Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

Thyunda

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IceForce said:
Thyunda said:
Again, it's a case of creatively working backwards, because this explanation actually makes it even worse.
She dresses like an idiot because she breathes through her skin.
She breathes through her skin because she hasn't got any lungs.
She hasn't got any lungs because a villain burned them all up.
Is there an explanation for how her lungs can get burned to a crisp, but her skin is able to remain pristine and perfectly serviceable?

I saw another post up there somewhere that said she was given an artificial skin, which is how she can photosynthesise and not look like Joshua Graham at the same time. The science behind it is perfectly serviceable by MGS standards, which is fine, but we know damn well that a male character would be granted badass cybernetics instead.

Also wouldn't she just be so much cooler if, rather than having photosynthetic artificial skin (why does she even bother with clothes?) she had a respirator and a full-body minimalist mech suit?
 

Frankster

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Pinkilicious said:
Sexy pic snip
:O
...
Well there are exceptions that prove the rule I guess.

But daaaaaaaaaaaamn that's a sexy piece of man meat, makes me feel super inadequate now xP

Disclaimer: I'm still straight as an arrow. It's because I'm comfortable in my sexuality that I can judge the appearance of other men!
 

EternallyBored

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Coruptin said:
altnameJag said:
So, was it the fire or the parasite that makes it so Quiet can't process or digest food and water taken orally?

For that matter, what's the actual downside of this so called "parasite"? Really just seems like someone came up with a way to modify the human race to not need to spend so much time and resources on agriculture as well as largely eliminating starvation.
I'll give you hint at the downside. Kojima wasn't being subtle by making a metaphor about the human condition and mortality or anything when he named her Quiet.
Except those are totally separate parasites, the ones that give her super powers are different from the ones that prevent her from speaking. The downside to the skin parasites is that she can't swim in salt water as the salt would dehydrate her too fast, and fresh water shuts down the other functions temporarily as it attempts to absorb more water.

Even then, the vocal cord parasites only prevent her from speaking English, not learning another language, or speaking Navajo which she already knows, even a tracheotomy and an artificial voice box would fix the whole thing, given MGS has holograms in the 80's they can give her a kickass cyborg voice implant or something. Quiet is only Quiet because the plot demands she hold a giant idiot ball.
 

Pinkilicious

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Haha, yeah Kars'll do that to people xD
He's appearance-wise like what Kuja would be if he decided he wanted to take on the Mr Universe contest. Fun guy.
I mean, whole series has lots of strangely feminine posing, but he and the two cowboy characters really go overboard.

Oh yeah, I just remembered this strange sequence from Plastic Nee-san too.
(trigger warning: may kill you horribly with laughter and goofy translation)

Thyunda said:
IceForce said:
Thyunda said:
Again, it's a case of creatively working backwards, because this explanation actually makes it even worse.
She dresses like an idiot because she breathes through her skin.
She breathes through her skin because she hasn't got any lungs.
She hasn't got any lungs because a villain burned them all up.
Is there an explanation for how her lungs can get burned to a crisp, but her skin is able to remain pristine and perfectly serviceable?

I saw another post up there somewhere that said she was given an artificial skin, which is how she can photosynthesise and not look like Joshua Graham at the same time. The science behind it is perfectly serviceable by MGS standards, which is fine, but we know damn well that a male character would be granted badass cybernetics instead.

Also wouldn't she just be so much cooler if, rather than having photosynthetic artificial skin (why does she even bother with clothes?) she had a respirator and a full-body minimalist mech suit?
Femvader FTW!
Yeah there are so many better ways to do it...that it makes the end result of this feel like an embarrassing lie.
Like I mentioned earlier, even if she HAD to keep her skin exposed, the placement and how she dressed makes no sense (especially covering up her feet and arm so much. She should have at least the upper parts of her feet exposed, if not be wearing full on custom-made sandals.) I wish I could remember what anime I saw it in, because there's a really good example of what I mean by 'naked yet also covered' in it, but I couldn't remember the terms to find the costume I had in mind. This one particular Bene Gesserit is somewhat close from the midsection up from what I'm trying to recall, just replace that vest over her chest with a bit of kevlar, and headpiece with a bridal veil.
https://creativecostuming.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/bene-gesserit-2.jpg

Considering how near-naked everyone is in Reign: The Conqueror, it might be that, but I haven't seen the full show in some time so that's just a guess at where it might've been.

