I believe there ought to be a little less hate on Naruto, and more hate against bleach as a copy of dragon ball.
Why All the Hate on Naruto?
- Thread starter Thaius
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I hate the Good vs. Evil view. There are no shades of gray only utmost. And the acting judge is Naruto.
First there was Haku, who was two separate persons, maskedguy(Evil) and girlyguy(Good). When Naruto realised that the masked guy was Haku, Haku became "Good".
Second we were presented with Gaara, who was Evil and was Evil to the very end, until Naruto realised that Gaara was just like Naruto, and that ment he was "Good".
And lastly we get Sasuke, whos Naruto's bf, but is actually Evil, so now Naruto's head is full of shit.
The story is playing too long with this idea! Its utterly boring!
First there was Haku, who was two separate persons, maskedguy(Evil) and girlyguy(Good). When Naruto realised that the masked guy was Haku, Haku became "Good".
Second we were presented with Gaara, who was Evil and was Evil to the very end, until Naruto realised that Gaara was just like Naruto, and that ment he was "Good".
And lastly we get Sasuke, whos Naruto's bf, but is actually Evil, so now Naruto's head is full of shit.
The story is playing too long with this idea! Its utterly boring!
I just read the manga. I avoid all the crappy filler. And I'm as far along in the story as I can possibly be. I use to watch the anime, but I got so sick of the filler. It wasn't just a lot of it, but it was really bad and pointless. Not even the same show, in my view.PureChaos said:
Also, Holy Crap! Mini Rasenshuriken! That's just evil.
To be fair, that was just to fill airtime in both series. People always joke about how long characters power up in DBZ, but I got curious and checked the manga. Guess what. They don't spend pages powering up. They just do. If memory serves, Frieza basically just said "Now, I'll fight you with 50% of my full power" and then he was fighting with 50% of his full power. They even did it in Bleach. How long did it take Ichigo to use his Bankai for the first time? Like 10 minutes. The manga did that in about 2 pages.Luciean said:
I'm not saying that it's not pretty garbage, but don't blame the series for that. That's the fault of the people who though translating an ongoing manga series into a anime was a good idea.
I dislike all anime equally (I like some, but they are few and far between), Naruto just showed me that.
I think its the;
Poor writing.
Dull episodes.
Unnecessary monologuing.
Poor animation.
Cookie cutter characters. (say that 5x fast)
Dull 'Evil cuz I'm Evil' villains.
Shallow characters. (Literally no one does anything surprising throughout the whole series)
Unintelligent characters. (The only solution to anything is to beat the other guy up)
Etc.
Anyway, I'd imagine that that has something to do with it.
I think its the;
Poor writing.
Dull episodes.
Unnecessary monologuing.
Poor animation.
Cookie cutter characters. (say that 5x fast)
Dull 'Evil cuz I'm Evil' villains.
Shallow characters. (Literally no one does anything surprising throughout the whole series)
Unintelligent characters. (The only solution to anything is to beat the other guy up)
Etc.
Anyway, I'd imagine that that has something to do with it.
The next person who complains that "they're not ninjas" may be required to pay a fine of watching all the Naruto fillers back-to-back without eating or sleeping. A fate worse than death, indeed.
I find it rather amusing when people say that Naruto or Bleach are cliche shounen. At their inception, they weren't, though they then codified a new cliche for future shows. Both shows have also had their characters Flanderized and gradually drained of personality as well, turning them into cliches.
Anyway, the problems come from the filler, yes, and also this: Naruto Uzumaki the character does not like very cool. There's just no way around it. He looks like a dumbass because, you know, he is (until Kishimoto realized it wasn't interesting to have him be a dumbass and turned him into a conventional shounen hero). And, of course, the early episodes are, for the most part, the show's own High School Alternate Universe anime.
