Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

[Something Amyss]

Okay, look. I like porn, I like Baseball. However, I'm not such a big fan of the two things mixing. Not really interested in the Seventh Inning Gangbang, know what I'm saying?

You don't like the Seventh-Inning Gangbang? Have you ever considered that baseball might not be intended for you?

<.<

Is there even a middle ground here?

Yes, but it gets fought over, too. Even if a handful of games go the PC/SJW/whatever you call it route, it's controversial. Do you remember the Hyrule Warrior rumour that there might be an optional playable kid sister character in the 3DS version of Hyrule Warriors?

When even little things like this cause controversy, it's hard to imagine actually settling on middle ground.

Hell, someone's probably already made MGS5 themed porn.

Please tell me they at least got David Hayter to voice that.

Also, my porn folder's out in the open on my media drive and named "porn."

You really can enjoy porn and think non-porn media is stupid when it does things like this.

 

[Coreless]

"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."

I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.

Besides the point.

I'm saying that if I want sexy images on my computer screen, regardless of whether we're talking cutesy or gratuitously hardcore or anything in between, I can make that happen. Easily. I don't need video games to provide that.

And I especially don't need it when the result is otherwise pretty good games fucking up their character designs in service to my theoretical boner.

What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.

It's total bullshit. TOTAL bullshit. You have balloons the size of a small car lifting TANKS off the ground. People pull rifles out of their hands. Resting cures gunshot wounds.

If you see consistent rules and logic, then that's in your imagination, not in the games.

Well then, Metal Gear is a poorly written series. Every series, no matter how crazy and out there, needs to have consistent rules. Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan, which ends with entire galaxies being used as throwing discs, has consistent internal logic, because there are ways in which that can happen. Kill la Kill, which has cloth from space trying to assimilate the human race, has rules about what can and cannot happen. A world creates its own rules and then follows them.

I didn't know Kojima's work was regarded so poorly.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It's total bullshit. TOTAL bullshit. You have balloons the size of a small car lifting TANKS off the ground. People pull rifles out of their hands. Resting cures gunshot wounds.

If you see consistent rules and logic, then that's in your imagination, not in the games.

Or you see game mechanic workarounds. Like corpses disappearing after a while. Or Doomguy carrying 9 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo and rockets. Those are shortcuts to facilitate gameplay. Silly, but whatever. Mechanics doesn't necessarily equate to narrative.

Fairly certain Quiet's outfit isn't there to save CPU cycles. Narratively inconsistent. The End didn't photosynthesis himself, he had a moss ghillie suit do it. Quiet can photosynthesis because? For that matter, do her clothes and weapons disappear? Are they infected with parasites too? Or is all of her disappearing a gameplay thing and not a narrative thing?

Should've just stuck with nanomachines. They're basically magic already.

EDIT: You're in a thread asking people why they don't like a character in a video game. When people say why, you probably shouldn't be telling them they feel wrong. It's okay if someone doesn't like a thing you like.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Either way, it's a game, big deal. Do these people know about porn and the internet? Who am I kidding? The same people who are complaining about likely have a huge folder of porn hidden away on their computers featuring far more degrading actions and actual nudity. Like the classic Baptist that condemns someone for drinking a single beer while trying not to be recognized in the liquor store one town over.

You said it yourself; It's a game. Not porn.

This is why we complain about a bikini clad girl in Metal Gear and not the hundreds of Japanese porn games out there. It's not the sex itself, it's that it's horribly, horribly misplaced. Did you see anyone complain about The Witcher 3's nudey bits? No, because 1) it's only there if you're looking for it, and 2) it generally fits the context. You don't have Yennifer or Triss in bikini armor the whole game and bending over every 5 seconds.

What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?

Then you at the very least make it fit the game, not force it in there with the severed limb of an elephant. This is why you don't have a model with barely covered, floppy breasts run into frame in There Will Be Blood, eventhough most of its audience members probably like sex and like to look at sexy images on occasion.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

What does the real world have to do with anything? That's not what consistent rules are about. It's about a story following its own internal logic. And no matter how close or far you are from real life, you need to have internal rules that you follow. Harry Potter cannot sprout wings and fly, that goes against the rules of his world

Like I said, if something doesn't follow its own rules, it's badly written. So...MGS is badly written.

Uh, what with Kojima trying to constantly have messages about nuclear warheads and with Ground Zeroes having the inhumane conditions of the prisoners of war along with the mindscrew ending of MGS2 and everything else he's ever done...I think Kojima IS trying to take this game seriously. It's just "Consistent tone" is something he's only ever heard vague theories of.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Feel free to respond to this, then.