Oh, and that level of fanservice (and even some posing) I feel was capably justified in the Witchblade anime. So it CAN be done well enough that you don't really notice it, it's just that the design itself was failed from the start.
 

Jake Martinez

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Because she's an even more blatant source of fanservice in a world that isn't strictly devised for fanservice.
Who the fuck wears a bikini top to battle?
Fictional characters.

It's all for fun, right? So why does everyone have to get butt hurt over other people having fun?
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Jake Martinez said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Because she's an even more blatant source of fanservice in a world that isn't strictly devised for fanservice.
Who the fuck wears a bikini top to battle?
Fictional characters.

It's all for fun, right? So why does everyone have to get butt hurt over other people having fun?
Not all that glitters is gold, nor all those who criticize have hemorrhoids.
 

MrFalconfly

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Thyunda said:
I saw another post up there somewhere that said she was given an artificial skin, which is how she can photosynthesise and not look like Joshua Graham at the same time.
I dunno.

Maybe not Joshua Graham, but I'm fairly certain that she would look a bit like Gaila from Star Trek.



Because photosynthesis.

If her skin can photosynthesise, that means her skin contains chlorophyll, which would make her green.

EDIT:
Notice, you can still have a fanservicey character, even if she's green.
 

Jadak

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I don't particularly care about the issue either way, but will make one point relevant to the OP.

An issue being ignored or otherwise not causing a fuss in the pass is never, ever an excuse to not cause a fuss in the future.

Games in the past not getting this attention in no way means a game in the present should be overlooked as well. Culture changes, values change, opinions change. Shit changes over time. Something being okay in the past means absolutely fucking nothing, otherwise I wouldn't be hungry right now, the human I owned would have made me lunch.
 

Casual Shinji

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Pinkilicious said:
Anime/cosplay designs and original interpretations have simply gotten WEIRDER over time. Quiet is an unfortunate victim of that. Even the feminist redesign doesn't get Quiet/look right.
http://bikiniarmorbattledamage.tumblr.com/post/129214322638/shattered-earth-backstory-made-to-fit-a
Here's a proper redesign.



Remember these two? Beautiful women with practical outfits suited to their profession? Remember when Kojima could actually show restraint? Let us point to these for every comment claiming "Metal Gear was always like this."
 

Ricardo Lima

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Samtemdo8 said:
blank0000 said:
In my opinion Quiet?s eye candy design is drawing a lot of deserved criticism. Metal Gear Solid is a high profile game. It?s something that people want to point to and say ?Look how far we have come!? That becomes a problem when such a gratuitously sexist outfit is present. I can?t show msg to a friend and say ?look how amazing this is! I want to share this with you?just ignore the cartoonishly fetishized lady hanging out in the helicopter??

I can?t ignore that. I can?t pretend she's presented in this way for any reason other then to draw attention to the game in an underhanded fashion.
I remember a time when gaming actually accepted and sometimes praise sexuality in gaming I mean People referred to Lara Croft as the primere sex symbol in video games like how Elvis was to rock music.

What happened to all that?
THe rise of sex negative moral panic crusaders it became normal in certain circles to say that any women that are dressed in a certain way in games are sex toys is misogyny, demeaning to women or incentive to rape.

Unless your name is Kim Kardshian then you can walk near naked in the real world, it becomes empowering.

altnameJag said:
Ricardo Lima said:
...is anybody actually trying to prevent people from buying this game or is it just face-palms and laughing?

I think the straw-feminists in your head have gotten loose again.
I did not mention feminism, you did. You are projecting again, tsc. If what I said fits your definition of feminists, you need better definitions for it.

C.
altnameJag said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Thyunda said:
No, guys. The costume came first, the reason second. This isn't a poor woman having her outfit dictated by her medical condition - this is a fictional creation formed in the mind of an unpredictable man with a vivid and creative imagination. One who had the image of her and her behaviour in his head before he thought, "she breathes through her skin."

Otherwise the alternate costumes would be equally revealing. Otherwise that elderly skin-breather wouldn't have gone into battle bedecked in shrubbery.
The key difference is that Quiet's lungs were destroyed by Ishmael. We don't really know at what point Kojima penned, "And then a mysterious man with a bandaged head who talks just like Snake sets the female assassin on fire before throwing more flammable liquid on her as she screams and throws herself out a convenient window."
Wait, she was set on fire to the point her lungs were destroyed and they have such advanced surgery techniques that 99% of her body[footnote]And yeah, you can see all of that[/footnote] has no visible burn scars?