What Naruto does have is a host of interesting secondary characters. Too many, possibly, as a result of it being a jillion episodes long. Zabuza and Haku from the Land of Waves arc are the originals and what many people may be most familiar with. Shikamaru is (used to be) a fun character. Neji Hyuga was fantastic. The Sound Four were only interesting in terms of their abilities, but Kimimaro was quite good. Orochimaru was interesting as well, until it gradually dawned on you that he spent two years bedridden getting acclimated to a new body and then two years bedridden with the body rejecting him. Not exactly action material.
Itachi and Kisame were the first of the Akatsuki introduced, and Itachi Uchiha is, of course, a fan favorite. One of my favorites as well. Studio Pierrot likes him as well, I think, because they LOVE flashing back to his speech to Sasuke after the massacre. The Akatsuki are a big choose your favorite menagerie. Sasori was amazing despite existing solely to convince us that Sakura is no longer useless. Deidara is something of a dark horse candidate (hm). Then there are those two guys who like a little bit off, like they were designed for a filler arc (you can see they're REAL memorable). I just realized I can't remember everybody, so I suppose I'll round it off with my favorite character: "In attendance: the Six Paths of Pain!" I was very disappointed as he suffered from Monster Decay, becoming weaker in each subsequent appearance.
EDIT: Probably the most important thing in this post. Naruto DOES say "Believe it" in the Japanese version. Specifically, he says "dattebayo". Not knowing a lick of Japanese I can't tell you what it means, but from what I've gleaned, "believe it" is a kind of okayish translation. Oh, and he says it at the end of ALMOST ALL of his sentences, the way 'cute' anime girls end their sentences with "desu".
I find it rather amusing when people say that Naruto or Bleach are cliche shounen. At their inception, they weren't, though they then codified a new cliche for future shows. Both shows have also had their characters Flanderized and gradually drained of personality as well, turning them into cliches.
Anyway, the problems come from the filler, yes, and also this: Naruto Uzumaki the character does not like very cool. There's just no way around it. He looks like a dumbass because, you know, he is (until Kishimoto realized it wasn't interesting to have him be a dumbass and turned him into a conventional shounen hero). And, of course, the early episodes are, for the most part, the show's own High School Alternate Universe anime.
What Naruto does have is a host of interesting secondary characters. Too many, possibly, as a result of it being a jillion episodes long. Zabuza and Haku from the Land of Waves arc are the originals and what many people may be most familiar with. Shikamaru is (used to be) a fun character. Neji Hyuga was fantastic. The Sound Four were only interesting in terms of their abilities, but Kimimaro was quite good. Orochimaru was interesting as well, until it gradually dawned on you that he spent two years bedridden getting acclimated to a new body and then two years bedridden with the body rejecting him. Not exactly action material.
Itachi and Kisame were the first of the Akatsuki introduced, and Itachi Uchiha is, of course, a fan favorite. One of my favorites as well. Studio Pierrot likes him as well, I think, because they LOVE flashing back to his speech to Sasuke after the massacre. The Akatsuki are a big choose your favorite menagerie. Sasori was amazing despite existing solely to convince us that Sakura is no longer useless. Deidara is something of a dark horse candidate (hm). Then there are those two guys who like a little bit off, like they were designed for a filler arc (you can see they're REAL memorable). I just realized I can't remember everybody, so I suppose I'll round it off with my favorite character: "In attendance: the Six Paths of Pain!" I was very disappointed as he suffered from Monster Decay, becoming weaker in each subsequent appearance.
EDIT: Probably the most important thing in this post. Naruto DOES say "Believe it" in the Japanese version. Specifically, he says "dattebayo". Not knowing a lick of Japanese I can't tell you what it means, but from what I've gleaned, "believe it" is a kind of okayish translation. Oh, and he says it at the end of ALMOST ALL of his sentences, the way 'cute' anime girls end their sentences with "desu".
Figured Id throw in my pov since you asked.
I used to love the show, but I only got a few season into it. I will add the fact I HATE the dub but I actually found the show WAY before it was popular in the states. In fact the only way to get the DVD's was a bootleg copy I found on ebay years ago. Weird eh?
