Why are The Witcher 2 fans so defensive?

[LostAlone]

If you actually read, it does somewhat imply that, no, I have not played it. Seriouesly. It says that. Go back and try again.

Excuse my bugging in, but what give you the knowledge need for lamenting of something you didn't even tried?

I didn't

I said what impression I got, then said why trial and error game play is a massive design flaw that has no place in the modern industry.

Like I said first time out Witcher 2 may have none of that, but since everything I've heard and read directly says that you need to save scum or try try try try try again its not far off base.

Look, if you aren't going to read the original post, don't blame me when you don't understand what it said.

Nothing in the last paragraph is about Witcher 2 AT ALL, its just about why trial and error blows. Directly above that you'll find a sentence that says 'This is the impression I get of Witcher 2, if this is not so, then I apologies'.

Seriously.

Go back.

Actually read.

 

[Magicman10893]

Question A:

I haven't played the game myself and I likely won't, but from what I understand, frustrations with the game are born out of the lack of a tutorial, i.e. "I kept dying because I didn't know how to effectively use the controls."

In response, TW2 fans say, "Why don't you read the journal? Why don't you look it up? Do you need your hand held all the time?"

It reminds me of the release of Final Fantasy XIII. Yes, I know I'm inviting flames by drawing a comparison between these two games, but bear with me.

I hate Final Fantasy XIII. My biggest gripe with the game is that the story makes little sense. FFXIII fans usually try to refute this by saying, "It TOTALLY makes sense if you read the Datalog." (the Datalog is a collection of plot summaries, backstories, bios, etc; similar to the Codex in Dragon Age)

In previous Final Fantasy games, the story was self-contained and could be appreciated just by playing through the game normally. In Dragon Age, which also had a "Datalog," reading the Codex would give a deeper understanding of the world of Dragon Age, but it was not required to understand the main plot and characterization. With previous Final Fantasy games as precedence and alternative experiences like Dragon Age, I argue that I'm justified in saying...

...I should not have to turn to other source material to enjoy Final Fantasy XIII.

How is this different from people playing The Witcher 2 and getting frustrated because they feel they shouldn't have to "look stuff up" to have a basic enjoyment for the game?

In defense of The Witcher 2, the whole reason that a game manual exists is to give you instructions on how to do things in the game. I think reading a little manual to understand the controls and get some hints and tips on how to fight is perfectly reasonable, although most game come with in depth tutorials in the game itself. Needing to read the journal in the game in order to understand the plot is just bad. The only time they can get away with that is if the game is about you trying to find clues to solve a mystery.

Anyway besides that, Yahtzee's... critique... was actually untruthful. I don't mind him picking apart actual issues or whatever but for example he said several times how long the game is... yet it's probably one of the shortest RPGs I've played in the last year including Fallout NV, Risen, and DA 2. He actually got 1/3 of the way through it. On top of that, he got all upset because... he didn't know which button would skip the cutscene (or that it was even possible). Ok, so it doesn't tell you right away, but anybody with half a brain will start smashing buttons to skip a scene. Once you do that it tells you what button will skip it.

So basically, it's annoying to first see him essentially lie, and then it's kind of sad to see people respond with "wow guess I won't get that stupid game!".

I think he didn't realize how long the game was. I think in the review he said he heard from people that the game was supposed to be really long, or at least have so much stuff to do in it that he though the game was really long. And for the unskippable cutscenes, I remember one commenter said there was some glitch that prevented you from skipping them, or he just couldn't figure out what button was used to skip them.


OT: I think my Captcha can answer this for me, "Population Infants." PC Elitist feel they have to defend their crowning jewel. Same way Xbox Fanboys defend Gears of War, Forza, Fable and Halo to the death and PS3 Fanboys defend Uncharted or Killzone to the death.

 

[somonels]

Why are "fans", in general, very "whiny?" Limiting the discussion to a single "fanbase" is not only pointless but rubs them off even more, as it is a direct criticism suggesting that other fanbases are less "whiny".

 

[Kahunaburger]

I said what impression I got, then said why trial and error game play is a massive design flaw that has no place in the modern industry.

