Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

[Redryhno]

So, I've never played a MGS game, not a one, so forgive me if I ade a mistake in my leap of logic here.

So, we're talking about a game that has a psychic gimp who can read the saves on your memory card, a guy who mind controls bees into a vague gun shape to then fire said bees, some sort of astronaut that explodes into a giant fire face, and a backflipping bishonen buck naked... and it's a lady taking her shirt off to breathe through her tits that breaks the camel's back?

Again, complete outsider here, but she really doesn't seem all that out of place in this universe.

To be fair, this is sorta the most overt sexiness Kojima's been a part of with MGS, but yes, there's people that consider it out of place. I mean, it's not like the camera's focused on cleavage,sexiness, and boobs before, except for those characters in MGS2, and MGS4...and MGS3...and MGS1...basically any Metal Gear game in the last twenty years...

To a point I can see why people have a problem with it, but I really can't take it seriously when you run around for an hour naked as Raiden while he cups his junk in 2, or MF and Vamp in the same game and that's considered "not equivalent".

And as usual, people who don't understand others complaints do their best to show they don't want to understand others complaints by writing them off as stupid. Very classy. Not all of you, but you people will know how you act.

OT: It's very very simple. They put in a skimpy character and gave a stupid excuse to try and take it seriously, even though it's impossible to take it seriously because they like to show off every single erotic pose they code. It contradicts itself basically.

It doesn't matter if it's happened before because it's still not going to be taken seriously. No matter what creative shit they make up, it does not stop the camera capturing all the sexiness it can. But for some reason many of you can't think outside the box and think just because the story is written in such a way that it can't be improved.

I personally find such blatant ogling annoying, but I would be more cool with it if they said it was what they were straight up going for, not pretending to be something else. If Kojima just said "I like big butts and I can not lie" this wouldn't have been a big deal at all. It's like he's ashamed that it's in the game.

I know that you may think you've stumbled upon some amazing tid bit about the people that don't agree with you, but I think people taking it too seriously is what got them riled up about a fanservice character in a series full of fanservice and sexy people being focused on.

Like seriously, the camera's never skimped out on a butt, cleavage, or "tee-hee, there's a willie, can you find the willie?" shot in the entire franchise, to say otherwise is ignoring the series, or having no clue of what any of the games are like.

I mean, sure, the story can be improved, but this is a universe where a man saying "NOT THE BEES" is something that can send chills down your spine and not have you conjuring up images of Nick Cage in a bear suit punching an old lady while you hold your sides from exiting Earth's orbit. It's a universe where a guy licking a knife he pulls out of his crotch is considered intimidating, and where people that are victims of war often end up somehow the most dangerous combat soldiers in the world. Camo Bikini girl and her posing is really not that outside the spectrum. I mean, her backstory's certainly better than Vamp's stuff. I mean, they sorta imply he's bi because he drank his dad's blood to survive in a collapsed church, which has a huge amount of implications that I'm thankful nobody's brought up as some kind of bi erasure the last few years. Though now that I've said that I'm sure we'll see a post/video about it.

But really, you'd be fine if they said the character was just eye-candy for you and Big Boss to look at? That she's just some sort or cheerleader? That they were coding out her sniping usefulness to simply be a pretty prop?

 

[Hardsuit]

As much as I love T&A, and Quiet is fine otherwise, there are a few of rather out-of-tone or completely random scenes with Quiet where its just like....WTF?

Well lets do a comparison. Which one of these makes you feel funny?

 

[Nazulu]

Sorry for the Snip

I feel you missed the main point of my post. Kojima wanted people to take it seriously but it's impossible when he does this. That's a great glaring flaw. Either be silly or don't do it. I also said I wouldn't mind if he straight said what the game actually is, not pretended it was something else. I hope you're not actually saying that because the franchise has been silly all this time that I should take it seriously anyway.

The character can be whatever it wants, cheerleading sniper, whatever. But don't bullshit your way out of the ogling, it's never going to fly (to Kojima specifically, not you).

