That's not true, it can be but it isn't always, I myself try to see how far in the game I can go without leveling up, sometimes though you are presented with a bunch of xp and you have no choice but to level up. While it is hilarious to oneshot the final boss sometimes I want to have to struggle to beat my opponent.
Why so much hate for Turn Based Games?
- Thread starter PedroSteckecilo
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Advance wars was a pretty good game when they gave you a bunch of units up against an enemy bunch, but when they give you a factory, you can pretty much end up with about 20+ units, all of which had to be moved manually, which basically slows down gameplay to a crawl as you slowly move the cursor over every unit in your arsenal trying to find the best position. Don't get me wrong, it's a brillant game, just that it gets extremely tedious when you have to build up units.
As for the issue at hand, the main problem would undoubtly be repition. Most RPGs require you to grind for levels at some point, which, considering a TBC system already inherent boringess, is just making things worse. Plus there's also how it stagnates after awhile, because, frankly, you seen one of them, you've seen it all, unless it had some sort of deep strategy element involved and your characters aren't overpowered hunk of solid steel that pretty much evaporates anything it touches. And another thing is that chances of you coming out unscathed from any combat are slim. While this holds true for pretty much any genre of gaming, at least when you take damage in RTC, you know it's your fault for not dodging the bullet/sword/laser/ or whatever it wasand not the computer being a *****, unless the AI is downright cheap, while in turn based combat, it's not something you have control over. It's undeniably fustrating when you are only 2 steps away from a safe point with one hp left when you are suddenly ambushed by a group of slimes andget your ass handed over to you in one hit.
As for the issue at hand, the main problem would undoubtly be repition. Most RPGs require you to grind for levels at some point, which, considering a TBC system already inherent boringess, is just making things worse. Plus there's also how it stagnates after awhile, because, frankly, you seen one of them, you've seen it all, unless it had some sort of deep strategy element involved and your characters aren't overpowered hunk of solid steel that pretty much evaporates anything it touches. And another thing is that chances of you coming out unscathed from any combat are slim. While this holds true for pretty much any genre of gaming, at least when you take damage in RTC, you know it's your fault for not dodging the bullet/sword/laser/ or whatever it wasand not the computer being a *****, unless the AI is downright cheap, while in turn based combat, it's not something you have control over. It's undeniably fustrating when you are only 2 steps away from a safe point with one hp left when you are suddenly ambushed by a group of slimes andget your ass handed over to you in one hit.
PedroSteckecilo said:
but them moving or not is an aspect of game-play. kind of the fun of a video game is the "video" part.
And its not nice to insult people's intelligence because they don't like turn based combat. It doesn't make them stupid. Its a preference for a different style of gaming.
My take on this matter? Of course i'll tell you.
You see, i got old. In my teenage years I'll tackle whatever dragon final fantasy 4567tactics89 told me to. Yes, they're not the only games out there but they were the ones i played the most.
Now, putting so much time and effort to these worlds seems like a waste of time, since I'm trying to shape or modify the world around me to have a pleasent life. It's not hate, just lack of time and different priorities. It's much faster to play some halo 3 one night a week than following this story and stats and powers and attacks and characters and cutscenes and bosses and villains. Once I stop playing for two weeks or so I've always felt the urge to start again, mainly because i didnt know what i was supposed to do, or kill, or go to. Stick with the flow of the story, if you may.
You see, i got old. In my teenage years I'll tackle whatever dragon final fantasy 4567tactics89 told me to. Yes, they're not the only games out there but they were the ones i played the most.
Now, putting so much time and effort to these worlds seems like a waste of time, since I'm trying to shape or modify the world around me to have a pleasent life. It's not hate, just lack of time and different priorities. It's much faster to play some halo 3 one night a week than following this story and stats and powers and attacks and characters and cutscenes and bosses and villains. Once I stop playing for two weeks or so I've always felt the urge to start again, mainly because i didnt know what i was supposed to do, or kill, or go to. Stick with the flow of the story, if you may.
