Why Did No One Pick Up The Wonder Woman Series?

[messy]

Zack Snyder doesn't have women in his films, he has pin ups written by boys for boys. For an example outside of Sucker Punch, look no further than Watchmen, in which he managed to take a deep, complex and strong female character and give her nothing to do but a slow motion soft porn sequence.

The original point of Silk Spectre was to poke fun at the fact that every, well pretty much every, female superhero is often little more then a pin up. The sex scene, with the flame thrower climax, is in the original comic books (with fire etc.) and it is "directed" in a way you know it's meant to be dramatic and over the top. Synders way of making it look as face and unrealistic as possible was the "slow motion porn" scene as you've said. Because nothing is more unrealistic then porn.

The portrayal of Silk Spectres mother was interesting, in the comic's she's sort of the original sex symbol. To the point that all she is scene for is something to have sex with, which is one of the reasons the Comedian attempts to rape her (please note here I'm not saying she deserved it or anything like that). But at the same time it seemed to be the fountain of all her self-confidence so she has conflicted views over her past, and still tries to push it onto her daughter. The younger silk spectre in the comic is better covered, but then again are all of the characters she doesn't have cool one liners like the comedian though, but in the film they've focused on the destructive effect that being a "sex symbol" superhero would have.

Suker punch however has no such defence and I agree that looking across a movie poster you can just tick of a few cliché male fantasies and "hollywood" telling men what we should find attractive.

The reason I think a wonder woman film may not work, at current, is because a lot of people go to see superhero films and imagine themselves in the role. I believe it is harder with a male to picture himself as a female, not due to some genetic lack of empathy of a differently laid out neurons, but because they've never had to do it before. When they've had years of pretending to be __________man. Also the number of women I know who read comics are often just appalled at the costumes (google Star Sapphire costumes for the most rediculous, and this is coming from a massive GL fanboy) and regardless of how detailed a back story they have some of it is lost, I feel, when you know the first few moments there in costume someone will so "look at the breasts on her."

 

[Dastardly]

Why Did No One Pick Up The Wonder Woman Series?

Explain to me why female heroes are still a relative novelty.

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Because advertisers rely on time-tested formulas to tell them when to buy screen time to reach the maximum amount of potential customers. And because producers rely on time-tested formulas to tell them how many advertisers they'll need to make a show profitable.

Superheroes are for boys. Girls like things like Glee. At least, that's what the old formulas say.

So, show doesn't get picked up because the network doesn't feel it can get the ad dollars to support it. Advertisers don't invest because they don't believe they'll get the viewership they need to make it profitable. And all of this because we, the customers, make this true with our unfortunately narrow viewing habits.

Though that has been shifting, we've also been shifting to watching shows online or in boxed sets, so advertisers aren't quite seeing this shift. When the production, distribution, and advertising forces reach an equilibrium, we might start to see shows like this getting picked up more often...

 

[hyperdrachen]

Why Did No One Pick Up The Wonder Woman Series?

Explain to me why female heroes are still a relative novelty.

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I feal like I've said this a million times, but, you cannot hope to end the token/novelty of female characters by demanding "great female characters". You are contributing to the token element. It matters to you that the character is female. Once you've taken it down this road you are on the same level as the focus groups that market stereotypes, to stereotypes. Which means you end up with a bunch of dumbed down characters that spend the movie screaming thier ethnicity/gender. There's no progress to be made here by beating at it with the "gimme good female leads" hammer.

That said I think TV series, moreso liveaction, are garbage. But a good wonderwomen movie I think is doable. It needs to be something that draws on the greek mythology themes, and pit her against some of the cool villians. Hell you could throw Devastation in there.

"Devastation" Wonder Woman vol. 2, #143 (April 1999) The titan known as Cronus created Devastation much the same way Wonder Woman was created: by having life breathed into a clay female figure. With his Titan children each blessing her with dark gifts, she is Cronus' champion who he hopes will defeat Olympus' champion: Wonder Woman. With almost the same powers, this demi-goddess is almost an exact copy of Wonder Woman, save for the dark twist behind her powers.