How very convenient.
MSG has never been particulary realistic but its a fun game. I would play with her naked or fully dressed. Its not a menace to anything. Unless you are a sex negative moral crusader.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Ricardo Lima said:
altnameJag said:
...is anybody actually trying to prevent people from buying this game or is it just face-palms and laughing?

I think the straw-feminists in your head have gotten loose again.
I did not mention feminism, you did. You are projecting again, tsc. If what I said fits your definition of feminists, you need better definitions for it.
Sorry, "straw-feminist" is what I go to when I hear arguments like this, variation on "straw-man" You know, the "those evil others trying to take away our tits n such", when nobody is saying anything like that. Anywhere.


I your case, I guess I'd have to call them "straw-moral-crusaders", because they don't exist.
Ricardo Lima said:
altnameJag said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Thyunda said:
No, guys. The costume came first, the reason second. This isn't a poor woman having her outfit dictated by her medical condition - this is a fictional creation formed in the mind of an unpredictable man with a vivid and creative imagination. One who had the image of her and her behaviour in his head before he thought, "she breathes through her skin."

Otherwise the alternate costumes would be equally revealing. Otherwise that elderly skin-breather wouldn't have gone into battle bedecked in shrubbery.
The key difference is that Quiet's lungs were destroyed by Ishmael. We don't really know at what point Kojima penned, "And then a mysterious man with a bandaged head who talks just like Snake sets the female assassin on fire before throwing more flammable liquid on her as she screams and throws herself out a convenient window."
Wait, she was set on fire to the point her lungs were destroyed and they have such advanced surgery techniques that 99% of her body[footnote]And yeah, you can see all of that[/footnote] has no visible burn scars?

How very convenient.
MSG has never been particulary realistic but its a fun game. I would play with her naked or fully dressed. Its not a menace to anything. Unless you are a sex negative moral crusader.
Okay then? Glad we agree?

Seriously, do you even MST3K?
 

Ricardo Lima

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altnameJag said:
Ricardo Lima said:
altnameJag said:
...is anybody actually trying to prevent people from buying this game or is it just face-palms and laughing?

I think the straw-feminists in your head have gotten loose again.
I did not mention feminism, you did. You are projecting again, tsc. If what I said fits your definition of feminists, you need better definitions for it.
Sorry, "straw-feminist" is what I go to when I hear arguments like this, variation on "straw-man" You know, the "those evil others trying to take away our tits n such", when nobody is saying anything like that. Anywhere.


I your case, I guess I'd have to call them "straw-moral-crusaders", because they don't exist.
Now I believe you are lying. There have been numerous articles complaining about Quiet's outfit even before game was released. There never has been so many moral outcrys against female outfits deemed skimpy in recent memory. Calling it problematic and equating it with misogyny is rampamt. For "proof" use that new thing called Google you will find plenty if you want to.

There more than one moral crusader on this very forum, they just hide behind mockery and dishonesty usually. Why are you pretending they dont exist?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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EternallyBored said:
Coruptin said:
altnameJag said:
So, was it the fire or the parasite that makes it so Quiet can't process or digest food and water taken orally?

For that matter, what's the actual downside of this so called "parasite"? Really just seems like someone came up with a way to modify the human race to not need to spend so much time and resources on agriculture as well as largely eliminating starvation.
I'll give you hint at the downside. Kojima wasn't being subtle by making a metaphor about the human condition and mortality or anything when he named her Quiet.
Except those are totally separate parasites, the ones that give her super powers are different from the ones that prevent her from speaking. The downside to the skin parasites is that she can't swim in salt water as the salt would dehydrate her too fast, and fresh water shuts down the other functions temporarily as it attempts to absorb more water.

Even then, the vocal cord parasites only prevent her from speaking English, not learning another language, or speaking Navajo which she already knows, even a tracheotomy and an artificial voice box would fix the whole thing, given MGS has holograms in the 80's they can give her a kickass cyborg voice implant or something. Quiet is only Quiet because the plot demands she hold a giant idiot ball.
I was gonna say... I mean, she hums, so she still has a working diaphragm, something to store air, and at least a somewhat functional voicebox. Kind of an interesting weakness if you live on the coast though. Still, can't see the "parasite" as anything other than a net boon right now.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Ricardo Lima said:
Now I believe you are lying. There have been numerous articles complaining about Quiet's outfit even before game was released. There never has been so many moral outcrys against female outfits deemed skimpy in recent memory. Calling it problematic and equating it with misogyny is rampamt. For "proof" use that new thing called Google you will find plenty if you want to.

