Wind Waker Situation Could Happen Again On Wii U

[VondeVon]

I was thinking more along the lines of Twilight Princess - the graphics gained only the most rudimentary of upgrades and so did the plot. The game was empty of the creativity, depth and cleverness that allowed Majora's Mask - despite being made from recycled graphics - feel like a full new game. It was in that way that I felt TP was copy-pasted from games of old. (OoT and LttP, specifically.)

Firstly, the issue is visuals as laid out in the news post. Gameplay is a whole other debate that leads to a long drawn out discussion on the nature of sequels and how original they should be, and a lot of blather about how "of course a sequel will re-use gameplay mechanics of the previous titles".

As for visuals, I'm curious as to what you think Twilight Princess had in common visually with its previous iterations? It really looks little at all like Wind Waker. I would be amazed if anyone could tell that the two games shared a similar engine from merely watching the two.

I never said that I thought Twilight Princess had any visuals in common with Wind Waker. :S I do think it's extremely similar to OoT - smoothed edges and more detailed skins not enough to disguise the old bones (static scenery, stiff or lifeless models, obvious and rough skins peppered throughout the game).

And "the issue is visuals as laid out in the news post"? Eh? The only reason we're talking about visuals is because you said that you felt the only time Nintendo didn't do a "serious graphics overhaul" was for OoT to Majora, to which I replied that Twilight Princess was what I was thinking of when I had made my previous statement (about a potential uninspired clone).

The only reason I mentioned the gameplay was to highlight how Majora's Mask, despite recycled graphics, was not an uninspired clone.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I'd love Nintendo to do a legitimate Wind Waker sequel and not the shit that the DS games were. I doubt that it will happen though, Skyward Sword looks nice though.

 

[Archemetis]

Not that I've ever heard of a case of a LoZ fan being disappointed by a game in the frnachise...

Well, when I ignore the things I heard about Crossbow training anyway...

Then I guess you've never heard of the 3 CD-I games. If so you're lucky.

I guess I am.

Aren't they supposed to be like the American-made cartoon series?

 

[Jumwa]

I never said that I thought Twilight Princess had any visuals in common with Wind Waker. :S I do think it's extremely similar to OoT - smoothed edges and more detailed skins not enough to disguise the old bones (static scenery, stiff or lifeless models, obvious and rough skins peppered throughout the game).

And "the issue is visuals as laid out in the news post"? Eh? The only reason we're talking about visuals is because you said that you felt the only time Nintendo didn't do a "serious graphics overhaul" was for OoT to Majora, to which I replied that Twilight Princess was what I was thinking of when I had made my previous statement (about a potential uninspired clone).

The only reason I mentioned the gameplay was to highlight how Majora's Mask, despite recycled graphics, was not an uninspired clone.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make.

Twilight Princess is by no means one of my favourite Zelda titles. In fact, it's the only one of the series that I started but didn't finish, so it's safe to say it's probably my least liked. But it certainly didn't just re-use previous graphics.

And we're talking about visuals because that's what the article these comments are in response to are about. Did you not read the original article? It's about how the Wii U tech demo might not be how the next Zelda looks visually. That's the topic. You responded to my comment and started talking about gameplay out of nowhere.

 

[Folio]

Yes, "Cel-shaded Link is cute." But it's not immersive. It's not dark.

It doesn't feel like the things that are happening have an impact. It's more a cartoon where the characters can blow eachother up with dynamite and just have gunpowder over their face.

The SNES Zelda (which I know is a favourite among a lot of fans) gave a lot of atmosphere.
The N64 Zelda's (which is my personal favourite and first played Zelda) gave a lot of depth (no pun intended) and took us seriously.

The new Zelda's just want to be artsy for the sake of the limits the consoles bring. This isn't bad. But the lighting and styles do not really give that much to the scene.

...And it looked awful on the DS.

 

[beddo]

I think Wind Waker is the best Zelda game ever. I love the sailing and the exploration. My only problem was that it wasn't open enough, exploration was restricted by how far you had progressed in the game.

Wind Waker looks better than Twilight princess, Cel-shading doesn't rely on textures so it has a strong aesthetic fidelity. I would love a proper Wind Waker sequel, the Phantom Hourglass was rather lack-lustre.

 

[VondeVon]

I never said that I thought Twilight Princess had any visuals in common with Wind Waker. :S I do think it's extremely similar to OoT - smoothed edges and more detailed skins not enough to disguise the old bones (static scenery, stiff or lifeless models, obvious and rough skins peppered throughout the game).