Like I said first time out Witcher 2 may have none of that, but since everything I've heard and read directly says that you need to save scum or try try try try try again its not far off base.

Yes and no, I'd say. Trial-and-error implies dying a lot to learn how to do something, vs. just dying a lot because the game is unforgiving. I generally didn't die a lot on a fight because I didn't know what would, in theory, work. I tended to die because the thing I was fighting hit hard and took good timing/reflexes to fight or because I got blindsided somehow (in the last case, you are never blindsided by tough enemies - it's more just standard enemies in large groups or when you're already weak from a previous fight). The prologue can be trial-and-error for people who don't read the manual in unpatched versions, but as of this latest patch should no longer be.

The combat reminded me more of something like Super Metroid or Metroid Prime - I could always figure out what I had to do, but actually implementing the plan was the tricky part haha.

 

[quantumsoul]

It's a rare kind of game that us fans would like to see more of. Too much bad opinion and sales could destroy the chances of more games like it coming out.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Was this really a big complaint? I admit, I was a tad annoyed that I couldn't bind my own keys in TW2... but when I figured out that the journal contains a break-down of how everything works (rather simplified I might add)... it was pretty easy to figure out.

You can bind your own keys from the launcher.
Which is quite inconvenient, 'cos you can't do the whole "bind and immediately test" thing .. but it's there.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I will point out that Greg's review was not particularly great, regardless of the opinion in it. In 3 pages he didn't even mention that the game has 2 entirely different separate acts, let alone the amount of choice you have within the story. I don't think he even touched upon the writing apart from to comment on the (admittedly weird) LotR reference.

As for ZP, its ZP. The only thing that irked me a little was there were a couple of inaccuracies (cutscenes are skippable).

People defend it because they really like it, and because it doesn't treat you like a moron. Which is really something these days.

I'm gonna be that guy too. Greg's review of The Witcher 2 didn't really cover many of its flaws. And left out a lot of info. His DA2 review wasn't good either. He didn't criticize anything. Maybe he shouldn't review high profile RPGs.
OP: It is a good game whose heart is in the right place. And it doesn't pull punches. That'll earn you some really loyal fans.

 

[Worr Monger]

Was this really a big complaint? I admit, I was a tad annoyed that I couldn't bind my own keys in TW2... but when I figured out that the journal contains a break-down of how everything works (rather simplified I might add)... it was pretty easy to figure out.

You can bind your own keys from the launcher.
Which is quite inconvenient, 'cos you can't do the whole "bind and immediately test" thing .. but it's there.

Guess I overlooked that.... too late, I'm used to the default controls now.

I also had to manually change the mouse to inverted through the game's directory... before they released the patch with the option to invert the mouse...

 

[TheIronRuler]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Or at least thats their train of thought. I like the game, its not the second coming of PC gaming, but its good so... yeah.

It won't be {C exclusive for long.
It'll be coming to Xbox in some time

 

[Gibboniser]

They're called fanboys, rather than just fans, fans are the ones who appreciates the game, and look forward to the sequel, fanboys are the ones who won't hear a word against it, lest the heretic be burned.

I'm quite enjoying it at the minute, not very far though, just past Yahyzee, and yeah, that cut scene was annoying, since it wouldn't actually let you skip that one, the press right mouse button the skip just dissapeared instantly.

And why does my mouse keep going invisible?

 

[Danceofmasks]

Was this really a big complaint? I admit, I was a tad annoyed that I couldn't bind my own keys in TW2... but when I figured out that the journal contains a break-down of how everything works (rather simplified I might add)... it was pretty easy to figure out.

You can bind your own keys from the launcher.
Which is quite inconvenient, 'cos you can't do the whole "bind and immediately test" thing .. but it's there.

Guess I overlooked that.... too late, I'm used to the default controls now.

I also had to manually change the mouse to inverted through the game's directory... before they released the patch with the option to invert the mouse...