Filler: Yes, this is an issue, and as much as you dont want to hear about it its a huge one. I shouldnt have to shift through episodes in order to find the meaningful ones. This show is supposed to entertain me, not make me do work, or be forced to suffer through crap when I dont want to do said work. I shouldnt feel punished.
The length: This series is ungodly long. Now before you ***** at me I also dont care for Bleach or Death Note or all those other "shonen jump" series. It might be long purely because of the filler, but its still way too long to keep my interest. This will tie into my next complaint, but I just dont give enough of a damn about the characters to keep watching for 200+ episodes. I also dont have enough TIME. (Funny enough I actually do things like go to college and work and converse with human beings. Weird...) The series would have been a lot better being a lot shorter, and less convoluted.
Characters and Characterization: There might be a ton of characterization, I believe there are for this series. However I just dont care about the characters themselves. Sasuke is the emo ***** who angsts every moment. Naruto is the really annoying, loud, "bubbly" character I hate in all video games and anime. He's smart mouthed, annoying, and obnoxious. I would hate his character in real life, and I hate him here. I dont find anything redeeming about him. Sakura... I wont get into her and how much she bugs me. They might evolve later, they might grow, but they just didnt keep my interest. I didnt CARE about how they evolved, and stretching it out didnt hold my interest.
Animation: Admit tingly it's not terribly animated. Definitely not the worst Ive seen so little complaint there.
Story Arcs: In my opinion, they just got boring. I could never figure out how the great Kakashi (Im remembering all this from years ago mind you so I might make errors. Forgive me) is so powerful, and yet Naruto seems to be able to thwart him almost always. What I mean is this, example: The first movie I believe? Once again its been a few years. All I remember is Kakashi having trouble with some lacky of the main bad dude, and Naruto single handedly being able to defeat the most powerful foe. This occurs a lot in these kinds of series as the main character grows to become more powerful than the master, but there was little build up to this point. I would understand when Naruto was older, however as far as I remember he was still a young kid during this. He is doing things and having abilities that are not believable to me during that story arc.
Ill end this. I just dont care for the show and wince whenever I hear of it. Throw me baccano, durarara, anything that holds intelligence. I just cant stand more of these "mass chapter" sell outs.
I used to love the show, but I only got a few season into it. I will add the fact I HATE the dub but I actually found the show WAY before it was popular in the states. In fact the only way to get the DVD's was a bootleg copy I found on ebay years ago. Weird eh?
Filler: Yes, this is an issue, and as much as you dont want to hear about it its a huge one. I shouldnt have to shift through episodes in order to find the meaningful ones. This show is supposed to entertain me, not make me do work, or be forced to suffer through crap when I dont want to do said work. I shouldnt feel punished.
The length: This series is ungodly long. Now before you ***** at me I also dont care for Bleach or Death Note or all those other "shonen jump" series. It might be long purely because of the filler, but its still way too long to keep my interest. This will tie into my next complaint, but I just dont give enough of a damn about the characters to keep watching for 200+ episodes. I also dont have enough TIME. (Funny enough I actually do things like go to college and work and converse with human beings. Weird...) The series would have been a lot better being a lot shorter, and less convoluted.
Characters and Characterization: There might be a ton of characterization, I believe there are for this series. However I just dont care about the characters themselves. Sasuke is the emo ***** who angsts every moment. Naruto is the really annoying, loud, "bubbly" character I hate in all video games and anime. He's smart mouthed, annoying, and obnoxious. I would hate his character in real life, and I hate him here. I dont find anything redeeming about him. Sakura... I wont get into her and how much she bugs me. They might evolve later, they might grow, but they just didnt keep my interest. I didnt CARE about how they evolved, and stretching it out didnt hold my interest.
Animation: Admit tingly it's not terribly animated. Definitely not the worst Ive seen so little complaint there.
Story Arcs: In my opinion, they just got boring. I could never figure out how the great Kakashi (Im remembering all this from years ago mind you so I might make errors. Forgive me) is so powerful, and yet Naruto seems to be able to thwart him almost always. What I mean is this, example: The first movie I believe? Once again its been a few years. All I remember is Kakashi having trouble with some lacky of the main bad dude, and Naruto single handedly being able to defeat the most powerful foe. This occurs a lot in these kinds of series as the main character grows to become more powerful than the master, but there was little build up to this point. I would understand when Naruto was older, however as far as I remember he was still a young kid during this. He is doing things and having abilities that are not believable to me during that story arc.