 

[mazeut]

There are plenty of female superheros but unless they hoist the flag of some sort of feminist virtue they don't seem to count. Spend to much time pushing a message and you lose character and story. Tv already spends to much time trying to be liked by everyone (ie getting the largest demographic possible) so why would you expect them to be able to handle something like Wonder Woman.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Wonder Woman character I just think shes very easily mishandled. She and the Amazonians are feminine role models for a warrior culture, not the work a day life we live. If she sang "I am woman hear me roar" she would do it on a blooded battlefield to celebrate her victory. Give her to tv and they would either push the lesbian thing for ratings or (shutter) send her to a high school prom.

 

[Keith K]

My apathy toward Wonder Woman has little to do with her breasts. She simply makes no sense to me. Similar sentiment is shared among the entirety of the DC universe, with the only exception being Batman.

And even Batman is only interesting in media outside of comics.

There could absolutely be more female heroes but asking specifically for Wonder Woman is probably a fallacy.

Is it shallow or somehow unacceptable to look to Lara Croft as a leading female hero? Or toward the X-Men, the most powerful of whom, Jean Grey/Phoenix, happens to be a woman? How about Beatrix Kiddo and the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad?

You don't have to look to far to find great female heroes. You just have to dig really deep if you want to find something relevant about Wonder Woman specifically.

 

[Kwatsu]

If people will watch Million Dollar Baby, why wouldn't they watch a female superhero movie if done well?

 

[Slycne]

This is where the fact checking would come in handy. Among the things FOX did to ruin Firefly:

snip

So again, before going off about how Whedon sucks and that's the reason Firefly was cancelled, check your facts. These are well documented all over.

Which is exactly what I meant by Fox mismanaging or possibly even setting the show up for failure, but I never understand why this is such a hard truth to swallow for Firefly fans. As if its rating were somehow proportional to its quality. Remember that after Fox canned it and despite massive fan support, no other network wanted to pick it up either.

Unless you honestly believe Fox would cancel a successful and profitable show.

I think what's more telling about the situation is that the viewing populace at large can turn mediocre one/two camera production reality shows into massive profits relative to their cost. This is what I think ultimately did Firefly in. Even if it could find a decent audience, its cost relative to that audience was never going to be high enough.

Notice that Firefly started to really take off after it went to the more accessible DVD, which is also a sign of the changing times that less and less people want to tune into tv schedules.

 

[Slycne]

Again, wrong. Universal on more than one occasion professed interest towards the show and even the Sci-Fi channel was interested in it, but FOX refused to sell the rights to any competitor, instead choosing the Disney tactic of, "we're not using it, but damn it to hell if anyone is going to make money off of this!"

I'd like to see a source on that, because everything I've heard/read was that the show simply wasn't picked up. UPN didn't have the money despite connections to Whedon, Sci-Fi was already invested in BSG, none of the other expressed interest and Universal/NBC only ended up making the film after the DVD sales did so well, which Fox sold the film rights to.

 

[mxfox408]

Haha got to love how femanists destroy everything they touch, it explains why no one cares for wonderwomen. Besides DC comics heroes are way out of date not including batman or superman. Id like to see the flash and waiting to see how the green lantern turns out.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

It could work but they have to not talk her out of her fictional world and not try and do messagey or over sexuilized crap.

The trouble is tho any comic book like show is going to have a ton of issues, the only one I know of that managed to make it far was smallvile and I so hated its soap opera feel.

I think Xena got alot of "LOOK WE HAVE OUR OWN CHANNEL" money so meh Firefly and Angle less comic more fantasy based and Angle ran mostly on the heels of Babi the vampire slayer, I know know it starts with a B. Charmed did well but there again fanatsy riding a wave of camp and soap operaness.

I guess anything will do well if it can find a niche and stay away from the exec axe but comic stuff seems to have the hardest time.

 

[Bakuryukun]

I may get some flack for this, but seriously the reason I've never been into Wonder Woman...is that she's just kind of silly. More power to you if she's your cup of tea, but seriously, Magic Lasso?

 

[BehattedWanderer]

But the issue shouldn't be that she's a woman. The issue is that apart from her role in the JLA and associated alliances, no one really knows Wonder Woman on her own. Amazonian princess, sure, but once that's out, we only see her related to Batman, Superman, The Green Lantern, those guys. She doesn't have a undeniable archnemesis to be her Lex Luthor or any one of the billions of Batman enemies that are signature to the Caped Crusader. Sure, she has the DC Hercules, but...really? Is that really what we want of the character?

