Quiet is one of my fav characters from the game. if some pretentious asshats want to complain about her then it's not something i care to listen to.
Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?
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Nope. It doesn't justify BB from MG at all. I think both of the original MG games shouldn't be considered canon at this point. Konami should just make a sequel to V that serves as a prequel to MGS 1 to tie all the loose ends. No one cares about 28 year old NES game story anyway. Not even Kojima apparently. And last I heard, people actually want remakes of those games.AgentCooper said:
So because you did not like it should not be considered cannon? I gave you a very reasonable explanation. Considering the official time line still cites the original MG timelines as cannon to the MGS lore. The only games not considered to be cannon by fans are Ghost Babel and Portable Ops.Adam Jensen said:
Yeah. Why are we all talking about this. Why are we talking about this thing. Why is this the thing that we are talking about. We should all stop talking about this now. Seriously why are we still talking about this. This conversation should not have happened. WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS!
Anyway, heavy-handed and poorly-executed joke aside, it's something that people found kinda dumb and irritating about a big mainstream game that came out recently, why would people not be talking about it?
People DID talk about early MGS games with slightly embarassing female characters. Even if then didn't then so what if other games had similarly dodgy stuff with no/less criticism, "but EVERYBODY speeds down this road officer" is not a good defence.
Anyway, heavy-handed and poorly-executed joke aside, it's something that people found kinda dumb and irritating about a big mainstream game that came out recently, why would people not be talking about it?
People DID talk about early MGS games with slightly embarassing female characters. Even if then didn't then so what if other games had similarly dodgy stuff with no/less criticism, "but EVERYBODY speeds down this road officer" is not a good defence.
Because it's current and even for video game standards she is whorey. I don't know why they even bothered with their flimsy narrative excuse, they using the same kinda logic as my intermediate aged cousin who thinks if they can twist words or have an excuse no matter how stupid they've won because you can't "technically prove" they are full of shit even though everyone knows they are full of shit. She is there to get her tits out. I would respect them more if they didn't pretend she is anything else and had there to be fucked between missions.
Eh, people still think Bayonetta was created by a dude, despite all evidence pointing to a woman that looks quite similar to her and still consider her to be a victim of "must be sexy or else dudes won't play her, and even then, they're only in it to look at her assets and plot".Redd the Sock said:
I will agree that people look at the surface details of games waaaaay too much anymore(and probably regard some of the things in them much deeper than they should be doing), and for all the moaning about the PCMR only caring about graphics, there's a pretty good portion of the people saying those things that turn around and complain about what characters look like instead of talking about the shortcomings of the games that aren't related to art or geometry. Just a little bit of funny from where I'm sitting(on a throne of Nvidia Titans with titanium pc towers and ruby-encrusted peripherals as any self-respecting member of the master race does).
Dude....*clears throat*...you're asking for realism and how science works. IN A MGS GAME. It's 50's sci-fi logic at the best of times mixed with alot of idealism when it comes to military things. C'mon, you've gotta know that. And the messages in it have very little to do with what's going on on-screen most of the time. Alot of stuff about family and culture not being forgotten by the next generation, passing on and what it will mean to each person that you've affected by simply being alive around them in addition to dying alone not being ideal for anyone. And then there's the bucketload of hope that's dumped on top of a bunch of grimness. Kojima uses alot of very common themes throughout the MGS franchise with a batshit insane setup. Analyzing or looking for/expecting deeper meanings is sorta pointless, because the guy spends the last ten minutes(at least) of each game hammering the points home with all the subtlety of a terrified elephant(which I've always thought has been sorta comical considering they're stealth games).EternallyBored said:
In short, turn your brain off and enjoy the ride, the only important parts are the endings with the exception of MGS3 honestly is how I've always viewed them.
No, they shouldn't be canon because that way they could make some new games and try to make better sense of the story and the characters. There are things that they would have to keep as canon though, simply because they've been referenced in every game since MGS 1.AgentCooper said:
And no, you didn't give me a reasonable explanation at all. You said it yourself.