There more than one moral crusader on this very forum, they just hide behind mockery and dishonesty usually. Why are you pretending they dont exist?
Believe what you like. pointing and laughing at something you find stupid =/= equal trying to make it not exist.

What I see on these forums are more than a few posters going something like "great game, but this part is stupid and here's why" or "I'd like the game more if this wonky bit was a bit different, and here's why" and getting met with charges of, well, moral crusading and wanting to destroy video games.
 

Erttheking

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Ricardo Lima said:
THe rise of sex negative moral panic crusaders it became normal in certain circles to say that any women that are dressed in a certain way in games are sex toys is misogyny, demeaning to women or incentive to rape.

Unless your name is Kim Kardshian then you can walk near naked in the real world, it becomes empowering.

MSG has never been particulary realistic but its a fun game. I would play with her naked or fully dressed. Its not a menace to anything. Unless you are a sex negative moral crusader.
So I can't say how an outfit is stupid and nonsensical without being a sex negative moral crusaders? Sorry, I ain't buying that for half a second. Quiet's outfit is stupid, the way she acts is stupid, the "breaths through her skin" thing as justification is asinine. If I'm a sex negative crusader for wanting sexuality in gaming to be more than skin deep pandering, and wanting it to actually fit the tone of the game, then get me a banner that says "Deus vult!" and call me Robert of Flanders

MGS yeah, except it constantly tries to be realistic. It tries to technobabble all of its stupid stuff into making logical sense, which only highlights how out of place it is, and he tries to realistically portray the horrors of war in the modern day, not the horrors of war in the far off future, modern day war with a realistic depiction of the military and a heavy emphasis on nuclear weapons. Kojima wants to have his cake and eat it too. Also it can't keep a consistent tone. Still haven't forgotten that moment in MGS4 where Snake is in a war-torn city, starting off with Snake giving a long narration about how horrible it is, and later in the same city we get a comedy bit about a soldier being chased after he has Diarrhea and tries to shit into a metal barrel. Metal Gear either needs to drop all the stupid bullshit and take itself seriously, or drop all pretenses to realism and go full balls to the walls insanity like it did with Revengance. See, revengance wasn't trying to be realistic in the slightest, it was about a superpowered cyborg slicing up giant robots in order to rescue the kidnapped brains of children before having a showdown with a insane shirtless politician on steroids. As opposed to Phantom Pain, which is supposed to be a realistic depressing look at a war zone.

I know which setting I'm more likely to buy stupid bullshit in.
 

Thyunda

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MrFalconfly said:
Thyunda said:
I saw another post up there somewhere that said she was given an artificial skin, which is how she can photosynthesise and not look like Joshua Graham at the same time.
I dunno.

Maybe not Joshua Graham, but I'm fairly certain that she would look a bit like Gaila from Star Trek.



Because photosynthesis.

If her skin can photosynthesise, that means her skin contains chlorophyll, which would make her green.

EDIT:
Notice, you can still have a fanservicey character, even if she's green.
Hah, my Joshua Graham comment was a reference to the fact she'd been all burned up. So, y'know, bandages.
 

Ricardo Lima

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altnameJag said:
Ricardo Lima said:
Now I believe you are lying. There have been numerous articles complaining about Quiet's outfit even before game was released. There never has been so many moral outcrys against female outfits deemed skimpy in recent memory. Calling it problematic and equating it with misogyny is rampamt. For "proof" use that new thing called Google you will find plenty if you want to.

There more than one moral crusader on this very forum, they just hide behind mockery and dishonesty usually. Why are you pretending they dont exist?
Believe what you like. pointing and laughing at something you find stupid =/= equal trying to make it not exist.

What I see on these forums are more than a few posters going something like "great game, but this part is stupid and here's why" or "I'd like the game more if this wonky bit was a bit different, and here's why" and getting met with charges of, well, moral crusading and wanting to destroy video games.
I will believe facts. and you are being dishonest and hiding behind mockery again. Typical.

erttheking said:
Ricardo Lima said:
THe rise of sex negative moral panic crusaders it became normal in certain circles to say that any women that are dressed in a certain way in games are sex toys is misogyny, demeaning to women or incentive to rape.

