Why the "big boobs" "absurd female design" still exists?

Headdrivehardscrew

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I love Dragon's Crown. I love it so much I'll buy it a couple of times and gift it to friends and family, male and female, brainy and dumb.

I find the run animation of the sorceress and the walk animation of the amazon to be somewhat annoying (downgraded from a week or so of finding it hilarious), but not quite offensive.

After all,

http://cv.uoc.edu/~04_999_01_u07/percepcions/willendorf.jpg

I like sex. I like recreational sex. Big-boobed cartoon characters don't mean a thing to me. Everyone who's played the game will have been rewarded with hi-resolution artwork of sorts, and will have met the somewhat animated females, some captured in varying degrees of stress. Are the motions suggestive? Maybe, if you need a wank or suffer from adolescence or pixelphilia. I think it's all good, nay, better than that: It's awesome and I want more of it, especially since the mechanics are pretty perfect, as well. Best throwback to 1990's arcade gaming of the decade right there, plus a huge, long bow to artists and art of old. Tingles my muffin in all the right places.
 

NoeL

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lapan said:
So a sexual design automatically invalidates even a good personality?
If bigger than average breasts or skin catch your attention so much you can't enjoy a game/only enjoy it because of them i'm sorry for you.

What do you even propose as solution? Should every female from now on be a child or ugly so they can't possibly be objectified by anyone?
"Invalidate" is the wrong word, but it certainly cheapens them. To use a real world analogy, let's say you go to two female doctors - identical twins in fact, both of whom are very attractive. One of them has their blouse done up, is wearing stylish pants, and has modest and professional makeup and hairstyle. She's still an absolute stunner and dresses well, but dresses professionally. The second twin on the other hand has a pair of fake DD boobs hanging out of her top, wears a ridiculously short skirt and speaks in sultry whispers. Even though both may be perfectly competent doctors, are you going to pick the one that looks like a doctor or one that looks like a pornstar playing a doctor? Why?

I would argue most people would prefer the professional looking doctor. It may or not be fair but the sexed-up twin comes across as cheap. Ever see a bad movie where they've cast a ditzy blonde actor as a neuroscientist and think "Couldn't they have gone with something more believable?" They've picked an actor based on sex appeal rather than fitting the role, and it's distracting because what's presented on screen doesn't match your expectations. I find it insulting that they think I'd rather look at a hot girl than a believable neuroscientist, but that's a different issue. It's the same thing in games, where they create an interesting character that I would like to interact with then go "Nope, even though she completely fits the bill she's not interesting enough to stand on her own. Give her some massive cans and we can call it a day." And now suddenly she doesn't look like the thing she's meant to be, but instead a pornstar playing the thing she's meant to be.

Imagine if in Beyond Good & Evil 2 they decide to make Jade look like this [http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/176/5/a/beyond_good_and_evil___jade_by_ganassa-d54tscg.jpg]. She goes from being a believable investigative reporter to a pornstar pretending to be an investigative reporter in a misguided attempt to pander to men. It sounds a bit silly to say a fictional character deserves more respect that that, but come on.

I'm not suggesting there can't be sexy characters in games, but there's no need to make every character a sex symbol - especially when it detracts from the game itself.
 

aba1

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To be honest I don't see why it is offensive to have skimpy outfit on top of that all why people only seem to notice when it is women when guys tend to have just as much in the way of skimpy outfits. Honestly you show me a game with girls in skimpy outfits and the same game will have shirtless guys with chiseled features. So it goes both ways but lets say that doesn't matter it is still bad I have to ask why? It can't be because of unrealistic designs since 99% of games aren't realistic to begin with. It can't be that animated women somehow make women feel bad about their bodies because 99% of the time the games are aimed at a male demographic anyways and that being said the male forms would actually be the big concern. Besides if your daughter is getting depressed because fictional characters look good she lacks perspective and any sorta realistic expectations in life and her looks are the least of her problems. Could the problem be that it promotes skimpy outfits cause that really shouldn't be a problem either why should women feel bad for showing their physic there is nothing wrong with the female or male form and people should be allowed to dress how ever the like.


Maybe my perspective is just odd but if it were up to me people could walk around naked for all I care the human form isn't anything to be embarrassed about nor should it be shunned and even if someone is unrealistically proportioned you shouldn't be modeling your own self image after other people to begin with. People need to grow the hell up and learn to appreciate themselves and not base their own self worth on others and if you can't get over your own hangups then you shouldn't be taking your problems out on the things around you, you should be spending that time working on self improvement either mentally or physically or both.
 

Rebel_Raven

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lapan said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Thing is:
I don't have the money to purchase someone who can.
I don't have an idea, the vision, to offer.
I can't offer a decent computer either.
So, what, exactly am I to do?
You can still buy the games that actually offer good females and advertize them to your friends. This way you show the investors/publishers that there actually is a market for such a thing. In the end that's the only effective way as a consumer.
Yep! it's become quite a hobby of mine, and my SO's. A few friends of mine are doing that, too. You really have to search for games with female protagonsits, though. Not everyone has the same circle of gaming news, so some stuff slips under the radar.