"BB somehow became corrupt".
But this topic is about how stupid Quiet's outfit is. Which I still don't care about to be honest. There are basically two types of people. Those who care about Quiet as a character more than her outfit and those who care about her outfit more than her as a character. Her default outfit is stupid, but I don't give a fuck what she wears as long as she's an awesome sniper with an interesting backstory.
It's not the crazy elements I have a problem with, it's the poor characterization and Kojima's ADHD that seems to prevent him from writing a coherent narrative when he's not plot dumping everything in codec calls and wasting valuable plot time on some tangent like a 9 year old who's had his first energy drink.Redryhno said:
It's niggling things that just flatout require the characters to be functionally retarded like Quiet not being able to write, or parasites that demolish much of the technology of any of the later games. Especially when he's proven he can write a prequel in MGS 3 that doesn't mulch the tech levels and canon of the proceeding games in the timeline.
I like MGS, I'm fine with the crazy shit, vocal cord parasites? sure, why not? photosynthetic skin? alright, not any crazier than nanomachines, Quiet's outfit still looks dumb though. Giant flaming whales? strange, but sure, I bought mooing metal gears, give me a giant flaming moby dick too. Giant metal gear stolen by the president of the U.S.? Ok, I think we can all agree MGS 2 was a bit bonkers even for MGS, but it still mostly worked.
Through all that though, the plot still needs to at least flow together into a cohesive narrative, and MGS V failed to do that, the characters weren't stupid for believable reasons or because it made sense, the characters acted like idiots because the bare bones plot wouldn't work otherwise. Kojima can use all the strange stuff he wants, but that doesn't excuse a poor plot that has major dramatic moments that only happen because the bikini clad sniper can't be arsed to pick up a pen.
There is no point in new Metal Gear games. Kojima is gone when his contract is over with in December and Konami has made it clear. All they want to do is Pachinko machines and mobile games.Adam Jensen said:
Big boss never lived up to the legend that preceded him. He was a fucking coward. When it was a double who was doing everything to live up the big boss title. Did you forget Miller only found out later on about the double? Big Boss fucked over Miller by lying to him. He did all this to get heat off himself and in the end it was not worth it. Big Boss became a villain out of necessity and not out of spite. He had a perfect vision of the world as one united being. Him simply being a child killing dick hole was not true.
The main problem with MSG V is that the entire third chapter of the game had to be cut (there are mostly rendered cutscenes and voice acting for it in the game files) thanks to Konami and so all character, not just Quiet, didn't get the full game to have their character's arcs in. This means that flaws in the characters just become so much more apparent than they would otherwise be.
FYI, the third chapter partly got worked into the Tapes but it's not really the same.
FYI, the third chapter partly got worked into the Tapes but it's not really the same.
You can't say that he was a coward based on that. We don't have a clueAgentCooper said:
what the real Big Boss was doing and where he was doing it.
This is not complicated at all. It's just bad storytelling. Kojima fucked up his own convoluted story to such an extent that only more Metal Gear games could try to fix it. Because in the current state MGS V makes no sense at all because of that ending.
I can't believe that someone on Kotaku managed to sum it up nicely: http://kotaku.com/why-metal-gear-solid-vs-ending-was-so-disappointing-1729833383
Because creating controversy and pandering to social justice ideologues is all the rage these days. People need to worry more about real world issues instead of how dressed the pixels in a game.
Moral panic and controversy sells thats all some people care about..
Moral panic and controversy sells thats all some people care about..
... I mean, not to discredit that the Quiet is over-sexualised but this is the same series where this
is something that happens in the game.
MGS1 was kinda coy with Sniper Wolf and the 'find Meryl' thing, MGS2 had... well, that above screenshot, MGS3 had Eva who used her sexiness as a weapon (counterpoint to the Boss who used her weapon as a weapon weapon, jesus christ, why didn't they clone HER!?) and MGS4 had that weird Beauty and the Beast unit. But, more importantly, Meryl 'The Gunshow' Silverburgh (not sure what gym she hit between MGS1 and 4 but gahd DAMN did she get jacked).
