Why so much hate for Turn Based Games?

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CanadianWolverine

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I was looking over some of my games and suddenly I realized there was this really sweet TBC game series sitting right there in front of me!

Any of you ever play Age of Wonders? Dang I loved the TBC in that and it was action packed too!
 

dusparr

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I like turn based games because I never take the normal route - grind grind grind - but instead, I attempt to master the basic nuances of the system and beat the enemies at the lowest possible level I can, for example, in FFVII the lowest level I can beat Sephiroth at was 29-33 with no strong materia AKA copy and knights (I don't remember exactly it has been a few years) and the lowest I have ever beaten Emerald Weapon (without cheap combos) was 52.

I love squeaking through turn based games by killing the least number of enemies possible, and then having to figure out HOW to kill the boss that is 3 times my level at the end of a dungeon, low on items, having half my party dead or dying, and make sure they are all alive at the end so that my entire party gets xp for the boss...

But maybe I am just crazy...
 

Shadow Tyrant

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Allow me to lay out for you why Turn-based strategy games are in no way fun or engaging whatsoever:

"LOL, I HIT YOU, LOL. YOU CAN HIT ME NOW."
"Lol, k."
"OW LOL. MY TURN."
"You missed. LOL."
"LOL Oh noes. You get to hit me now."

It's just not real. Does any actual fighting happen in turns? I don't think so.
But "Oh," you say, "It requires strategy and thinking and--" Yeah. So does actual fighting, except no one stands there and lets you hit them, putting in their complete trust that you're going to let them hit you in return, and not just pummel them into the ground.

I'm not saying they're bad games, I'm just saying it's not captivating. At all.

Also, first post. Hi.
 

gyrader

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May 17, 2008
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I may have missed it, as this is a long thread, but has anyone mentioned the x-com series? I'm, of course, showing my age, but that was a game that demonstrated the strengths of turn-based combat games:

-Requiring good strategy based on squad abilities and given circumstances
-Assessing threats through (admittedly slower) exploration and use of topography
-Removal of the panic factor - I'm not a SWAT Team member nor does every game need to require razor-sharp reflexes when good strategy can suffice - it is a game after all
-Effective implementation of instant reveal gameplay (i.e. you walk around a corner, an alien is there, if you have enough move points you can take a shot, vice versa, etc)
-Increased emphasis on pre-mission load-out and balanced gameplay

Are turn-based games more boring/less exciting? Perhaps; it's a question of temperament, most likely. I think the disappearance of the turn-based game has diminished some of the creative palette for contemporary game designers. Moreso than the extinction of side-scrollers or fixed point-and-shoot genres, as those were more tied to the technology of the time. I admire the Total War series for creating an effective hybrid, but there are (I believe) many opportunities for the re-emergence of turn-based games which can offer richer gameplay immersion than some of the better RTS games.

It does, of course, lie with personal preference and it seems apparent that most gamers are content to have turn-based games mostly absent from current offerings. But I do feel strongly that there are opportunities inherent in re-claiming the turn-based gameplay model that would prove very rewarding to a large segment of gamers. The sacrifices of slow(er) gameplay and less(er) immediacy can easily be overcome by compelling, strategic choices that avail themselves when a player has the luxury of time to make those decisions and isn't forced a hand at all times by, say, a Zerg rush or its equivalent.
 

Hurray Forums

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I can agree that alot of turn based battle systems are very poorly done. However they are some absolutely stunning examples of how it can be just as fun as more fast paced games with a bit more strategy. Steaming pile of fail that Xenosaga 2 was as a game the battle system was in my opinion absolutely incredible. The amount of strategy that went into a lot of the fights was pretty amazing while still keeping it fast paced enough to be interesting. Also the small amount of medikits and ether packs meant you were relying entirely on the skills you had given your characters not just spamming potions anyone can use without a care. The best part of all was the combo system though. Sure it was possible to finish the game with somewhat bad use of combos but the difference between a bad one and a good one was absolutely huge. The amount of tiny details you could manipulate in your favor to get the absolute most out of your characters gave a huge amount of room for improvement as a player. Of course most people that played it just power leveled early on so they could breeze through the game without having to deal with it which really is a shame.
 

shatnershaman

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dusparr said:
Since when are games "real"?
Since there's Americas army game, a mouse that has you feeling what you are holding, and a vest that hits you where you get shot.
 

dusparr

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And yet we are not killed when shot by said vest, so I reiterate, "since when are games real?"
 

ScreamingCrab

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Shadow Tyrant said:
Also, first post. Hi.
Ah, you got pulled in for the same reason I did.

