Why the "big boobs" "absurd female design" still exists?

[KOMega]

"big boobs" and "absurd female design" still exists because there is nothing really wrong about it.

What is wrong is that there seems to be a lack of the opposite to counter-balance it.

It's like walking into an ice cream shop which only sells chocolate ice cream. It's fine for people who like chocolate ice cream all the time, but its silly to not have any other flavors, and its not good to tell people that they should just not have any ice cream if they don't like chocolate all the time.

So I don't think they want to get rid of chocolate ice cream (getting rid of chocolate ice cream is silly), but it'd be nice to get some other flavors in there. (having only chocolate ice cream is equally silly.)

So far we are seeing some progress what with characters that are supposedly chocolate ice cream, but with a strawberry or vanilla core so that's nice. I'd mention more flavors but I haven't had ice cream in a while. And now I'm hungry.

 

[KOMega]

~scooped and dipped in chocolate~

Some are but not others. Dragon's Crown had a female character with huge boobs and a skimpy outfit and another that didn't. Did it avoid getting into a shitstorm? No.

Edit: To be fair she showed a bit of leg, enough for a taste (which frankly makes me more interested than the big boobed one), that's it though.

It's like someone got a sundae and got upset the sorcerlate scoop mixed in with their vanelfa scoop and wants the whole sundae to be only one flavor, but it's against the stores policy to sell something without chocolate. Also sundaes of only one flavor are not as tasty.
Almost everything attached to dragon's crown got sucked into the shitstorm because they were associated to the sorceress and amazon. even the male characters, due to how the arguments were used.

My last lines before were talking about characters which people like to say are "sexy, but strong/independent/smart/etc too". At first glance these characters are flamebait attracting people to say something is sexist or unrealistic without looking any deeper. And to be fair, while there is nothing wrong with "sexualized" characters I suppose we could use a few more characters that we can point to as examples of "non-sexualized" females to the layman.

I knew we already have a few, but a few more recent entries might help.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Here's the problem broken down. In Japan they still have this archaic attitude towards women as they are really patriarchal. because of this and the Japanese nuance of not complaining, taking responsibility and their need to be part of a club.

If there was a big degree of feminism in japan, what's happened with Dragons Crown wouldn't have happen.

 

[Eve Charm]

Eh Sex sells and the Sexier sells more, Especially to the 18-35 male demographic the games marketed to. and yes, it's highly diverse. what dirty magazine do you think will sell more, The one with all average sized body's or the one that have average bodies and some over blown unrealistic they must have had some surgery bodies, The latter.

Basically you'll never hear " I was going to buy that game, then I saw the character's chest size and no way." But you will get " What the? *head tilt* I might try out this game." Not from the 18-35 male demographic at least.

 

[KOMega]

omnomnomnom icecream.

I was under the impression that in Dragon's Crown you pick a character and then never see the others again. So having the sorceress in it wouldn't affect your game if you didn't want it to.

And your puns and analogy gave me a headache. I hope you're happy.

no, no I'm talking about the general discussion of Dragon's Crown's art. Hardly anyone is talking about the gameplay of the game. Which seems silly to me, but I suppose that means no one has issues with the gameplay. God forbid anyone talks about the gameplay in a game . They just want to talk about art and stuff.

Also, you are experiencing ice cream analogy headache or metaphorical brain freeze. It happens when you consume too much silly ice cream analogies in a short period of time

 

[keniakittykat]

You just proved my point. Thank you. Its a girl sticking her tongue out, get over it.

There was nothing to prove since we all know Escapist is like 75-80% straight-male viewers, being a gaming-oriented site -_-

You know, whenever I see people making assumptions like that I just want to point out that there are a lot more of us on this site than you guys think...
And don't start with that "Oh, look it's a girl that has to announce to the world she's female, how special!" You brought it up. We're not the tiny minority. So stop talking like we are.

 

[Yuuki]

You know, whenever I see people making assumptions like that I just want to point out that there are a lot more of us on this site than you guys think...
And don't start with that "Oh, look it's a girl that has to announce to the world she's female, how special!" You brought it up. We're not the tiny minority. So stop talking like we are.

It wasn't an assumption.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.405809-Poll-Escapist-Gender-Identity-Survey-2013

Counting out the options that made no sense (3rd gender/other) and purely looking at cisgender males & females, 10% are female, 80% are male. The sample size was 2000+ which more than easily makes up for any margins of error (or people voting wrong options for giggles).
You're not a tiny minority by any means, but you are a minority. And this site possibly has one of the largest collections of females I've seen on a gaming forum, I've had the pleasure of reading quite a few things from a female perspective...so take that for whatever it's worth.

If we were to look at the more "specialized" gaming communities out there e.g. FPS, RTS, MOBA, Arcade Fighter, etc communities, I'd probably be willing to bet on something like 15:1 or 20:1 ratios.