I agree that Turn Based Combat sucks, I know that because I recently decided to play Civilization 3 again and I just can't bring myself to finish it when I reach a certain point I get so bored waiting for the next turn either watching auto workers or deciding those same 100 workers moves individually over and over - and I tried to play Baldur's Gate 2 for the first time and found myself not even completing the first dungeon to escape, at least partly because I was having trouble understanding the older take on the D&D rule set... or does it? I still play X-Com from time to time - no other game seems to give me that same glee when I blow stuff up then, grab the loot, and research the heck out of it; Ogre Battle 64 was some weird fun that seemed turned based; Couldn't seem to get enough of Chrono Trigger (edit) and Secret of Mana...
I feel like I know where both sides come from, I find Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy combat so very boring, but at the same time just would feel robbed if I had to control my squad of alien killers in X-Com in real time. *shrug* Maybe what I need is some weird kind of mix of TBC where it requires some thought and is cool to watch, kinda like if the game designer would have the fore sight to make it look and feel like "bullet time" so you still get the action AND the quick yet deep decision making process.
I feel like I know where both sides come from, I find Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy combat so very boring, but at the same time just would feel robbed if I had to control my squad of alien killers in X-Com in real time. *shrug* Maybe what I need is some weird kind of mix of TBC where it requires some thought and is cool to watch, kinda like if the game designer would have the fore sight to make it look and feel like "bullet time" so you still get the action AND the quick yet deep decision making process.
Speaking as a shameless fan of Fallout, to qualify my opinion, I believe Turnbased has had it's time.
We no longer require symbolic visuals, invisible dicerolls and a turn-based calculation system, our computer hardware has by far surpassed the necessity, originally imposed due to weak hardware, before that established by Pen and Paper gaming, or even as far back as Chess and it's precursors in history.
We now CAN depict, in realtime, a complex scene with many unpredictable factors, and with the aid of procedural animation technology, dynamic sound and physics, can throw a player into the middle of it to interact as he sees fit.
System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, Bioshock and others have to date provided an atmospheric RPG experience that was only enhanced by the necessity of forward planning and on-the-fly decisions, the ability to react to events.
Any fool can win a fight if given infinite time to prepare and plan his actions, and without a challenge, a game does lose much of it's purpose.
Games utilising turn-based combat have afforded me a great deal of entertainment over the years, no lie, but gaming evolves, like all things.
Knowing I could have the same thing in realtime, challenging my reactions, both mental and physical and carrying stern consequences for panic or foolishness makes the old methods seem.. Obsolete.
And for all that I love it, going back to Fallout and tapping my fingers on the desk irritably while I wait for all the civilians to take their turns running around in circles meaninglessly before I can fire one more bullet is not as entertaining as it once was.
And don't even get me started on Jagged Alliance 2. If only I'd found that game earlier!
The bottom line; When I know I only have a limited amount of time to make a decision and carry out an action, and that every moment of delay carries a risk, I feel like I am really there.
If, in real life, I could pause time at will to consider my options, I would not be in disagreement.
I enjoy immersion. I want to believe I'm there.
We no longer require symbolic visuals, invisible dicerolls and a turn-based calculation system, our computer hardware has by far surpassed the necessity, originally imposed due to weak hardware, before that established by Pen and Paper gaming, or even as far back as Chess and it's precursors in history.
We now CAN depict, in realtime, a complex scene with many unpredictable factors, and with the aid of procedural animation technology, dynamic sound and physics, can throw a player into the middle of it to interact as he sees fit.
System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, Bioshock and others have to date provided an atmospheric RPG experience that was only enhanced by the necessity of forward planning and on-the-fly decisions, the ability to react to events.
Any fool can win a fight if given infinite time to prepare and plan his actions, and without a challenge, a game does lose much of it's purpose.
Games utilising turn-based combat have afforded me a great deal of entertainment over the years, no lie, but gaming evolves, like all things.
Knowing I could have the same thing in realtime, challenging my reactions, both mental and physical and carrying stern consequences for panic or foolishness makes the old methods seem.. Obsolete.