 

[Elfgore]

I find it funny people are complaining about how "stupid" or "unrealistic" a person breathing through their skin is. When in the first hour of the game there is a flying whale, a flying unicorn that is on fire, an epic horse mounted shoot out through a forest, a gas mask wearing child with psychic powers, and a flame demon. This is my first Metal Gear game and I can already tell this series is the perfect mix of stupid meets serious.

Anyway, people are making such a big deal cause... well I really don't know. Don't really care to be honest. I'm a straight dude, she's like hot as hell to me. I'm not gonna complain when she wears next to no clothing and does sexy poses. Don't get me wrong, everything about her is pretty much off the wall absurd. Doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the view.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I find it funny people are complaining about how "stupid" or "unrealistic" a person breathing through their skin is. When in the first hour of the game there is a flying whale, a flying unicorn that is on fire, an epic horse mounted shoot out through a forest, a gas mask wearing child with psychic powers, and a flame demon. This is my first Metal Gear game and I can already tell this series is the perfect mix of stupid meets serious.

Anyway, people are making such a big deal cause... well I really don't know. Don't really care to be honest. I'm a straight dude, she's like hot as hell to me. I'm not gonna complain when she wears next to no clothing and does sexy poses. Don't get me wrong, everything about her is pretty much off the wall absurd. Doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the view.

^- This.

It's Metal Gear. What on earth are you people expecting here?

 

[Vykrel]

honestly, i dont think people cared all that much. there was some criticism about her outfit prior to the game's release, but we now know just how heavily sexualized the character is. its just weird, imo.

the explanation for her attire was dumb, but i can deal. its fine, whatever. the male characters have been sexualized and even nude in past games... but then the game comes out and i swear i saw a new post every day or so on the front of the gaming subreddit of Quiet doing something absurdly sexual. first, it was her bending over in the helicopter and presenting her butt hole to Snake, then it was the random shower scene where there were a group of soldiers ogling her in the background, and then i see her seductively stripping and then playing in the rain.

ive got no problem with sexualized characters, but at least make it have some sort of point to it. Quiet is apparently a soldier, but one who just randomly decides to shower in bend over or shower in front of guys, and dance nearly naked in the rain.

ive seen plenty of other characters that are just as sexualized as Quiet, if not more so. Bayonetta, a couple of the ladies from Mass Effect, etc. but there was actually a logic to it. it served a purpose and was an integral part to the characters, rather than being random.

 

[EternallyBored]

I find it funny people are complaining about how "stupid" or "unrealistic" a person breathing through their skin is. When in the first hour of the game there is a flying whale, a flying unicorn that is on fire, an epic horse mounted shoot out through a forest, a gas mask wearing child with psychic powers, and a flame demon. This is my first Metal Gear game and I can already tell this series is the perfect mix of stupid meets serious.

Anyway, people are making such a big deal cause... well I really don't know. Don't really care to be honest. I'm a straight dude, she's like hot as hell to me. I'm not gonna complain when she wears next to no clothing and does sexy poses. Don't get me wrong, everything about her is pretty much off the wall absurd. Doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the view.

Except it never really goes there again after the prologue, the whale is literally the high point as far as trippy stuff goes, discounting the prologue this is probably one of the more grounded MGS games out there. Once the psychic kid is done with the prologue his power level seems to take a nose dive, which is kind of unfortunate because a boss battle against psycho mantis and the man on fire could have been awesome.

And I mean a real boss battle, not the lame pseudo battle you get in the game.

The boss enemies in this game are frankly kind of lame compared to the Cobras from 3, Foxhound from 1, and Dead Cell in 2, shit they even make the rather mediocre BB corps fights from 4 look better by comparison. There's really no excuse for that, psycho mantis was great in 1 and his cameo in 4 was funny, the final battle with him for this game was likely part of what was cut out of that final mission that never made it into this game.

I was all set for crazy antics after that prologue, but the whale was pretty much the last time you'll see anything that bonkers in the game, even the ending is pretty grounded and somber compared to the shit that happened in the hospital. It really almost feels like the remnants of a different game, or at least a very different direction the game might have gone in.