"MGS Doesn't follow it's own rules. Gunshots kill some people, other people can shrug them off with time. A direct hit with a rocket doesn't even injure Big Boss long-term (in game action), but being near Paz blowing up put him in a coma for 9 years? I have inventory limits to my guns and ammo (even darts), but I can carry enough (lets be generous and say) Hydrogen gas, balloons, and rigs for 36 heavy vehicles without even slowing down?

It's a fun game, it's campy fun. It's a game in which you seriously hide from people in cardboard boxes. Kojima isn't the one who takes all of this too seriously, it's outrageoholics on sites like this."

"Hello, game mechanics, thing that I was explicitly talking about, how're you? Still making the game enjoyable to play? Is the bad man still using you to try and justify shitty narrative writing and character design? I'm so sorry."
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_85_if-video-games-were-realistic/

Look, someone not liking a thing you like is okay, really!

 

[Casual Shinji]

I was just watching an episode of the tv show Chuck. Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) is dressed in a kind of scanty pseudo-arab bikini, and doing a writing dance with some finger cymbals. That's not porn either, it's just pandering to their demographic.

Yeah? Was there a ludicrously stupid explaination as to why she needed to wear that outfit ALL THE TIME? Even during moments of genuine drama?

Sure, show off the attractive features of your actors/characters once in a while. But if that's all they ever do and it's completely out of character, in a story that's trying to come at you from a serious angle, then their presence is just going to poison the experience.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

The real question is: why has nobody written an article about this and called it "Anything but Quiet"
Doesn't matter what they're talking about, they just need to.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Again, it's a case of creatively working backwards, because this explanation actually makes it even worse.
She dresses like an idiot because she breathes through her skin.
She breathes through her skin because she hasn't got any lungs.
She hasn't got any lungs because a villain burned them all up.

Is there an explanation for how her lungs can get burned to a crisp, but her skin is able to remain pristine and perfectly serviceable?

Apparently her parasites gave her new skin or something.

Why skullface didn't get the same treatment? Who knows.

Seems contrived.

Skullface is the kind of guy to keep a freaky look primarily for the sake of freaking out the normies. Plus, the whole "They took everything that marked me as a man, but they couldn't take my skull" thing, so it's also probably principle.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."

I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.

Besides the point.

I'm saying that if I want sexy images on my computer screen, regardless of whether we're talking cutesy or gratuitously hardcore or anything in between, I can make that happen. Easily. I don't need video games to provide that.

And I especially don't need it when the result is otherwise pretty good games fucking up their character designs in service to my theoretical boner.

Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.

 

[Redryhno]

Snip

Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.

Or...you know, the people that don't mind her are mindful of the context in which she's presented.(that of MGS and how batshittingly stupid some of the designs are to begin with if you're going to use "the real world" complaint) and that of the something like thirty cutscenes she's in(not including helicopter scenes which you can skip by not taking her with you) there's only like four that has her "presenting" herself to you the way people keep talking about her only posing being done...Hell, even Snake "poses" the same way in the helicopter scenes, you just don't see it because of the camera angle. Most of them Quiet's just sitting around, honestly pretty covered up. Crossed legs, covering her boobs with her arms, you don't even notice the bikini straps for the most part. Honestly she looks bored most of the time like that.

And please, please, PLEASE, don't pull that crap you just pulled here with the "The people that mind her care more about MGS than you people that don't." It's a bullshit argument on the same level as that "fake gamer girl" crap people decided was unacceptable years ago, and you have to know it.

This is a series that REQUIRES you to play the other games to understand what is going on, which means the people playing this are either just jumping on the bandwagon and don't really know the nuance and story of the world(so they're honestly probably more confused with why Snake/BB has something like seven names and why a bipedal weapons platform is actually more functional and stable than tanks), or they're people that have been fans of the series for years and got the new one because it's worth it to continue with the world. Some people don't mind Quiet, and still have alot of respect for MGS, some people do mind Quiet, and still have alot of respect for MGS. Please don't try to boil it down to something as selfish as you're making it out to be. I'd argue like with most controversies when it comes to video games, most people playing don't give a flying fuck about Quiet or what she wears or the camera angles.

And as a side note, I'm both saddened and unsurprised that, once again, a side character's attire(that you can basically ignore for the majority of the game) has been deemed more important than the rest of the game if you go by how many responses this has gotten in comparison to MULTIPLE THREADS asking for people's opinions on MGS5.

Snip

No kidding. I was expecting something dark, like she got raped and this was her trying to take control of her sexuality (Which happens a lot) and instead, she got hurt, so she needs to breath through her skin. Wot?

And exactly how is your idea any better? It still takes away her agency that people are complaining about, but now there's just a generic rape story(don't even try to sell it a different way, it's generic), but without any MGS flair. And c'mon, she was an assassin sent to kill BB and was BURNED ALIVE, I think that's a dark enough backstory. Like seriously, not every woman that dresses oddly has to do it because they were raped...