And for all that I love it, going back to Fallout and tapping my fingers on the desk irritably while I wait for all the civilians to take their turns running around in circles meaninglessly before I can fire one more bullet is not as entertaining as it once was.
And don't even get me started on Jagged Alliance 2. If only I'd found that game earlier!
The bottom line; When I know I only have a limited amount of time to make a decision and carry out an action, and that every moment of delay carries a risk, I feel like I am really there.
If, in real life, I could pause time at will to consider my options, I would not be in disagreement.
I enjoy immersion. I want to believe I'm there.
'allo all, first post. The debate sucked me in and the pedant in me demanded I join in.
Right, I'll say this for Civ. One of the worst things about the game was, for me, waiting around while the computer faffed and apparently moved a boat back and forth from the same square. Worse, the same would somtimes happen with entire armies headed by the most indecisive commander in the world... until I found I could turn it off for civ's you're not at war with. It was like relief from constipation. It still took a little while for the computer to calculate its turns, but at least you didn't have to bollock around watching the halfwit computer intelligence send its swordmen marching to the top of the hill and right back down blah blah. Before I discovered I could do that, I used to read a book or listen to music to kill the boredom.
When I think of turn based games, I automatically think of Civ, Advance Wars and the ever loved Xcom, as well as total war a bit. One thing that put me off from the turn based combat in many RPG's was the way that you were forced to watch some smug tit perform identical, earth splitting moves on the same malnourished dog-thing in order for an incremental increase in your progress. It was just a waste of time. The only game which I got past that with was KOTOR, which didn't seem too dragged out compared to some other games. I guess Baldurs Gate counts as well, but I'd always forget to play after I inevitably get wiped out by some crap monster and then realise I should have saved three hours ago.
Turn based strategy on the other hand, presents a pretty big sum of possible actions. You get time to sit there and mull on your future objectives, each turn sort of being a puzzle. The only problem I have with TB strategy games is when you're controlling a lot of units. Then it's a pain in the arse, moving your 22nd infantry unit fowards a square until the game feels more like you're filling out your accounting in Excel than pushing forwards legions of unwilling men to their miserable but glorious deaths.
However, especially in games like Civ, I always liked how each game would never really be similar (except for the usual resource manager), wheras in TB RGP games, it's all too bloody similar. That was at the cost of having the odd computerised spearmen defeat my tank due to random chance, but I justify it myself by thinking that tanks can break down and crap, like in the 1st world war.
I think the happy medium of having a lot of control while not being inundated with micromanagement is best.
I also think that there are less turn based games because, basically, it's easier to do other stuff instead on other game types. You're in a fairly limited medium, the only way to change it would be to add more options, which people generally aren't fond of. And, at least with turn based games, it's based upon strategy and (some) thought wheras the majority of other games are just twitch games, testing your ability to convulse automatically.
Well, there's also RTS games, and while I enjoy them a good deal, I also suck at them a lot. I used to think I was hot stuff 'till I went online. Ahah. I can train myself up but eh... I like having time to think. That's pretty much how it is for me anyhow.
TL;DR version: No. Read through it or get stuffed.
Right, I'll say this for Civ. One of the worst things about the game was, for me, waiting around while the computer faffed and apparently moved a boat back and forth from the same square. Worse, the same would somtimes happen with entire armies headed by the most indecisive commander in the world... until I found I could turn it off for civ's you're not at war with. It was like relief from constipation. It still took a little while for the computer to calculate its turns, but at least you didn't have to bollock around watching the halfwit computer intelligence send its swordmen marching to the top of the hill and right back down blah blah. Before I discovered I could do that, I used to read a book or listen to music to kill the boredom.
When I think of turn based games, I automatically think of Civ, Advance Wars and the ever loved Xcom, as well as total war a bit. One thing that put me off from the turn based combat in many RPG's was the way that you were forced to watch some smug tit perform identical, earth splitting moves on the same malnourished dog-thing in order for an incremental increase in your progress. It was just a waste of time. The only game which I got past that with was KOTOR, which didn't seem too dragged out compared to some other games. I guess Baldurs Gate counts as well, but I'd always forget to play after I inevitably get wiped out by some crap monster and then realise I should have saved three hours ago.