And then there's the actual tools/powers that are the bread and butter of the superhero. The way the character is known, her powers are more equivocal of the stereotypical Oriental Masters style of training, without swords or spears. A western adaptation of that would be the way to go, but you would almost need to specifically show how the old Gods used to run things, who were the badasses of the day, and then show Diana coming forward with the best of their traits.

More or less, we need to do to Wonder Woman what was done to Thor. Show her on Themyscira solving issues, having to leave, and return when it's being threatened by someone. Show her weakening as she leaves, and thus the need for the belt, with maybe some self revelatory renewal after her return, reminding her that she has the gifts of no less than six of the Olympians--and that's no small feat.

You show me this, and I'll be interested in a Wonder Woman movie/series. You show me something where the central theme is empowerment for feminism, I'll grow tired of it, despite its adherence to the original characterization. You show me a woman holding up collapsing bridges and buildings, running at 80 miles an hour, and channeling the strength to do so from the Earth itself and maintaining that strength by never holding herself in subservience to a man--sounds great.

 

[Smokescreen]

But the issue shouldn't be that she's a woman. The issue is that apart from her role in the JLA and associated alliances, no one really knows Wonder Woman on her own. Amazonian princess, sure, but once that's out, we only see her related to Batman, Superman, The Green Lantern, those guys. She doesn't have a undeniable archnemesis to be her Lex Luthor or any one of the billions of Batman enemies that are signature to the Caped Crusader. Sure, she has the DC Hercules, but...really? Is that really what we want of the character?

And then there's the actual tools/powers that are the bread and butter of the superhero. The way the character is known, her powers are more equivocal of the stereotypical Oriental Masters style of training, without swords or spears. A western adaptation of that would be the way to go, but you would almost need to specifically show how the old Gods used to run things, who were the badasses of the day, and then show Diana coming forward with the best of their traits.

More or less, we need to do to Wonder Woman what was done to Thor. Show her on Themyscira solving issues, having to leave, and return when it's being threatened by someone. Show her weakening as she leaves, and thus the need for the belt, with maybe some self revelatory renewal after her return, reminding her that she has the gifts of no less than six of the Olympians--and that's no small feat.

You show me this, and I'll be interested in a Wonder Woman movie/series. You show me something where the central theme is empowerment for feminism, I'll grow tired of it, despite its adherence to the original characterization. You show me a woman holding up collapsing bridges and buildings, running at 80 miles an hour, and channeling the strength to do so from the Earth itself and maintaining that strength by never holding herself in subservience to a man--sounds great.

This is why comics ought to be ideal for Wonder Woman; think Deadwood or The Wire level plots with WW. Greg Rucka did something similar; WW is a political figure (ambassador) as well as a heroine. So you could have high level plotting coupled with ass kickery-and comic books are a great ground to burn those ideas on, try them out and get into a groove.

But nobody seems to want to highlight the great stories that were told and/or continue to tell that level of story so we have people like you who (no offense) don't know much about the character and others who insist that she's boring.

Fuck, they're all boring if you think about it because you know how that story is going to end.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

But the issue shouldn't be that she's a woman. The issue is that apart from her role in the JLA and associated alliances, no one really knows Wonder Woman on her own. Amazonian princess, sure, but once that's out, we only see her related to Batman, Superman, The Green Lantern, those guys. She doesn't have a undeniable archnemesis to be her Lex Luthor or any one of the billions of Batman enemies that are signature to the Caped Crusader. Sure, she has the DC Hercules, but...really? Is that really what we want of the character?

And then there's the actual tools/powers that are the bread and butter of the superhero. The way the character is known, her powers are more equivocal of the stereotypical Oriental Masters style of training, without swords or spears. A western adaptation of that would be the way to go, but you would almost need to specifically show how the old Gods used to run things, who were the badasses of the day, and then show Diana coming forward with the best of their traits.

More or less, we need to do to Wonder Woman what was done to Thor. Show her on Themyscira solving issues, having to leave, and return when it's being threatened by someone. Show her weakening as she leaves, and thus the need for the belt, with maybe some self revelatory renewal after her return, reminding her that she has the gifts of no less than six of the Olympians--and that's no small feat.