Edit: As for why Skullface didn't get the skin transplant or whatever, I'd reckon it may have something to do with the guy being very much focused on Revenge as his theme and idea of the game, which is why he has the cowboy hat(a very much western reference which often has some kind of revenge plot going on), the mask(another prop of MANY revenge stories), his scars and discoloration he got long before Cipher, the guy's just oozing in revenge tropiness.

 

[Don Incognito]

Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.

I see we've now moved on to the ad hominem attack portion of the discussion. How delightful.

 

[Redryhno]

Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.

I see we've now moved on to the ad hominem attack portion of the discussion. How delightful.

Hey, people already pulled the "You obviously don't care about MGS if you don't mind Quiet" quite a few posts back junk, ad hominem started already.

 

[Erttheking]

So MGS is badly written, what's your point? It's a silly series that happened to basically invent a set of extremely lasting and entertaining gameplay conventions. Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.

MGS is badly written and this is one of the many ways in which it is badly written, that's my point. I brought it up because the OP asked about it. I mean if you AGREE that it's badly written, why do you have a problem with it? You clearly don't consider the game to be any high form of writing. You flat out said it's stupid, so why do you have a problem with me criticizing it?

Also, you're gonna have to explain how criticizing a game equals me collapsing. I'd appreciate it if you managed to counter my point without resorting to mudslinging.

 

[Redryhno]

So MGS is badly written, what's your point? It's a silly series that happened to basically invent a set of extremely lasting and entertaining gameplay conventions. Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.

MGS is badly written and this is one of the many ways in which it is badly written, that's my point. I brought it up because the OP asked about it. I mean if you AGREE that it's badly written, why do you have a problem with it? You clearly don't consider the game to be any high form of writing. You flat out said it's stupid, so why do you have a problem with me criticizing it?

Also, you're gonna have to explain how criticizing a game equals me collapsing. I'd appreciate it if you managed to counter my point without resorting to mudslinging.

Maybe because you don't "criticize" much of anything about games besides their portrayal of a handful of women and the normal "Fuck <this week's hated AAA company here>" everyone does?

And I've yet to see you in one of the numerous threads asking about MGS5 or talking about any of the shortcomings that don't involve a side character that has like four provocative scenes in something like forty scenes they appear in in the entire game? Maybe that's why they have a problem with you criticizing it? Because as usual it's completely overblown?

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?

And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

[snip]

Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.

Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

[snip]

What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?

And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

[snip]

Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.

Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?

What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place? This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)

Seriously dude, you guys are starting to come off more and more like you're body shaming more than anything else. You're also starting to give off the vibe that none of you even played this series until Quiet's design drew your ire.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Thank you, yes the first part at least is exactly the case. I can't speak to the second, but it seems like the kind of thing consistent with the people picking one unbelievable element out of a giant pile, and then holding that one element up for ridicule.

Yeah, it's almost as is said one element is what the thread's title and opening post were specifically about. Damn those SJWs, staying on topic like that.

So, is it possible to not like an aspect of a game where the only female character of note is A) optional, B) mute, and C) dressed like a video game parody image while not being some kind of game-hating, hypocritical, anti-sex crusader?

Is there even a middle ground here?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

All I know is I took a look at Quiet's design, sighed and went "Kojima, amirite?" as if someone were around to offer a rebuttal or some kind of agreement.

On the one hand, yes, her design is ridiculous and detracts from how otherwise compelling her character is. I can't wait for the PC version to be modded so her alternate costume is unlocked from the very beginning, honestly.

On the other, I'm a North American Joe Schmoe, with North American Joe Schmoe ideals and aesthetic considerations. I feel no need to include fanservice in my gaming content because I've culturally segregated the activities that involve me looking at tits (e.g. porn) from the majority of activities that don't (e.g. gaming). Aggressive titillation just isn't something I was taught or conditioned to respond to in video games. I can understand, however, that other cultures might consider it natural to seed gaming narratives with gratuitous raunchiness and I don't need to ascribe to some kind of Special Snowflake mentality. I'll just unlock Quiet's alternate costume and go from there.

It doesn't stop me from having a little reactionary devil flailing on my left shoulder, expressing all the useless outrage I'm trying to rationalize away. I feel like the game is expecting me to have fits of cartoonish libido like Tex Avery's wolf or Dragon Ball's Master Roshi, or as if there's someone, somewhere, who's genuinely zooming in on Quiet's rack and cracking a self-satisfied grin. I can't even remotely put myself in the right mindset to pull off the first, and the second just demeans the entire experience.

I felt like playing a smartly-crafted game with intriguing systems, and instead I'm having juvenile crap shoved my way. I remember MGSIV leaving me with similar feelings - I was as intellectually intrigued as I was repulsed by what I was seeing.

Captcha: whoopee cushion
Oh, come on!