And "the issue is visuals as laid out in the news post"? Eh? The only reason we're talking about visuals is because you said that you felt the only time Nintendo didn't do a "serious graphics overhaul" was for OoT to Majora, to which I replied that Twilight Princess was what I was thinking of when I had made my previous statement (about a potential uninspired clone).

The only reason I mentioned the gameplay was to highlight how Majora's Mask, despite recycled graphics, was not an uninspired clone.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make.

Twilight Princess is by no means one of my favourite Zelda titles. In fact, it's the only one of the series that I started but didn't finish, so it's safe to say it's probably my least liked. But it certainly didn't just re-use previous graphics.

And we're talking about visuals because that's what the article these comments are in response to are about. Did you not read the original article? It's about how the Wii U tech demo might not be how the next Zelda looks visually. That's the topic. You responded to my comment and started talking about gameplay out of nowhere.

I never said TP re-used previous graphics...

Okay, whatever. I'll charitably assume you're not a troll.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

I never understand how people dislike Wind Waker. In my opinion, t is without a doubt the best Zelda game ever made. I hope the next one follows suit.

 

[SereneMidnight]

Why are people still bitching about the cel-shading in WW? I actually enjoyed that title to no end and spent countless nights playing it.

I think Zelda fans are pretty safe either way.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

The thing about cel-shading, it still looks great 10 years later, as opposed to the quickly-deteriorating realism that they were showing off before. I don't particularly care either way. Actually, that is a lie. I like the cel-shading better.

 

[Jacob Haggarty]

... and by god i hope it does. Windwaker, for me, was simply the best (BETTER THAN ALL THE REST) zelda game ever made. Everything from the cutesy art-design, to the story, to the locations... everything just smacked of better quality than anything that has come before or after it. I personally would love the idea of a TRUE sequel to windwaker (not that DS one, which doesn't count, because it was small, and on the DS).

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A COMMUNIST.

...ahem...

 

[Shameless]

Wind Waker was cool, I did like Twilight Princess more though.

 

[Electrogecko]

The first two things that come to mind are "duh" and "good."

Fans don't know what they want. They want change, but the 3 day mechanic, sailing, and wolf sequences (okay, that one was kinda bad) are some of the most complained about (as well as praised) additions to the franchise. Personally, I think the 2000 e3 video looked like crap compared to Windwaker, and seeing Ganondorf do the incredibly cliche come-at-me hand gesture followed by Link throwing his shield made me cringe. Now we're finding out that the WiiU Zelda may surprise us with both art style and controls.

Nintendo has always made art decisions for Zelda that compliment or accentuate the gameplay and overall atmosphere of the title. Hearing that they're not going to lock themselves into a specific visual style so early in development is good news.

 

[Sean951]

The mere mention of WW makes me wish they'd release it and other Zelda titles on Steam, but I know that's an impossible dream. Nintendo has their head too far up their own ass to realize the money potential from that.

Oh well, a man can dream...a man can dream.

Why would a console based company release an exclusive IP on a PC that really couldn't even hope to play it the way it has been designed?

The same reason Nintendo or any company does anything; money.

It was designed to use a controller and were it ever ported to PC all they'd have to do is let players map their own controls to gamepads or keyboards. So I'm going to disagree with you that PC "really couldn't even hope to play it the way it has been designed." I think it would work just fine.

Though like I said it's an impossible dream, and I know it will never ever happen. I stand by the statement that it's because Nintendo has their head up their ass what with the Wii and now WiiU. I know I'm not alone as one of the many who don't own the former and will not buy the latter. Since Nintendo seems to be all about throwing the widest money net they can it seems like it would be a logical step for them to reach out to the fans they've alienated and make money off them. Hell I know I'd be practically launching my money at them if they were to ever put out an HD remake of WW and put out a port to PC as well.

Frankly I say PC because it's hardly (if even) a competitor with them compared to Microsoft and Sony; not because I prefer it. Though again, it's nothing more than the impossible dream of an old guard Nintendo fanboy.

1) Microsoft is the competition
2) Only older games could be redone, Skyward Sword would be impossible
3) The changes in "L" targeting in Wind Waker would make it a tad annoying
4) They would be clashing with the emulation market already in place, which would definitely cut back on profits.