Don't worry, I won't start with the "oh look it's a girl announcing she's female" etc because to me you're nothing more than an anonymous blob on the internet, just like everyone else including me >_>

 

[InfernalGrape]

From opposite - why so few slim small breasted women, looking feminine? Because it's easier to make big breast doll, that's it

 

[BernardoOne]

I have a feeling that people tend to concentrate on wrong side of the argument. I don't find big boobs and ass and revealing clothes offending or tasteless. It's just that I'm tired of it. We have too much big boobs and ass and revealing clothes! And I'm actually with you on that one, I'm loving Dragon's Crown and I find DoA5 to be one of the best fighting games out there, but I just want something else. I want more characters like Chie, Yukiko, or Aigis from Persona series, I want more characters like Ellie and Elizabeth.

Erm....

 

[IllumInaTIma]

I have a feeling that people tend to concentrate on wrong side of the argument. I don't find big boobs and ass and revealing clothes offending or tasteless. It's just that I'm tired of it. We have too much big boobs and ass and revealing clothes! And I'm actually with you on that one, I'm loving Dragon's Crown and I find DoA5 to be one of the best fighting games out there, but I just want something else. I want more characters like Chie, Yukiko, or Aigis from Persona series, I want more characters like Ellie and Elizabeth.

Erm....

And? Does that picture or that particular event define their characters? Is that all their character is? Is this what every Persona fan thinks of when talking about Chie, Yukiko, Rise and Naoto? No? Then your picture serves no point.

 

[InfernalGrape]

Yeah, the truth is that in Persona games every important character doesn't only have a "background story", but also facing some conflicts, connected with their perception of world and role in life.

p.s.

but "the least boobs" are Naoto's, right?

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Yeah, the truth is that in Persona games every important character doesn't only have a "background story", but also facing some conflicts, connected with their perception of world and role in life.

p.s.

but "the least boobs" are Naoto's, right?

Supposedly, although Rise's expression and the way she looked at Naoto after seeing results of physical exam makes one wonder :3

 

[BernardoOne]

I have a feeling that people tend to concentrate on wrong side of the argument. I don't find big boobs and ass and revealing clothes offending or tasteless. It's just that I'm tired of it. We have too much big boobs and ass and revealing clothes! And I'm actually with you on that one, I'm loving Dragon's Crown and I find DoA5 to be one of the best fighting games out there, but I just want something else. I want more characters like Chie, Yukiko, or Aigis from Persona series, I want more characters like Ellie and Elizabeth.

Erm....

And? Does that picture or that particular event define their characters? Is that all their character is? Is this what every Persona fan thinks of when talking about Chie, Yukiko, Rise and Naoto? No? Then your picture serves no point.

No, but neither is that the case for the Sorceress in Dragons Crown.

Yeah, the truth is that in Persona games every important character doesn't only have a "background story", but also facing some conflicts, connected with their perception of world and role in life.

p.s.

but "the least boobs" are Naoto's, right?

Supposedly, although Rise's expression and the way she looked at Naoto after seeing results of physical exam makes one wonder :3

I think that the dialogue in the Hotsprings scene and in the physical exam scene pretty much confirms that she actually has the bigger ones(I mean, why would Rise be surprised at all if she had small ones). Persona 4 The Animation also confirms it.


I dont I am even posting this information.

 

[prpshrt]

Sex sells. That's probably the only reason. Sad, but true.

 

[Archer666]

Sex sells and some people have a silly drawing style that sexualizes the girls. I think its funny when we live in a world where Warhammer 40k can be considered pretty progressive with its gender portrayal.

 

[mad825]

So, I have a question for everyone rattling their swords about dragon's crown and doa and whatever latest offender of feminine ideals is. Why does this design still persist?

Because it's integrated into popular mainstream media

[footnote]"censored" for the escapist, Neverending story FTW![/footnote]

This is not only a game problem but also a problem on TV, Newspapers/magazines, for frigging sake; statues and books. which has been going on for a millenia.

Stop making this a problem for games only.

/thread

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

basically what's the male equivalent of T+A curves and a nice smile?

do tell.

Easy. Alistair from Dragon Age.

Now of course I'm not speaking for all of womankind here. There's plenty of ladies out there who hated him, and that's fine, since each of us likes different things. But I think that in general, the reaction to him as a character was positive. He was well written, funny, sarcastic, a bit fuzzy, shy and looked kind of cute. Though it wasn't all about looks either - I know a lot of Alistair fans (on the PC at least) who gave him a new character model more to their tastes. But that didn't stop them loving the character itself.

I remember playing the game, and thinking "at last, something for the ladies to appreciate". I liked him because the lines were very well scripted, and the VA delivered them excellently. I laughed when he and Morrigan bitched at each other. And yeah, he looked nice. Not an insanely muscle-bound male power fantasy, but just... attractive. If he'd been all exaggerated masculinity and leaking testosterone from every available orifice, I don't think he would have worked anywhere near as well.

 

[Ascarus]

so if everyone hates it so much then why do they continue doing it?

why do we have to dissect every little thing to the nth degree? lets just distill the argument down to what it is:

men like boobs. all men, gay, straight, in-between. hell, even women like boobs. regardless, the majority of gamers are male. as a developer it isn't rocket science to appeal to your largest demographic.

end.of.story.