Ill end this. I just dont care for the show and wince whenever I hear of it. Throw me baccano, durarara, anything that holds intelligence. I just cant stand more of these "mass chapter" sell outs.
Okay, so this basically sums up my feelings about Naruto. But why does your avatar have to be Cell? The single villain/character I hated the most from pretty much any anime. And not in the way you are supposed to hate villains. I just flat hated his character.chaosyoshimage said:
The problem isn't so much with the filler itself. The problem is the filler is almost always boring. Nothing can really happen in the filler, because they can't really change anything in any meaningful way as it will no doubt contradict the manga when it comes around. No matter what happens in the filler, the status quo has to ALWAYS be restored at the end of it to allow the series to be continued from the manga.Thaius said:
And why does your avatar have to be Cloud? My single most hated character from pretty much any video game, Zack was way cooler. Also, Cell has a DS in this picture, it's awesome.Saltyk said:
mostly i blame sasuke. However awesome he may or may not be at the moment to undertstand you have to watch from the beginning and from episode 1 to where i stopped watching in shippuden (just after the first arc) He is a emo prick. He is a solid wall that people tend to like/care about for no discernible reason.
However weak the argument may be, the english dub is awful. And not, "oh as soon i get use to it and story starts moving i won't care" awful, no "the this raping my ears, does some poor bastard actually own this terrible voice" awful.
There is way to much filler in the original series regardless of how good the filler may be.
They claim to be ninjas, but they aren't. They are mages that are able to jump high.
Deus ex machinima. and the use thereof.
It's long. like really long.
It's popular. There will always be people who hate stuff simply because it's popular.
EDIT; Looking back at the comments i suppose i should mention this is why i stopped watching/why i think people don't like naruto. kinda goes without saying being but saying it anyway; These are my opinions/assumptions.
However weak the argument may be, the english dub is awful. And not, "oh as soon i get use to it and story starts moving i won't care" awful, no "the this raping my ears, does some poor bastard actually own this terrible voice" awful.
There is way to much filler in the original series regardless of how good the filler may be.
They claim to be ninjas, but they aren't. They are mages that are able to jump high.
Deus ex machinima. and the use thereof.
It's long. like really long.
It's popular. There will always be people who hate stuff simply because it's popular.
EDIT; Looking back at the comments i suppose i should mention this is why i stopped watching/why i think people don't like naruto. kinda goes without saying being but saying it anyway; These are my opinions/assumptions.
HA. I wasn't the only one subjected to that. It made me watch behind a closed hand and a little peek through my fingers.Soviet Heavy said:
Never hated Naruto myself, but I can see WHY people dislike it, combination of bad first dubbing/impressions, filler, some animation flaws (That team that takes over every 4 episodes or so really screws with my head).
I like Naruto.
It is hated by elitists because it is popular. Don't you know hating popular things makes you seem intelligent and well-educated?
It is hated by elitists because it is popular. Don't you know hating popular things makes you seem intelligent and well-educated?
Don't you know that people who say "people only hate it because it is popular" are just people who don't want to admit other people might actually have valid reasons for disliking something they like?Bloodstain said:
That's what I thought to but if your willing to give the show some time Naruto really grows on you and seeing him progress is so satisfying but that's only if your willing to give the show some time and some people just can't do that. I can see why investing 200+ hours into a shows is not an easy thing to do and I can see why people don't like it also I don't watch fillers at all and for the last thing I would like to refer to you to my good friend tv tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HighlyVisibleNinjaPoomermon said:
Naruto become one of the most popular shows out there, thanks to it becoming accessible to so many kids since it aired on Cartoon Network before those runts had to go to bed. Because of that, anime in western cultures became associated with now not just Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and Yu-gi-oh, but now Naruto. Naruto, a show about some whiny kid with ninja powers who ultimately was an unlikeable and unrelateable character. A complete idiot with no sign of really changing, other than becoming shounen hero by the time Sasuke turned all evil for whatever reason.