I mean... the games have always had a kinda weird relationship with sex appeal. Not least that we tend to get a fair deal of dude stuff to counterweight. Admittedly, Quiet is taking the next gen graphics cake and the reasoning being Babelfish Las Plagas is a little weird but I mean... I don't think it's controversial?
is something that happens in the game.
MGS1 was kinda coy with Sniper Wolf and the 'find Meryl' thing, MGS2 had... well, that above screenshot, MGS3 had Eva who used her sexiness as a weapon (counterpoint to the Boss who used her weapon as a weapon weapon, jesus christ, why didn't they clone HER!?) and MGS4 had that weird Beauty and the Beast unit. But, more importantly, Meryl 'The Gunshow' Silverburgh (not sure what gym she hit between MGS1 and 4 but gahd DAMN did she get jacked).
I mean... the games have always had a kinda weird relationship with sex appeal. Not least that we tend to get a fair deal of dude stuff to counterweight. Admittedly, Quiet is taking the next gen graphics cake and the reasoning being Babelfish Las Plagas is a little weird but I mean... I don't think it's controversial?
Adam Jensen said:
The real Big Boss was hiding in Africa during the events of V. It's assumed he was training a very young Solid Snake at this time.
I tell you what. Let's leave it at that. I'm done explaining and done trying to defend.
Eh, Konami and Kojima are both at fault for this, Konami for not keeping track of Kojima's progress and setting milestones based on a timetable, and Kojima for blowing out the budget and being unable to keep to a schedule thus delaying the game more than once, a director's responsibility is to work within the monetary and time constraints given to him, we cannot reasonably expect a publisher to afford a developer as much time and money as they want for as long as they want.vallorn said:
This was a game in development for over 5 years, and is one of the most expensive games ever developed in Japan, I dislike a lot of the crap Konami has done recently, but it looks like in this case Kojima was wasting a lot of the company's time and money, this wasn't some EA Dragon Age 2 deal where the company gives the developer a year to develop a game, konami gave Kojima 5 years or more and almost $100 million dollars, that he couldn't finish all three chapters in that time says more about him than it does Konami.
Still, screw Konami for what they've done to Silent hill and Castlevania, and what they are inevitably going to do to MGS now that Kojima is gone.
The cowardice of not just owning up you wanted to ogle some tits and ass is a thing, no problem with that it's trying to act like you aren't that bugs me.
Oh and the fact that its a very lazy way to show off her better features when well dressed can be much sexier than barely dressed. Sexiness as a component is fine, she is in fact a great character....until the camera gets a hold of her then we get slow zooms at her ass and it feels like you are devaluing a good character we came to love.
Oh and the fact that its a very lazy way to show off her better features when well dressed can be much sexier than barely dressed. Sexiness as a component is fine, she is in fact a great character....until the camera gets a hold of her then we get slow zooms at her ass and it feels like you are devaluing a good character we came to love.
My thoughts on this issue would basically just be paraphrasing Jim Sterling, so I won't bother. However, i will say to the people saying "oh, why is it such a big deal?"...come on guys. You know why people are making a big deal about this. You have to take one look at her to know exactly what the problem is, and it's not a new problem. The reason it's being talked about is that the game is the latest example in a long line of games objectifying women. There's no need to feign ignorance just because it isn't negatively affecting you.
Also, with regard to the in-game explanation...ditch the stockings, maybe put on some comfortable shorts, swap out the ridiculous micro-bikini top for a sports bra. If I were a sniper who for some stupid reason had to live my life half naked, that's how I'd dress. When the excuse doesn't even justify the outfit, that's when it gives the game away.
Also, with regard to the in-game explanation...ditch the stockings, maybe put on some comfortable shorts, swap out the ridiculous micro-bikini top for a sports bra. If I were a sniper who for some stupid reason had to live my life half naked, that's how I'd dress. When the excuse doesn't even justify the outfit, that's when it gives the game away.