Turn based strategy on the other hand, presents a pretty big sum of possible actions. You get time to sit there and mull on your future objectives, each turn sort of being a puzzle. The only problem I have with TB strategy games is when you're controlling a lot of units. Then it's a pain in the arse, moving your 22nd infantry unit fowards a square until the game feels more like you're filling out your accounting in Excel than pushing forwards legions of unwilling men to their miserable but glorious deaths.
However, especially in games like Civ, I always liked how each game would never really be similar (except for the usual resource manager), wheras in TB RGP games, it's all too bloody similar. That was at the cost of having the odd computerised spearmen defeat my tank due to random chance, but I justify it myself by thinking that tanks can break down and crap, like in the 1st world war.
I think the happy medium of having a lot of control while not being inundated with micromanagement is best.
I also think that there are less turn based games because, basically, it's easier to do other stuff instead on other game types. You're in a fairly limited medium, the only way to change it would be to add more options, which people generally aren't fond of. And, at least with turn based games, it's based upon strategy and (some) thought wheras the majority of other games are just twitch games, testing your ability to convulse automatically.
Well, there's also RTS games, and while I enjoy them a good deal, I also suck at them a lot. I used to think I was hot stuff 'till I went online. Ahah. I can train myself up but eh... I like having time to think. That's pretty much how it is for me anyhow.
TL;DR version: No. Read through it or get stuffed.
yeah he hits it on the head their. It's a prefference, not a sighn of ADD or a love of shiny things, I actually think turn based games inherantly require less brain power because you have all the time in the world to do what you need to do, that and the lv up thing "which I've already raved about, sorry me and my brother got sort of carried away". Thats my opinion, not yours. But you ar'nt setting up an intelligent discussion by bashing away at those who oppose your argument.YuppySlime said:
yeah he hits it on the head their. It's a prefference, not a sighn of ADD or a love of shiny things, I actually think turn based games inherantly require less brain power because you have all the time in the world to do what you need to do, that and the lv up thing "which I've already raved about, sorry me and my brother got sort of carried away". Thats my opinion, not yours. But you ar'nt setting up an intelligent discussion by bashing away at those who oppose your argument.YuppySlime said:
I like turn based games.
I think it has more to do with preference than anything. But don't get me wrong, I like strategy and fps games as well as 2d fighters, side-scrollers, and old school button mashers.
Turn based simply isn't slow to me. It's, rather, a different way of playing.
On the same note, I hated the battle system in Disgaea, FF Tactics, and so forth. Some turn-based stuff I can take, but not that. I don't need a simple battle between my characters and two weakling enemies to take thirty minutes to complete because I cannot get across the map of squares.
I think it has more to do with preference than anything. But don't get me wrong, I like strategy and fps games as well as 2d fighters, side-scrollers, and old school button mashers.
Turn based simply isn't slow to me. It's, rather, a different way of playing.
On the same note, I hated the battle system in Disgaea, FF Tactics, and so forth. Some turn-based stuff I can take, but not that. I don't need a simple battle between my characters and two weakling enemies to take thirty minutes to complete because I cannot get across the map of squares.
I love turn based games. Any game with a movement grid or hexes is good in my books. Disgaea, FF Tactics, Advance Wars, I came late to the x-com train, so I didn't like it much, they all have grids.
Turn-based RPGs = kinda boring, kinda annoying
Turn-based Strategy/Tactical RPGs = awesome
Turn-based RPGs = kinda boring, kinda annoying
Turn-based Strategy/Tactical RPGs = awesome
Cheer up. At least you apparently have your own forum where no-one is ignorant and all articles are discussed in well informed, objective and polite manners.AlphaWolf13 said:
To answer the original question of the thread...