 

[Casual Shinji]

MGS always had a way of ridiculizing characters, but this is in part also thanks to 'fans' rejecting the intellectual approach Kojima once had for the series. MGS never had a straightforward narrative and characterization that necessarily adhered to popular tropes as the games always unapologetically carried its eclectic mix of serious real-world concepts with complete eccentricity on its sleeve. Quiet perfectly falls in line with Kojima's signature style.

Oh, I'll agree that it's Kojima through and through, and it's the part of him I fucking hate. Kojima is at his best when he's more straightforward, or at least creates a nice balance between serious and silly. That's why MGS1 and 3 are his best games, because the ludicrous moments are sprinkled throughout while the story/character is still the driving force. With Quiet it's the opposite. Her "off-colourness" is what drives the character, while her characteristics are just there to make an occasional appearance. And this is done for no other purpose other than to get people's rocks off. There's not even a hint of sexuality to Quiet's character, nor is there some sort contridiction to show the character in a different and interesting light.

There is no intellectual approach to this, it's just Kojima making a straight-up flesh trophy. With MGS2 he at least tried to do something intellectual, eventhough he failed miserably, but with Quiet whatever attempt there was was crushed by dem titties.

 

[Kingjackl]

My thoughts on this issue would basically just be paraphrasing Jim Sterling, so I won't bother. However, i will say to the people saying "oh, why is it such a big deal?"...come on guys. You know why people are making a big deal about this. You have to take one look at her to know exactly what the problem is, and it's not a new problem. The reason it's being talked about is that the game is the latest example in a long line of games objectifying women. There's no need to feign ignorance just because it isn't negatively affecting you.

Also, with regard to the in-game explanation...ditch the stockings, maybe put on some comfortable shorts, swap out the ridiculous micro-bikini top for a sports bra. If I were a sniper who for some stupid reason had to live my life half naked, that's how I'd dress. When the excuse doesn't even justify the outfit, that's when it gives the game away.

Ima say it again with the picture, while Quiet is over-sexualised, in MGS terms she's doing pretty alright considering...

... man, when having a weird catchphrase poem mantra is only the SECOND most embarassing thing you're known for, you KNOW your game got weird.

I'd say that's a false equivalence, since in that scene, the sexualisation and objectification of Raiden was not the main focus. The camera doesn't linger on Raiden's body the way it does with Quiet and he never acts as if he's presenting his body for an audience. That cartwheel is something the player does of their own volition, but Quiet does her awkward stripper movements on her own, with the camera getting right up in there. Also, there's the whole issue of Quiet being the latest in a long line of objectified female characters, while men in video games are portrayed for the same effect far less often.

Again, it's the whole "oh, what did you expect" complaint that gets me, implying people shouldn't complain about a problem just because it's ongoing. I think people had every right to expect better because a) Kojimaa said there was a good reason for it, and b) MGS has actually done better in this regard. Meryl and the Boss showed us how to do badass, attractive female soldiers without falling into creepy territory, EVA showed how overt sexiness could be justified in the writing. Quiet doesn't do either, even if (from what I've heard) her actual characterization once you get beneath the fanservice is fairly solid.

 

[Hades]

I will barely swallow the excuse of Quiet having to breathe through her skin but I am not going to pretend the designers didn't first think of a half naked sniper girl and only then started to ponder ''Now how can we justify this?''

I think the controversy is just about how blatant it was where the priority lied.

 

[BarryMcCociner]

Because violence is okay to depict because people know that's wrong but we can't show tits because people MIGHT THINK THAT TITS ARE ACCEPTABLE!

It's neopuritan drivel disguised as a legitimate grievance, concern trolling at best.

Yes, the "excuse" for Quiet's attire is bad. Yes it was just an "excuse" to get he jubblies out on display. That's not the issue, the issue is why can't we accept bare flesh?

But why did Kojima need an excuse? And here's the part nobody is thinking about. Because you made him feel like he needed one. He made the art he wanted to make, he doesn't need an excuse to put tits in it and people hounded and hounded him for it. So he came up with one, and because you like the way the world looks from your horse on high you still hounded him. He shouldn't have had to come up with an excuse and you forced it out of him, his only mistake was realizing you'd never be satisfied and not ignoring your moaning and whining.

