don't think I am. I don't think they would either.

 

[Bishop99999999]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

I guess that means you're a racist.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

I think what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't feel like an open discussion forum when it comes to these kinds of issues. It feels like an incestuous orgy of idea (yes singular) that everyone is mad at you (me) for interrupting. I am getting bolder with my tone and language because I'm starting to not care whether I'm welcome here anymore, it's just a drop in the ocean of snark & rudeness as far as I can tell.

Yeah, it's hard not to get a sense that if you're so far off-foot of popular opinion that every discussion seems more like an "us vs them" situation, rather than a meeting of minds or opinions or what have you. Personally, I don't participate in threads too often lately simply because everything I could say has already been said, or would get lost in the shuffle. My posting style died with the smaller populations, but I still like discussing stuff at times. Even if it's like trying to resolve a fire with a flamethrower at times.

I think that's just human nature. Even with some older users that I'd spent a lot of time with when I first joined. I've had some discussions with PurpleRain recently that are practically nothing like the discussions I had with him previously. He's quite different since moving to Canada, which I believe has changed in part because of who he's spent time with. People change, and as a community, a people can change to. Not always better, not always worse, but always different.

Still, sorry to hear you aren't enjoying the company so much recently.

 

[Vegosiux]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

I guess that means you're a racist.

Nah, it means you're part of the "CIS white male scum" problem. That's not according to the comic, of course, but according to the "If you don't find this funny (or are offended by it, then you're part of the problem" crowd. I'm not going to single them out, but you can find several individuals taking up that kind of a smug attitude in the thread. [footnote]I bet they're also all wearing fedoras the way you're SUPPOSED to wear them.[/footnote] And that, that is the true irony here, how some people think they come across as "progressive" by behaving in a dismissive, derisive manner.

I might find the comic unfunny and not exactly in good taste; but it's left me lukewarm at beat(worst?), but some reactions were just so smug and condescending I actually did get a little hissy. Now, of course, trying to explain the difference between the two didn't get me anywhere, either, so, yeah. My involvement in the thread has been, for a while, more true to the stated spirit of the comic - I do parody!

Also, PS: Sorry for hijacking your post >.> I tend to do that all too often.

 

[generals3]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

 

[BlackIronGuardian]

"Zimmerman mode activate"?

What does Bob Dylan have to do with any of this?

Tight reference, guy.

 

[TimeLord]

Keep fighting the good fight Grey, it's not like you will ever pay the price for it like those who are actually discriminated.

Talking and being part of the fight are really different things. YES, there is a difference between a feminist male talking big and an actual female feminist who lives on her skin what discrimination is like. Same for a totally not-racist white man who can advocate, speak, demonstrate, prove but NEVER risk NOTHING.

That's your hypocrisy. It's too easy and comfortable like this.

(go ahead, send me another warning for telling you the truth in the face)

There's a difference between "telling the truth" and insulting a contributor. You can do one without having to do the other.

 

[thenoblitt]

TRAYVON MARTIN TRIED TO UNHOLSTER AND TAKE GEORGE ZIMMERMANS GUN

Neither Trayvon's DNA nor fingerprints were found on the gun. I don't even know where you're getting this claim from.

considering they gave him his gun back and didnt confiscate for 40 days, im sure it had been cleaned by that time.

 

[Shadowstar38]

-snip-

Actually, I think the ones responsible are the guy who came up with the whole "stand your ground"-law idea, the guy who came up with the idea of neighborhood watches and taking the monopoly on violence away from the police and general gun culture.

Trayvon Martin didn't deserve to die for being afraid of a suspicious guy following him in the middle of the night and attacking him in what he well likely thought to be self defense.

George Zimmerman didn't deserve to go to jail for murder for being a vigilante asshead which resulted in him killing a boy in self defence.

In my language there are two different words for "justice" as in subjective justice (for example a bully beating up a small kid and then getting beat up by the small kid's big brother) and the actual justice given out by a court on the basis of law.

Sometimes the first kind is not to be had, it just doesn't exist and a court cannot give that kind of justice. A court can only give the kind of justice that fits between two book covers. Zimmerman being completely innocent is that kind of justice.

If that book is stupid though then that's on the conscience of everyone. Every single man and woman in Florida.

Lets have a large black man attack you and try and steal your fire arm, and lets see what happens? Also he known for violence, a drug dealer, and was suspended from school for fighting, also he initiated the fight, after running away. Lets see what you do, are you gonna just let him shoot you?

No. But then again, I wouldn't be carrying a gun while antagonizing teenagers.