Turn Based games receive just as much hate as any other form of game. There will always be niches in the gaming community that dislike the other forms of gaming, and no amount of logical arguments, illogical arguments, or foaming-at-the-mouth ranting will change that. The difference is, the majority of the amount of people who hate RPGs and Turn-based style gameplay in general are more vocal than the type who like them.
I personally love Turn Based games. It allows for the execution of well designed and choreographed -- yes, choreographed, like the stuff you see in action movies -- combat scenes, and anyone who says that turned based fights don't look pretty clearly has only ever played old sprite RPGs. When in an action real time fight will you be able to perform a perfectly executed twenty one combination strike and follow it up with a daemon from the abyss ripping up the terrain and annihilating the enemy party in one blow? Not very often as you'd get shot in the head from a random NPC to the side and have to start it all over again.
Really in the end it's all a matter of opinion and personal tastes. Turn-Based combat brings the fight to a more personal and stylish level while Real Time offers the frenetic blood-pounding experience resemblant to the parents section of a little league baseball game. I like Turned Based RPGs because I prefer to sometimes only leisurely play a game. I don't want to have to wear my fingers to the bone with rapid button mashing just to 'experience the action' all the time, but at the same time there are periods where I enjoy the real time action experience for the thrill of the fight.
Now I only wish that people would stop fighting over whose genre is better and just play the damned games for enjoyment's sake.
Turn Based games receive just as much hate as any other form of game. There will always be niches in the gaming community that dislike the other forms of gaming, and no amount of logical arguments, illogical arguments, or foaming-at-the-mouth ranting will change that. The difference is, the majority of the amount of people who hate RPGs and Turn-based style gameplay in general are more vocal than the type who like them.
I personally love Turn Based games. It allows for the execution of well designed and choreographed -- yes, choreographed, like the stuff you see in action movies -- combat scenes, and anyone who says that turned based fights don't look pretty clearly has only ever played old sprite RPGs. When in an action real time fight will you be able to perform a perfectly executed twenty one combination strike and follow it up with a daemon from the abyss ripping up the terrain and annihilating the enemy party in one blow? Not very often as you'd get shot in the head from a random NPC to the side and have to start it all over again.
Really in the end it's all a matter of opinion and personal tastes. Turn-Based combat brings the fight to a more personal and stylish level while Real Time offers the frenetic blood-pounding experience resemblant to the parents section of a little league baseball game. I like Turned Based RPGs because I prefer to sometimes only leisurely play a game. I don't want to have to wear my fingers to the bone with rapid button mashing just to 'experience the action' all the time, but at the same time there are periods where I enjoy the real time action experience for the thrill of the fight.
Now I only wish that people would stop fighting over whose genre is better and just play the damned games for enjoyment's sake.
I HATE turn based because I play games in 20 minute bursts I can only play an RTS in that not a turn based strategy.
I used to like them but the whole thing is just the same move and hoping for the better.
I know the whole gaming industry is basically repetitions of the same damn thing over and over. but turn based is just the most annoying out of any you kill and opponent using the same combo. then when they lvl up you just switch one move for the other im sorry but this is just a terrible idea for gameplay.
It's like yelling and screaming in the streets that you found an awesome hooker who does everything of your sexual fantasies. but when your friends see her it's in fact your grandmother.
Just stupid from the start and old compared to the options you can use for better gameplay.
I know the whole gaming industry is basically repetitions of the same damn thing over and over. but turn based is just the most annoying out of any you kill and opponent using the same combo. then when they lvl up you just switch one move for the other im sorry but this is just a terrible idea for gameplay.
It's like yelling and screaming in the streets that you found an awesome hooker who does everything of your sexual fantasies. but when your friends see her it's in fact your grandmother.
Just stupid from the start and old compared to the options you can use for better gameplay.
I for one miss the old turn based games. Final Fantasy 7 is still in my mind the best game ever created, because of its awsome story. Lately the new RPG games I play just don't make the cut. I think the companies are putting real time in just because its easier than making a complex story to bring in the fans. How i miss the olden days of games like FF7, Golden Sun, Legend of Dragoon, and Breath of Fire.