Unless your name is Kim Kardshian then you can walk near naked in the real world, it becomes empowering.

MSG has never been particulary realistic but its a fun game. I would play with her naked or fully dressed. Its not a menace to anything. Unless you are a sex negative moral crusader.
So I can't say how an outfit is stupid and nonsensical without being a sex negative moral crusaders? Sorry, I ain't buying that for half a second. Quiet's outfit is stupid, the way she acts is stupid, the "breaths through her skin" thing as justification is asinine. If I'm a sex negative crusader for wanting sexuality in gaming to be more than skin deep pandering, and wanting it to actually fit the tone of the game, then get me a banner that says "Deus vult!" and call me Robert of Flanders

MGS yeah, except it constantly tries to be realistic. It tries to technobabble all of its stupid stuff into making logical sense, which only highlights how out of place it is, and he tries to realistically portray the horrors of war in the modern day, not the horrors of war in the far off future, modern day war with a realistic depiction of the military and a heavy emphasis on nuclear weapons. Kojima wants to have his cake and eat it too. Also it can't keep a consistent tone. Still haven't forgotten that moment in MGS4 where Snake is in a war-torn city, starting off with Snake giving a long narration about how horrible it is, and later in the same city we get a comedy bit about a soldier being chased after he has Diarrhea and tries to shit into a metal barrel. Metal Gear either needs to drop all the stupid bullshit and take itself seriously, or drop all pretenses to realism and go full balls to the walls insanity like it did with Revengance. See, revengance wasn't trying to be realistic in the slightest, it was about a superpowered cyborg slicing up giant robots in order to rescue the kidnapped brains of children before having a showdown with a insane shirtless politician on steroids. As opposed to Phantom Pain, which is supposed to be a realistic depressing look at a war zone.

I know which setting I'm more likely to buy stupid bullshit in.
Rampant cloning, hiding under boxes, and giant walking nuclear robots that will destroy everything, near super human powers are realistic where? In comparision her outfit, try to find or do any the things I mentioned in the real world. Focusing on her outfit over any of that because .....

As I said before nobody is forcing you to like Kojima antics they have been here before MSG5 I find them fun, you dont? Fine there are other games around. For a more realistic setting you could try Splinter Cell for example you can be in a skintigth suit in peace there I think.

I dont think anyone has to like the game. But thats not the focus of this topic is it? Quiet outfit is.
 

Erttheking

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Ricardo Lima said:
I said the series TRIES to be realistic. It fails. Spectacularly. But it still tries. Which is why its story is the ass of so many jokes. Because Kojima's attempts to blend the supernatural and real life military operations are consistently laughably bad. I'm not focusing on her outfit. I'm talking about the topic that was brought up in the OP. Oh and it because it was a special brand of bullshit with Kojima shamming the fans who criticized it because "There's a reason for it." I thought she was going to be a rape victim trying to take control of her sexuality, you know, something with depth and meaning but nope, she just breaths through her skin.

I know that. So why do you have a problem with me criticizing it? Why can't I criticize it without being a "Sex negative moral crusader". And here's the thing. I was really interested in the Phantom Pain, because it looked really really fun to play. But I got put off when I learned how absolutely fucking stupid its story was, especially the revelations on who a few characters end up being that made me scream "WHAT!?" at the top of my lungs. Quiet's stupid outfit and sexual posing really is the icing on the cake for how Kojima builds his games with a solid foundation then ruins them by cramming stupid bullshit into it. This whole "There are other games around" thing really sounds like you don't want to hear my criticisms on MGS and are just trying to dismiss them. You said MGS wasn't a serious game as part of your argument, don't blame me for bringing up why I felt that argument didn't hold water.

Oh right, the focus of the topic, her outfit. It's stupid, makes no sense, and Kojima tried to present it as something bigger than it was, shamming the fans that didn't like it, which really pisses me off.

Also don't criticize other people for mockery when you're calling people sex negative moral crusaders.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Ricardo Lima said:
I will believe facts. and you are being dishonest and hiding behind mockery again. Typical.
Have you heard of Rifftrax? Do you believe they hate every movie they've made fun of and want to cause those movies to not exist anymore?