I've heard it said that young girls with body issues might not be comfortable with that kind of display. Okay, that's legitimate, I'll grant that. But until someone duct tapes a young girl to a seat and forces her to play MGSV I'm afraid all you should do is let the young girls know there's a possibility that they might be made uncomfortable (Uncomfortable! My word, fetch the vapors!) and move on.

I've heard it argued that Quiet's attire is unrealistic. Well, I'm afraid that if you're so concerned with realism then perhaps the series where cardboard boxes are infiltration equipment, nanomachines are magical blood fairies and most importantly, the namesake of the series, the Metal Gears are essentially mechanical walking nuclear equipped dinosaur battle tanks isn't the series for you. The series where a whale made of fire is shown in the trailer and none of the fans even blink. That's not the series for people who want realism, out you go.

Any credence I could lend to the Anti-Quiet brigade evaporated when people who weren't very happy with Quiet's attire decided to mass-flag Stefanie Joosten's Twitch stream cause... let's attack the actress who done helped with it! That'll prove our point! All it amounted to was shitting on another person for no reason other than they participated in art you disagreed with.

All in all, the reaction to quiet was an immature approach to artistic freedom. (Which deserves defending no matter how 'needless' or 'embarrasing' you or I might find it. I'm embarrassed that the Chinese Room is still trying, doesn't mean I'm gonna harass them into justifying themselves.) And it was an immature approach to tits, which is pathetic and laughable.

 

[Bat Vader]

Because she's an even more blatant source of fanservice in a world that isn't strictly devised for fanservice.
Who the fuck wears a bikini top to battle?

Someone who is really stupid or wants to die? If this was Arma or something I could understand people kicking up a fuss. This is the Metal Gear franchise. Realism isn't really meant to be a thing in the franchise nor is being practical.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

I'd say that's a false equivalence, since in that scene, the sexualisation and objectification of Raiden was not the main focus.

While I can see your reasoning, completely naked 'bishounen' dude has to have at LEAST elements of sexualisation and objectification. Most apparent by the fact (barring 4 I think) that shirtless Snake is used for the same notion (Ocelot torture and... to... mess with Sigint) in most of the games so completely naked really was a design choice.

The camera doesn't linger on Raiden's body the way it does with Quiet and he never acts as if he's presenting his body for an audience. That cartwheel is something the player does of their own volition, but Quiet does her awkward stripper movements on her own, with the camera getting right up in there.

The camera sort of HAS to linger on Raiden he is, literally, always the centre focus. From memory, it doesn't do the zoom in to watch the movements (which aren't needed at all unless it's to 'circulate air' or whatever Kojima's reasoning is) but Raiden is involuntarily presenting his ENTIRE body to the audience because they somehow got that skin-tight suit off him. Bearing in mind again, Snake always keeps the pants.

Also, there's the whole issue of Quiet being the latest in a long line of objectified female characters, while men in video games are portrayed for the same effect far less often.

While you aren't wrong (the 'stripper movements' do push the bounds), this is one of those things where 'objectified' is a problematic term. Quiet does have a personality and motivations but we can't see them because she's representing the idea of Language gating off interactions with people. She also shows Venom Snake's willingness to forgive since she appears fully clothed in the intro and nearly kills VS and Ishmael. This, plus poor time management, means her arc isn't totally fulfilled but there is one there. She's over SEXUALISED but she isn't an object.

For reference, Hulk in Age of Ultron is pretty objectified, he exists solely for hitting things and giving Black Widow dilemmas of heart and conscience with little to no agency. Buuuuut nobody cares about that cos he's the Hulk (plus Cap, Ironman, Thor and Hawkeye all get fulfilling stuff happen).

Again, it's the whole "oh, what did you expect" complaint that gets me, implying people shouldn't complain about a problem just because it's ongoing. I think people had every right to expect better because a) Kojimaa said there was a good reason for it, and b) MGS has actually done better in this regard. Meryl and the Boss showed us how to do badass, attractive female soldiers without falling into creepy territory, EVA showed how overt sexiness could be justified in the writing. Quiet doesn't do either, even if (from what I've heard) her actual characterization once you get beneath the fanservice is fairly solid.