It muddied anime's image in the west a little more, as well featured a plotline that wasn't too unique, and could be summed up with "shounen shit". Similarly, the action in that show was also very shounen, and didn't really have many limitations as much as I saw into it, so it was reasonable for characters to pull Deus ex Machinas because of some secret technique they all seemed to be able to pull out of nowhere. Hint: Deus ex Machinas have nothing to do with strategy as much as they have to do with upping the anti, raking more fan interest and more viewers more than anything. It's what killed Dragonball Z.
Also, isn't "Coming-of-Age story" just something librarians tacked onto books to make it more appealing to the kids with Teen-complex (the liking of something due to some sort of inherent complexity despite how ridiculous it maybe, including but not limited to the use of over-complex/archaic vocabulary)? Sure, the kid stops acting like an idiot after a couple hundred episodes, but does that making it a Coming of Age story, or rather the producers realizing "Hey, this character-type is bad for the serious we're trying to go for now, maybe we should stop that." Naruto from what I've heard was intended to be a bit of a comedy in its first volume before shifting towards shounen-action thanks to its powers and such.
And sure, you can skip over the filler NOW, but imagine having to sit through that for weeks and weeks on end when it was still airing. What kind of ego do you have to have to have expected people to watch through so many episodes that amount to nothing? It could've done what every other sane manga/Visual Novel series adaptation does and take a break from production while waiting for new material. Instead, they made the filler. Why? To rake in more viewers and cash, which just shows how shallow of a show it really is.
I don't think the "popularity of monologues" should be a valid point. What's probably going on instead is that the monologues in Naruto are either feel forced or are half-baked. Monologues can be good, just not in the midst of battle while talking to your enemy.
And why does it figure that you also like Death Note?
EDIT:
Not sure exactly what dattebayo means, though I'm absolutely sure it doesn't mean "Believe it." (The closest translation I get to something that makes sense is "We must stand". Interpret that as you like. I'm basing this off of 「立ってばよ」 by the way.)
Also, "desu" is NOT just used by "'cute' anime girls", but is a formal ending to a sentence, usually translated as "It is". I don't see how this can be the most important part of your post other than to show the discreditably your defense of that phrase is.
It muddied anime's image in the west a little more, as well featured a plotline that wasn't too unique, and could be summed up with "shounen shit". Similarly, the action in that show was also very shounen, and didn't really have many limitations as much as I saw into it, so it was reasonable for characters to pull Deus ex Machinas because of some secret technique they all seemed to be able to pull out of nowhere. Hint: Deus ex Machinas have nothing to do with strategy as much as they have to do with upping the anti, raking more fan interest and more viewers more than anything. It's what killed Dragonball Z.
Also, isn't "Coming-of-Age story" just something librarians tacked onto books to make it more appealing to the kids with Teen-complex (the liking of something due to some sort of inherent complexity despite how ridiculous it maybe, including but not limited to the use of over-complex/archaic vocabulary)? Sure, the kid stops acting like an idiot after a couple hundred episodes, but does that making it a Coming of Age story, or rather the producers realizing "Hey, this character-type is bad for the serious we're trying to go for now, maybe we should stop that." Naruto from what I've heard was intended to be a bit of a comedy in its first volume before shifting towards shounen-action thanks to its powers and such.
And sure, you can skip over the filler NOW, but imagine having to sit through that for weeks and weeks on end when it was still airing. What kind of ego do you have to have to have expected people to watch through so many episodes that amount to nothing? It could've done what every other sane manga/Visual Novel series adaptation does and take a break from production while waiting for new material. Instead, they made the filler. Why? To rake in more viewers and cash, which just shows how shallow of a show it really is.
I don't think the "popularity of monologues" should be a valid point. What's probably going on instead is that the monologues in Naruto are either feel forced or are half-baked. Monologues can be good, just not in the midst of battle while talking to your enemy.