And you're right. The gaming industry cares nothing for no one, but what money they can get. I make it a habit to get the games I enjoy, and games with female protagonists as often as I can, which is rare.
 

Rebel_Raven

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CloudAtlas said:
Rebel_Raven said:
The whole "make your own game!" argument is wearing pretty thin on me the way it's thrown about without consideration of anything but the desire to shut the person it's thrown at up.
That's exactly how it is.

Didn't like Man of Steel? Go make your own Superman movie!
Didn't like the Mass Effect ending? Go make your own Mass Effect 3!
Don't like the prevalnce of military shooters? Go make your own shooter!
Don't like feature X of the PS4? Go make your own console!

Ever heard someone saying that? Me neither.

You can demand anything you want, and it's your goddamn right as (potential) customer to do so, but God forbid someone would like to see a little less bosom.

But you can still vote with your wallet, right? Right? Yes, I can, and yes, I do. But I still have the effing right to criticize what I don't like about some game, and to express my wishes for change, just like everyone else does. Everyone saying that I don't is nothing but a hypocrite.
I definitely can't argue. Unfortunately until people start bonking people over the head saying "If I could do that, I'd have done it" it's not going to stop. Heck, it may never stop, even then.

People don't even really say that about fast food, and frankly you -can- make that for fairly cheap. When was the last time you ever heard:
"You don't like Hardees (or carl's jr depending)? Make your own burgers!!"

Lets not forget Doublefine's kickstarter for a game. Started off less than a million. It's up to 3 million due to underestimating the scope of the game.

Honestly, it's a pretty ignorant (IMHO) way to try and end a conversation keeping in mind the post of mine you quoted. I've had 1 or 2 good souls that actually tried to help me out with info on game jams (the nearest one to me isn't for months, though! X( ) and some lowdown on forums where indie developers collaberate. Not anyone who's actually made it, though. <.< That I know of.

Speaking of people who haven't made it, I wonder what percent of indie games have, compared to the ones that haven't?
Really, it's not much of a solution.

And when was the last time some big name company tried to copy an indie game to make money off of it? Most I know of were just ports made by the game creators.
 

MetalMagpie

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Uhura said:
MetalMagpie said:
I'm being silly. I'm just poking fun at people who say "I would like this female character more if she was wearing more sensible clothes", which is an actual view I've seen on this site!
What's the problem with that view? Visual design/wardrobe is part of characterization.
But it should be a minor part compared to how the character is written and acted. Personality is more important than appearance. There's someone on this thread who claims the character of Cortana in Halo is ruined by the fact she's not wearing any clothes. She's a hologram. She has no anatomical detailing. She doesn't need clothes.

There are also some real hard-core types on this site who say they refuse to buy any game that features a scantily-clad woman on the cover. But I'm not sure I believe them anyway.
 

CloudAtlas

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Rebel_Raven said:
I definitely can't argue.
Since I thought I pretty much agreed with you, I'm glad to hear that. ;)


Unfortunately until people start bonking people over the head saying "If I could do that, I'd have done it" it's not going to stop. Heck, it may never stop, even then.
(...)
Honestly, it's a pretty ignorant (IMHO) way to try and end a conversation keeping in mind the post of mine you quoted. I've had 1 or 2 good souls that actually tried to help me out with info on game jams (the nearest one to me isn't for months, though! X( ) and some lowdown on forums where indie developers collaberate. Not anyone who's actually made it, though. <.< That I know of.
And even if I thought the argument "go make your own game" had any merit in the first place, which I don't, I really wonder how people imagine I should go about this.

Should I quit my job? Should I go back to university to study game design? Even if I did that, thing is, I prefer big, expensive triple-A games. Now even if I had really cool ideas, which I probably won't, and was in any way qualified to lead the necessary big team, which I'm not, I unfortunately can't pull out the 50 million ? or so that I'd need to make such a game out of my arse. And even if I somehow managed to do all that, what if I'm unhappy about my car as well? And my bank? And the food in the restaurant? And the politics of my country? Should I become an engineer, finance expert, chef, and politician as well?

I'm not 16 anymore, and there's other stuff than games I care about as well. "Go make your own games" is simply one of the most idiotic arguments made in this debate, and that's saying something.
 

Bruce

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MetalMagpie said:
Uhura said:
MetalMagpie said:
I'm being silly. I'm just poking fun at people who say "I would like this female character more if she was wearing more sensible clothes", which is an actual view I've seen on this site!
What's the problem with that view? Visual design/wardrobe is part of characterization.
But it should be a minor part compared to how the character is written and acted. Personality is more important than appearance. There's someone on this thread who claims the character of Cortana in Halo is ruined by the fact she's not wearing any clothes. She's a hologram. She has no anatomical detailing. She doesn't need clothes.

There are also some real hard-core types on this site who say they refuse to buy any game that features a scantily-clad woman on the cover. But I'm not sure I believe them anyway.
Not really, when you consider that fashion can act as a rudimentary language. It tends to identify social group, status etc...

So it becomes a bit like a character who starts every sentence with the word 'fuck'. Sure they might be nice, helpful and overall decent characters otherwise, but it isn't really a minor point of characterisation.
 