You show me this, and I'll be interested in a Wonder Woman movie/series. You show me something where the central theme is empowerment for feminism, I'll grow tired of it, despite its adherence to the original characterization. You show me a woman holding up collapsing bridges and buildings, running at 80 miles an hour, and channeling the strength to do so from the Earth itself and maintaining that strength by never holding herself in subservience to a man--sounds great.

This is why comics ought to be ideal for Wonder Woman; think Deadwood or The Wire level plots with WW. Greg Rucka did something similar; WW is a political figure (ambassador) as well as a heroine. So you could have high level plotting coupled with ass kickery-and comic books are a great ground to burn those ideas on, try them out and get into a groove.

But nobody seems to want to highlight the great stories that were told and/or continue to tell that level of story so we have people like you who (no offense) don't know much about the character and others who insist that she's boring.

Fuck, they're all boring if you think about it because you know how that story is going to end.

None taken, I only know so much about the character, and haven't seen her at all beyond the JLA and a few probably non-canon comics. In all of that, I've never seen the character do something on her own, or if she does, she botches it up and needs help from the others, as they all do from time to time. But, on the grounds of just WW as a stand alone character, the image needs some adjustment--the public only knows so much about her, we hardly see her, and her costume doesn't exactly scream 21st century. In an age where Batman drives a tank and we have an honest to gods Iron Man walking around next to an irradiated green beast and a Norse God, the Amazonian princess wearing what looks more or less like a bathing suit to fight crime isn't a great point. It's a time when superheros are being taken seriously, and the common perspective of her isn't that at all, sadly.

 

[pearsmb06]

Am I the only one who thinks that it's sad that in this day and age the immediate reaction to this sort of thing is pull the sexism card. We've had female action heroes for decades they're not novel, they're barely noteworthy anymore.

But, nobody paid for wonder woman? It has to be sexism! Couldn't possibly be budget concerns or the fact that the title character is utterly ridiculous.

Give me a break.

 

[cynical conservative]

Allow me to remind all of you of the existence of this.

yeah, but Michelle Pfeiffer was so much better

 

[KarumaK]

SNIP*

Nope, this is all complete bullshit. Have you actually read any comics with these heroes in them?

She's recovered greater injuries than Superman by connecting to the earth. If you don't know that she's immune to mind control or illusions then you obviously know nothing about her. That's part of the only reason why she was able to stop Maxvell Lord when he was controlling Superman. Only reason why Manchester Black can't play her like a ukulele. You also don't see to know ANYTHING about how her bracelets work. They create a shield around her that allows her to block any incoming projectile or attack. Furthermore she's immune to all sorts of fires and has taken attacks from skyfathers... no one who's brushed by her in the comics would think she's vulnerable to gunfire. You think her training's not relevant, which is just terrible. It's unbelievably relevant for anyone in the justice league. Without it she would never have lasted a second against Konvikt or Amazo, not to mention Zoom. Against which she did FAAAAAR better than Superman.

Regardless the comparison between Batman and Superman is asinine. Batman would be a stain on the concrete against her and Superman's only proven to be her slight superior/equal many times. She doesn't need to be equal to Superman to have a place in the DC verse, as NONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF HEROES THEY HAVE seem to make it up there with him. Doesn't make her any worse of a character. Ignoring the fact that everything you've said has been one hundred percent wrong, the powers and abilities do not determine the quality nor the potential of a character. If that was the case then the Question and Starman would not have been one of the greatest characters in the dc-verse.

Just finished reading Superman: Red Son actually. Where she lost to both Superman AND Batman. Amazing training she's got there isn't it? She has not recovered from greater injuries than Superman who has literally healed from death. I've SEEN her mind controlled so I'm not even pretending to take that claim seriously as I know that that is not one of her default powers; which is more proof of a bad character that you actually need to guess as to which powers she'll have in any particular medium. I also know that she is specifically vulnerable to piercing attacks like bullets and arrows so again, no.

Summary; You are wrong during perhaps 75% of that rant.
P.S. The Question and Starman greatest DC-verse heroes? I'd... I'd laugh but death by suffocation seems painful.