KingHodor said:
lovest harding said:
The hard part about that is most of what is there in terms of cruelty to their own people are anecdotes. There are tangible examples of the slaves in the camp, but there's only a few of those.
We know that the Legion plans to completely wipe out the Khan's way of life once they join their ranks (killing off the elderly, selling the women into slavery, and crucifying anyone opposed to this altering of their deal with Caesar), so yeah, we do know how they treat their "friends".
Women are mostly considered household slaves and breeding livestock that can be sold like cattle. Children of slaves are taken away from their parents and brainwashed into becoming child soldiers.
And even if you're a male legionary who managed to live to become an officer, you're still expected to perform your breeding duties, and love nothing but Caesar and the Legion itself - as we hear from Jimmy (a gay prostitute in Outer Vegas who used to be a servant in the Legion), homosexuality is punished by death, so his master and lover, a centurion, had to send him away when his comrades became suspicious of their relationship.
That is also anecdotal (as we don't witness them turning on their friends in game). What I'm saying is that the anecdotes aren't as effective as actually showing them treating their friends/allies/own people in such a deplorable way. There's a difference between knowing and witnessing. I know that if I jump into traffic I will get hurt, but seeing someone do it will have a huge impact on me. That's why I feel there is leeway in forgiving people for siding with the Legion. Because unless you take specific side quests/talking to the right people (the Khan side quest to change leadership/side with the NCR, where your example comes from, or talking to Jimmy), you just don't know that's how the Legion works. If all people know is that people don't like them and that they're slavers (by taking the NCRs side or going into in depth discussions/side quests with followers), it's hard to just know that the Legion isn't just like the Slaver group from the first or second game (who weren't great people, but they did nothing close to the atrocities of the Legion).
Go talk to Caesar. He's a flawed guy with his head in a pretty strange head space. I'm not saying he'll change your opinion of the Legion (it didn't change mine), but I think it gives some insight into why there are people who side with the Legion.
And let's face it. There are sane people when it comes to the Fallout world who feel slavery/dictatorship is a necessary evil (considering limited resources, sheer need to keep masses under control).
I'm not saying the Legion isn't horrible, in fact, I agree with your point on them being a non-option for me (I might complete their quest line for the achievements at some point). But you can't discount an opinion as insane when there are lots of reasons a sane person might side with the Legion (they appear to be the most solid society in the game, whether true or not; they know how to effectively defend their allies as Cass says; without following certain sidequests they simply don't seem as controlling/overpowering as they are; there's even an instant of confusion when a gay soldier in the NCR tells the player if the PC has the Confirmed Bachelor perk that the Legion is okay with gay relationships and without talking to Jimmy the player wouldn't know otherwise).
When all the options are flawed, its easier to make justifications for one side. I applaud Obsidian for doing that.
I think I may be muddling my point. Sorry for that.
All I'm saying is that all the evidence for how truly psychopathic the Legion is is anecdotal (meaning the evidence has less impact on the player) and requires the player finding it. That makes saying that all the people who choose the Legion aren't sane unrealistic as there are people who are just ignorant of the reality of the Legion and people who find justifications for the Legion's actions according to the Fallout world.