Realism generally isn't the issue. Basically, if you don't like Chess or Poker or any conceptual game in which you're required to wait and think for each person to move (even card games), then fair enough. I don't think Realism applies though. It's the forsight, planning and luring that makes turn based strategy more compelling. I will say that I do like that about fighting games as well, but it feels like once I'm getting good at those kind of games, I'm often just getting good reactions, not good forsight.

Also, turn based games aren't stressful unlike many realtime games.
 

shatnershaman

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dusparr said:
And yet we are not killed when shot by said vest, so I reiterate, "since when are games real?"
Fine "Join the army, its a FPS with awesome graphics and no respawns"
 

shatnershaman

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Darth Mobius said:
KotOR is a GREAT turn-based game, because it is not the usual slow RPG style. The slowest game I like anymore is Chrono Trigger on Active mode... Mainly because the genre has gotten so.... Samey. Played one RPG, played them all...
Mass Effect better though (big change... real time.)
 

gyrader

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CanadianWolverine said:
I was looking over some of my games and suddenly I realized there was this really sweet TBC game series sitting right there in front of me!

Any of you ever play Age of Wonders? Dang I loved the TBC in that and it was action packed too!
Age of Wonders is a perfect example of how immediacy doesn't have to be lost because the game is not in "real time." It provided splendid variety in unit choices and strategy options not always apparent in RTS games. I think the point is that we shouldn't be shackled to "realism" in temporal gameplay. A large part of the enjoyment in gaming is in being able to think about the choices that you make to succeed absent the anxiety that accompanies real-time scenarios. If a developer can create an environment where time is not a factor, they (and by extension, the user) should be afforded that luxury.
 

Shadow Tyrant

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ScreamingCrab said:
Ah, you got pulled in for the same reason I did.
Ha, well. Not really. I've been lurking the site for a while [Mostly for Yahtzee]. So I finally decided to man up and join today, and this looked like an opportune topic to make my first impressions.
 

shatnershaman

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2 Big problems with the realism thing and me.

1. You let them hit you WTF! They let you hit them!

2. When its my turn I can leave it on and they won't advance at all.
 

dusparr

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I actually have to say that in comparison, KotOR was the better of the two for many reasons.

1; the level up systems were very different, but what made KotOR better was that it forced the player to actually think on how they were going to level and what they wanted to do, Mass effects was very simplified in that aspect.

2: in KotOR, the things you did had a notable effect on what happens to each planet, because you have the option to go back to the planets and interact with them after the initial story was done, whilst in mass effect, only like 10 planets had noticeable life on them ad out of those 10, 4 of them were one shot deals, and in the rest you just killed everything on them.

3: Honestly Mass Effects story line was very linear and way to cliched for me.

4: HK-47... Explains itself.
 

shatnershaman

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dusparr said:
I actually have to say that in comparison, KotOR was the better of the two for many reasons.

1; the level up systems were very different, but what made KotOR better was that it forced the player to actually think on how they were going to level and what they wanted to do, Mass effects was very simplified in that aspect.

2: in KotOR, the things you did had a notable effect on what happens to each planet, because you have the option to go back to the planets and interact with them after the initial story was done, whilst in mass effect, only like 10 planets had noticeable life on them ad out of those 10, 4 of them were one shot deals, and in the rest you just killed everything on them.

3: Honestly Mass Effects story line was very linear and way to cliched for me.

4: HK-47... Explains itself.
Rebuttal Mass Effect is better because:

1. Graphics: No contest

2. Audio: Better music much better VO (your guy actually talks)

3. Real Time

4. No uber over powered wands.

5. More places to go.

6. More things to go

7. More blue chicks to fuck

8. Pissed of Fox news

9. Awesome story.
 

dusparr

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shatnershaman said:
Rebuttal Mass Effect is better because:

1. Graphics: No contest

2. Audio: Better music much better VO (your guy actually talks)

3. Real Time

4. No uber over powered wands.

5. More places to go.

6. More thigns to go

7. More blue chicks to fuck

8. Pissed of Fox news

9. Awesome story.
1: Graphics; it is like comparing the original Zelda to "a link to the past"

2: I hated most of the voice acting, so in my opinion that actually made it worse, and HK-47 was better than any, nay all the characters from mass effect in that regard.

3: a third person shooter does not a role playing game make.

4: instead uber-powered assault riffles YAY!!

5: 90% of them were souless husks of planets (as I pointed out)

6: I will assume you ment "more things to do" not really as a I pointed out about the planets.

7: 2 seconds of ass does not a porn movie make.

8: got me here

9: too cliched and basic