I'm just gonna spoiler tag my entire contribution for thisAdam Jensen said:
Big Boss was probly establishing FOXHOUND. It fits in the time-frame, he likely did it while the medic was in the coma under a different code-name. What exactly happened TO him is kinda unimportant, he's in Peace Walker mode, he's gonna get a lotta land and build a mech with a nuke and then PROFIT!! And this is where the medic comes in.
Phantom Pains' whole theme is the idea of language and identity affecting how you see yourself, and does it pretty awesomely in general. So the twist totally fits (and has some neatish foreshadowing which I thought was a glitch) but it also functions as kind of a 'discrepancy' filler.
If Big Boss did something out of character in the MSX games (like... die)? Or Liquid/Ocelot have weird memories of him? No problem, there were two big bosses. Ocelot claims Liquid's arm is controlling him? Nah, he's doing that thing that he did to the medic. This does leave some holes, like, why Big Boss also goes evil but that can probably be summed up by the whole... he kinda already was. That Mission 43 bit? Big Boss was already willing to do that. While the Phantom wipes out his own soldiers, Big Boss is using them as body-doubles so he can work with impunity.
Phantom Pains' whole theme is the idea of language and identity affecting how you see yourself, and does it pretty awesomely in general. So the twist totally fits (and has some neatish foreshadowing which I thought was a glitch) but it also functions as kind of a 'discrepancy' filler.
If Big Boss did something out of character in the MSX games (like... die)? Or Liquid/Ocelot have weird memories of him? No problem, there were two big bosses. Ocelot claims Liquid's arm is controlling him? Nah, he's doing that thing that he did to the medic. This does leave some holes, like, why Big Boss also goes evil but that can probably be summed up by the whole... he kinda already was. That Mission 43 bit? Big Boss was already willing to do that. While the Phantom wipes out his own soldiers, Big Boss is using them as body-doubles so he can work with impunity.
I think the real problem here, and the one that article has, it's probably a little too simplistic to call Big Boss a villain. He's not terribly bright, but it took him like 80 years to realise that NOT fighting is an option. Hell, it took him that long to tell Snake that, yeah, maybe live in peace rather than be a soldier long past the point of being physically fit. This is a guy who's sole motivation is, and always has been, the fact soldiers can never really 'retire'. The poster-child for taking care of the world's veterans. His solution wound up being not 'end war' but 'endLESS war' so that soldiers are never redundant. The nukes are always just a final resort bargaining chip. Liquid took it different, SOLIDUS took it different but Big Boss? High speech aside, he really does just want a place for soldiers.
Whatever he was doing, he was still aware of events going on even if he wasn't directly involved in them.
... plus, it's MGS, if we want to reconcile weirdness maybe let's start with Psycho Mantis reading your memory card?
Casual Shinji said:
This is exactly what happens with Raiden in MGS4 though. In MGS2 he is a reluctant and almost meek character who actively wishes to get out of the mission as in complete juxtaposition of Snake. His dialogue and character interactions being deeply contemplative about the philosophical ramifications of the information age, genetic selection and the military industrial complex.
Fast forward 6 years later and Raiden returns..as a cyborg ninja turned emo with a freakin huge bulge in his cyborg pants spouting lines like ''I am lightning..you are the rain'' as if he's in some kind of cringeworthy Greenday music video.
MGS always had a way of ridiculizing characters, but this is in part also thanks to 'fans' rejecting the intellectual approach Kojima once had for the series. MGS never had a straightforward narrative and characterization that necessarily adhered to popular tropes as the games always unapologetically carried its eclectic mix of serious real-world concepts with complete eccentricity on its sleeve. Quiet perfectly falls in line with Kojima's signature style.
Ima say it again with the picture, while Quiet is over-sexualised, in MGS terms she's doing pretty alright considering...Kingjackl said:
... man, when having a weird catchphrase poem mantra is only the SECOND most embarassing thing you're known for, you KNOW your game got weird.