And why does it figure that you also like Death Note?
EDIT:
You're right, you do not know a lick of Japanese.Dr. Cakey said:
Not sure exactly what dattebayo means, though I'm absolutely sure it doesn't mean "Believe it." (The closest translation I get to something that makes sense is "We must stand". Interpret that as you like. I'm basing this off of 「立ってばよ」 by the way.)
Also, "desu" is NOT just used by "'cute' anime girls", but is a formal ending to a sentence, usually translated as "It is". I don't see how this can be the most important part of your post other than to show the discreditably your defense of that phrase is.
Here's a suggestion for everyone. You have been warned, there will be spoilers through this entire post.
First, I want everyone to read the manga up to the point wher Sasuke kills Itachi (or watch the anime, sans the filler). Then go out and find the entire series Nabari no Ou, and watch that. If you're smart, you will notice that while Naruto is fairly good, Nabari does everything that Naruto does except better. Here's a glaring example: Before we met Gaara, everyone thought Naruto was a tragic hero for being the one person who got the crap destiny of dealing with the Kyuubi. But then Gaara and later on Akatsuki show up and it turns out there's eight others! By contrast, Nabari starts with one and ends with one. For another thing, Aizawa (the character most easily likened to Sakura), is actually competent in combat (and I mean Sakura before she started getting training from the woman who is nothing but tits and fists). Raimei's conflict with her brother gets resolved much easier than Sasuke and Itachi. And Raimei was so much more likeable as a character. Sasuke brooded for his family and had a noble agenda, but he was a total ponce. Raimei on the other hand had the exact same noble goal as Sasuke, but she was a whiny little girl who was never allowed the chance to be a whiny little girl, so her appeal lay in everyone wanted to just let her cry on our shoulders while we stroked her bum for a few hours. Okay, I'm sorry, I needed a stupid sex joke in there. Also, Yoite is so much more tragic than Gaara. Sure, Gaara and Naruto are pretty much exactly the same, but Gaara revels in self-loathing while for Yoite, everyone can tell he hates himself for hating himself. Yoite seriously thinks the entire world would be better if he had never existed, and this may be the 1% of me that's still human talking, but a character who just wants to disappear is more likeable to me than a character who wants everyone else to disappear.
And now I'm done. If you read that entire thing, give yourself a cookie.
First, I want everyone to read the manga up to the point wher Sasuke kills Itachi (or watch the anime, sans the filler). Then go out and find the entire series Nabari no Ou, and watch that. If you're smart, you will notice that while Naruto is fairly good, Nabari does everything that Naruto does except better. Here's a glaring example: Before we met Gaara, everyone thought Naruto was a tragic hero for being the one person who got the crap destiny of dealing with the Kyuubi. But then Gaara and later on Akatsuki show up and it turns out there's eight others! By contrast, Nabari starts with one and ends with one. For another thing, Aizawa (the character most easily likened to Sakura), is actually competent in combat (and I mean Sakura before she started getting training from the woman who is nothing but tits and fists). Raimei's conflict with her brother gets resolved much easier than Sasuke and Itachi. And Raimei was so much more likeable as a character. Sasuke brooded for his family and had a noble agenda, but he was a total ponce. Raimei on the other hand had the exact same noble goal as Sasuke, but she was a whiny little girl who was never allowed the chance to be a whiny little girl, so her appeal lay in everyone wanted to just let her cry on our shoulders while we stroked her bum for a few hours. Okay, I'm sorry, I needed a stupid sex joke in there. Also, Yoite is so much more tragic than Gaara. Sure, Gaara and Naruto are pretty much exactly the same, but Gaara revels in self-loathing while for Yoite, everyone can tell he hates himself for hating himself. Yoite seriously thinks the entire world would be better if he had never existed, and this may be the 1% of me that's still human talking, but a character who just wants to disappear is more likeable to me than a character who wants everyone else to disappear.
And now I'm done. If you read that entire thing, give yourself a cookie.