Fair enough .. I'm too hardcore to use the pause menu, though.
"Forced" pausing breaks my rhythm, and being heavily into everything from fighting games to bullet hell games, rhythm is very important for getting my timings right.

I have videos on youtube showing off my style .. and frankly, if I have to use the pause menu I'd be too embarassed to upload them.

 

[RahRahReiby]

I'm a big fan of The Witcher and I'm looking to get the sequel in the next couple weeks. I think it's a great RPG and a very solid game. That being said, it's not for everyone. And that's fine. It's just like how Halo or any FPS doesn't register the slightest bit of interest from me. What I do have a problem with is when people just slag off everything but in a way that's just immature and unintelligent. Do you have a problem with the game? Fine. You're entitled to. You don't have to like a single thing about it just don't be a tool about it.

 

[CD-R]

Well of course people will defend Witcher 2, they are getting FREE DLC's(and no DRM if they bought the game from GOG.com) for a game which is cheaper by 10$ then your average game. This alone is a good reason to defend the game.

Actually the latest patches stripped out the DRM on the retail versions too.

 

[Lim3]

ZP also said that Ninja Gaiden II was to hard, but i thought it rocked and posed enough difficulty to be a challenge.

 

[Hawgh]

A:
Because you should not expect the style of game B' to be in keeping with the style of game A.

B:
Many of the complaints are not sensible complaints to make about a dedicated RPG. It's like going into a bar, ordering a gin 'n vodka and then complaining that you were served alcohol.

Furthermore. The fans are probably defensive because they are defending the game. When did fans of anything completely fold out of their opinion on the first complaint that they do not even agree with?

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I bought TW2 and stopped playing after Chapter 1. I love RPGs with good story, but the greatest story in the world couldn't make me like a game that's as boring and slow-paced as TW2. It's like a Bethesda game in that regard, and I HATE Bethesda games.

/flameshield

 

[Voodoomancer]

I haven't played the game myself, and have no real opinion of it (looks good), but from what I completely agree with you that the tutorial is lacking greatly.

 

[silent_noir_67]

i think that when people like something they don't like to have other people pick it apart. As a result they lash out in anger when said people and critics attack it for deficiencies because they think so highly of it. The same is with any sort of media. Books, video games, movies, they all have flaws and all the fans will defend them because they like that certain book/movie/game as a whole and don't enjoy people nitpicking their favorite game/book/movie etc.

ZP's review was nothing new so I don't know why everyone is getting so pissed about it. Bio shock was given a good review with the one problem he had with it: that it was "the same" as System Shock. Since he really had no other material Yahtzee played that one angle for the 4 minutes of the video. He picks apart the things that people don't really notice and makes them a huge deal because exaggeration makes them funny and because it's what critics do.

 

[Akihiko]

They're defensive for both games because the flaws given are fairly subjective. On the case of Witcher 2, I never had a problem with there being no tutorial, I could figure things out myself, and I don't doubt a lot of people are the same, consequently they don't see it as a flaw. On the hand of XIII, you say you need the datalog to understand the story? I played through the entire game without reading that same datalog and I understood it perfectly fine(Other than the ending, but the majority of FFs have shitty endings). Again, I don't doubt a lot of other people were the same, and so consequently they won't see this so called flaw that you see.

Not to say they're both flawless. I thoroughly enjoyed both, but witcher 2 had unresponsive controls, XIII took too long for the combat to completely open and both had very shitty endings.

 

[sunburst]

A: Well, your comparison isn't a very good one. See, unless you're quite daft, you should only have to look up specific instructions on how to play in the journal once or twice at most. So that's fifteen to twenty minutes you're spending not playing at the beginning of the game. Big whoop.

This is my biggest issue with TW2 fans. Several people have all had the exact same problem with the game so it's clear a problem does exist. But the fan response every time that problem is brought up is always, "Nope, that is not an actual problem. You must just be stupid. Plz L2Play"

I really liked The Witcher 2 in spite of its terrible opening and complete failure to teach me how it works. It's pretty and fun and flows really well. Once you invest the time in figuring everything out, it's absolutely worth it and people should give it a shot. Just be ready to put in an investment.