Uhura

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Aug 30, 2012
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MetalMagpie said:
Uhura said:
MetalMagpie said:
I'm being silly. I'm just poking fun at people who say "I would like this female character more if she was wearing more sensible clothes", which is an actual view I've seen on this site!
What's the problem with that view? Visual design/wardrobe is part of characterization.
But it should be a minor part compared to how the character is written and acted. Personality is more important than appearance. There's someone on this thread who claims the character of Cortana in Halo is ruined by the fact she's not wearing any clothes. She's a hologram. She has no anatomical detailing. She doesn't need clothes.
The visual design/wardrobe is not really something superficial that is just tacked on the character, it's part of the way the character is written. That's why the visual design of a character can very easily have a negative effect on the character's overall characterization and the way the character's personality is viewed by the audience. I mean, why do you think movie studios employ costume designers and make up artists if the appearance of characters didn't really matter that much? Couldn't the hobbits just wear jeans and t-shirts to Mordor?

If you want to write a non-cheesecake game starring a professional soldier you will hamper that characterization if you decide to dress her in high heels and a bikini. That's why I don't really see why the comment "I would like this female character more if she was wearing more sensible clothes" is problematic to you. Making that comment doesn't mean that the person cares more about the appearance than the personality of the character, and it's not really just some vapid throwaway whine about the character's clothes. It usually just means that the person finds the visual design of the character somehow immersion breaking.

MetalMagpie said:
There are also some real hard-core types on this site who say they refuse to buy any game that features a scantily-clad woman on the cover. But I'm not sure I believe them anyway.
Haven't seen anyone say that. And why would that be an issue? Or hardcore?
 

6_Qubed

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I'm just going to pop into this discussion long enough to say that I can't really contribute anything to it one way or another because while I can understand how some female gamers can be offput by the bountiful bevy of bosoms that seem to crop up around the veritable cornucopia of culture that can all be summed up as "Nerd Shit", not just gaming, I myself am a male gamer who was exposed to the likes of Jessica Rabbit and Elvira, Mistress of the Dark at a fairly young age, and it affected me.

Which is not to say I demand a G-cup minimum on the female characters in my games, but neither does it bother me. Unless they're supposed to be minors, because seriously. Ew.

That being said, I'm out.
 

deadish

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nightmare_gorilla said:
apparently the overwhelming public opinion is that having attractive women just for the sake of having attractive women is crap, lazy, sexist, dumb, and probably gives you cancer. so if everyone hates it so much then why do they continue doing it?
If by "overwhelming public opinion" you mean the vocal minority on the Escapist's holier-than-thou armchair analyst forums, then yes.

For the rest of the world, they either don't give a crap or actively enjoy the eye candy.

Games are escapism. Why wouldn't you want to see "pretty pixels" in your fantasy?

Do you fantasize about being a dragon slaying hero who saves ... an obese uncouth princess?
 

KOMega

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"big boobs" and "absurd female design" still exists because there is nothing really wrong about it.

What is wrong is that there seems to be a lack of the opposite to counter-balance it.

It's like walking into an ice cream shop which only sells chocolate ice cream. It's fine for people who like chocolate ice cream all the time, but its silly to not have any other flavors, and its not good to tell people that they should just not have any ice cream if they don't like chocolate all the time.

So I don't think they want to get rid of chocolate ice cream (getting rid of chocolate ice cream is silly), but it'd be nice to get some other flavors in there. (having only chocolate ice cream is equally silly.)

So far we are seeing some progress what with characters that are supposedly chocolate ice cream, but with a strawberry or vanilla core so that's nice. I'd mention more flavors but I haven't had ice cream in a while. And now I'm hungry.
 

KOMega

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Father Time said:
KOMega said:
~scooped and dipped in chocolate~
Some are but not others. Dragon's Crown had a female character with huge boobs and a skimpy outfit and another that didn't. Did it avoid getting into a shitstorm? No.

Edit: To be fair she showed a bit of leg, enough for a taste (which frankly makes me more interested than the big boobed one), that's it though.
It's like someone got a sundae and got upset the sorcerlate scoop mixed in with their vanelfa scoop and wants the whole sundae to be only one flavor, but it's against the stores policy to sell something without chocolate. Also sundaes of only one flavor are not as tasty.
Almost everything attached to dragon's crown got sucked into the shitstorm because they were associated to the sorceress and amazon. even the male characters, due to how the arguments were used.

My last lines before were talking about characters which people like to say are "sexy, but strong/independent/smart/etc too". At first glance these characters are flamebait attracting people to say something is sexist or unrealistic without looking any deeper. And to be fair, while there is nothing wrong with "sexualized" characters I suppose we could use a few more characters that we can point to as examples of "non-sexualized" females to the layman.

I knew we already have a few, but a few more recent entries might help.
 

Kittyhawk

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Here's the problem broken down. In Japan they still have this archaic attitude towards women as they are really patriarchal. because of this and the Japanese nuance of not complaining, taking responsibility and their need to be part of a club.

If there was a big degree of feminism in japan, what's happened with Dragons Crown wouldn't have happen.