Wait, your complaining WITHOUT getting into the characterisation? I mean... I don't wanna tell you your business but isn't that kinda ignoring the point? You could complain Eva is too sexual and isn't justified if you didn't get into it but with the benefit of hindsight it makes total sense.

Quiet's "outfit" gets some bare-bones justification (and we get to see what the males with the same dealy wear which is a little... Raiden-y) and she DOES do too many sexual movements but I'm guessing if people like me have told you the characterisation works, you are (not being insulting but realistic) going to write us off as just defending the series and ignoring the hypersexual stuff.
But internally, the logic does hold, it's weird and sketchy and it is STILL too sexual. But it isn't illogical.

Idk dude, I doubt I'm gonna be able to explain my point of view aptly enough without being over-ruled by the urge to just thrust all the male fan-service in the series into a post with "Equal Opportunity Creep factor" as the title.

 

[Scarim Coral]

So in another word, Quiet is the new Bayonetta and Sorceress (Dragon Crown)? They're all capable fighters but people goes apeshit over their apperances.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Because violence is okay to depict because people know that's wrong but we can't show tits because people MIGHT THINK THAT TITS ARE ACCEPTABLE!

Ah, people do like to bring up that comparison whenever there's a complaint about women (because it is always women) getting sexually exploited, don't they? Yes, we're fine with violence. You know what we're not fine with? A side character (that we're supposed to take serious) stabbing cats whenever they're on screen or whenever you turn the camera their way. That's just fucking stupid and annoying. Same as a sexy character (that we're supposed to take serious) striking erotic and revealing poses constantly and being displayed as 'Look at that hot piece of ass' 90% of the time. It's a leeriness that gives Michael Bay a run for his money.

You could also have a literal naked Snake run around for the entire game and then complain when people get annoyed by it, because what's wrong with the naked human form? Nothing. In that setting though, it makes no flippin' sense and detracts from the character.

 

[stroopwafel]

There is no intellectual approach to this, it's just Kojima making a straight-up flesh trophy. With MGS2 he at least tried to do something intellectual, eventhough he failed miserably, but with Quiet whatever attempt there was was crushed by dem titties.

Meh. The only scene missing was one where Snake and Quiet stepped into the mobile shower together, see the mobile shower shake and rumble in typical Metal Gear fashion and then the door of the mobile shower opens with the alert sound and the exclamation mark followed by all the soldiers and Diamond Dog on mother base turning around with the alert sound and the exclamation mark as Snake steps out and says ''Kept you waiting huh?'' and Quiet replies all dazed ''V has come to''.

 

[Gengisgame]

Here are the reasons

Some people believe that women should no longer be sexualised, they consider open expressions of male sexuality bad.
This idea that stopping it will make the world a better place for women.
Jealousy.
May simply not like the idea of sexy women.

The last 2 are ok, they would be your own personnel criticisms of what you want in your game but there is nothing wrong with having characters such as this is that's what people want. It won't change the way men treat women, if anything the views of women who think this is harmful has almost certainly done some harm because those women ARE REAL.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I think Kojima wanted a lady in a bikini for the game but came up with some half arsed reason why she dresses the way she does. The reason makes zero sense. An everytime she is on screen the camera focuses on her arse and breasts so we all know exactly where Kojima mind was. lol. Should have just gave her shorts and a cut off tshirt to wear and his reason why would work better.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

The design is kind of bad, but is also the kind of bad that you keep thinking up ideas you think could work better. Like the original idea of a bikini sniper could have worked. Give them camo swim trunks, a sea shell necklace, they would be super laid back to the point of medicated. Just go full beach bum. If they really like the parasite thing, you could build up a character from that. You would trash the stockings because they are totally not breathable. Replace the thong with shorts, the tie bikini with something like a sports bra, you might even be able to get a vest in there now that you opened up a lot of breathing room on your legs. You might also try just going full naked with webbing, maybe even play with some exotic skin like the stone skulls or skull face. Finally if what you really want is a sexy sniper then let them be sexy. Give them their voice back and then let them express their sexuality in other ways then simply dressing in lingerie.