 

[KeyMaster45]

1) Microsoft is the competition

Fair enough, I was just thinking of distribution through Steam without thinking how PC gaming is pretty much ruled by the fact you need Windows to run most software.

2) Only older games could be redone, Skyward Sword would be impossible

I'm not talking about the older games. You sir are putting words in my mouth. I think that might be where we've had a disconnect in understanding in that you think I want the whole Zelda library.

3) The changes in "L" targeting in Wind Waker would make it a tad annoying

This is just flat wrong. The number of buttons on a gamecube controller are no different than that of any other. They're simply arranged in different spots. L targeting could simply be mapped to the left trigger of any gamepad. Control scheme for WW in a hypothetical PC port is a non-factor; it's simply not a problem at all that would have to be overcome.

4) They would be clashing with the emulation market already in place, which would definitely cut back on profits.

Emulator market? Is that what they're calling it? Last I checked emulators were free and at the best of times sketchy in their quality/reliability. It's boils down to the same circular argument we hear with internet piracy. The pirates will continue to pirate regardless while the majority of people will continue to pay money. Emulators are not a competition to Nintendo, they are at best a legal nuisance for Nintendo to spin their wheels trying to deal with.

Again though I keep saying. This is an impossible dream and I understand that very well. So I don't know; stop trying to crush it? I don't care about the practicalities of it.

 

[Sean951]

1) Microsoft is the competition

Fair enough, I was just thinking of distribution through Steam without thinking how PC gaming is pretty much ruled by the fact you need Windows to run most software.

2) Only older games could be redone, Skyward Sword would be impossible

I'm not talking about the older games. You sir are putting words in my mouth. I think that might be where we've had a disconnect in understanding in that you think I want the whole Zelda library.

3) The changes in "L" targeting in Wind Waker would make it a tad annoying

This is just flat wrong. The number of buttons on a gamecube controller are no different than that of any other. They're simply arranged in different spots. L targeting could simply be mapped to the left trigger of any gamepad. Control scheme for WW in a hypothetical PC port is a non-factor; it's simply not a problem at all that would have to be overcome.

4) They would be clashing with the emulation market already in place, which would definitely cut back on profits.

Emulator market? Is that what they're calling it? Last I checked emulators were free and at the best of times sketchy in their quality/reliability. It's boils down to the same circular argument we hear with internet piracy. The pirates will continue to pirate regardless while the majority of people will continue to pay money. Emulators are not a competition to Nintendo, they are at best a legal nuisance for Nintendo to spin their wheels trying to deal with.

Again though I keep saying. This is an impossible dream and I understand that very well. So I don't know; stop trying to crush it? I don't care about the practicalities of it.

I know you aren't talking directly about older games, but those are the only ones that could be redone without hurting the console version of future releases (assuming Nintendo follows their recent trends)

My mistake about the controller, I was thinking about trying to play with a keyboard.

I am being generous by calling it a "market" since the best ones do require you pay, though I am fairly certain that they are illegal.

I'm not trying to crush it, but you brought it up on a forum topic about Zelda games and I am discussing it.

 

[Wing Dairu]

Big overreaction, Tom. He never said ANYTHING to the effect of "we're doing cel shading again", he just said "don't trust the demo, we might take it in a different direction instead". For all we know, they could be planning a squigglevision legend of zelda.
Way to fearmonger.

 

[Bernzz]

If this means another game like Wind Waker, then count me in holy shit yes.

I adored that game. I still go back and play through it occasionally. In my opinion, best Zelda game ever.

Clarification: I love OoT, don't get me wrong, but I had more fun with WW. And I never played Majora's Mask till sometime last year on the GameCube, and I dunno...I couldn't do it. I lost all interest right at the beginning. It just didn't hold me.

 

[RoyalSorceress]

Not that I've ever heard of a case of a LoZ fan being disappointed by a game in the frnachise...

Well, when I ignore the things I heard about Crossbow training anyway...

Then I guess you've never heard of the 3 CD-I games. If so you're lucky.

I guess I am.

Aren't they supposed to be like the American-made cartoon series?

Actually, they're WORSE than the cartoon if you can believe it. But rather than tell you about them look up "the Angry Video Game Nerd," here's his channel on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesNintendoNerd , and made a three part video about the Zelda CD-I games. He also make really funny videos about horrible old games.

 

[MPerce]

EDIT: Error in posting. Sorry, all.