World Bank Examines Benefits of Gold Farming

[Reallink]

I guess ignoring the moral implications (not that they are to be ignored, but just for my argument), this is a pretty fair point. Other countries send money to gold farmers, gold farmers use money to buy food etc, the people selling food use said money to buy other products from retailers within the country etc etc. Assuming the money stays in the country, it does stimulate the economy really effectively. Otherwise, not great.

Basically, if the money is distributed appropriately it helps the country. Of course there is then the issue of underpaid workers, but this can kind of be helped with improved regulation etc.

In summary, its a good starting point, and then the country has to act responsibly to make sure the living standards also rise

 

[Joshimodo]

Are we really suggesting that gold farming is as morally bankrupt as slavery, is that a thing, really?

Are you suggesting that being forced to sit in cramped conditions doing repetitive tasks for very low pay, for a high end product, is not slavery?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/mar/05/virtual-world-china?intcmp=239

30p an hour sound like fun? And this is in a developed country.

30p an hour is pretty solid for those kinds of jobs. China is jam-packed with similar situations, but with more work and less pay. I've come in contact with people who work 18 hour shifts earning 12p~ an hour doing wiring/circuitry on televisions. It's not slavery, it's a job.



Also, how long before a major MMO dev reads this and wonders how much of that 3 billion can come their way. Well, aside from EVE and their subscription thing.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You're not forced to. If you don't like clicking on a computer for hours on end for 30p a day, go work at the nike factory where you actually work.

30p an hour is pretty solid for those kinds of jobs. China is jam-packed with similar situations, but with more work and less pay. I've come in contact with people who work 18 hour shifts earning 12p~ an hour doing wiring/circuitry on televisions. It's not slavery, it's a job.

China is still a first world country. Maybe second. Can you imagine what a similar situation would be in a third world country?

Also, how long before a major MMO dev reads this and wonders how much of that 3 billion can come their way. Well, aside from EVE and their subscription thing.

Korea and Starcraft?

Put it another way, if gold farming is a valid economy; what are SOE, Blizzard, Cryptic doing by banning gold-farmers?

 

[Vrach]

A World Bank report says gold farming, power-leveling and other such services generated roughly $3 billion for poor nations in 2009 and could actually prove to be very beneficial to local and developing economies.

So's Slavery, Organ Legging and Blood Diamonds.

For very similar reasons.

Because people are harmed by gold farming.

That's honestly the stupidest comparison I've seen made. I don't mean it as an insult, just a statement of fact. I'm not a fan of gold farming nor do I support it in any shape or form, but that comparison swims like a rock.

 

[Syntax Error]

I know stories of someone who owns an internet cafe who was able to buy a car through RMT (Real Money Trade). My cousin was able to sell PHP 30,000 (USD 714 using current exchange rates) worth of items in one transaction a few years back. I also had some of my guildmates from my time playing that paid out-of-school youth from the streets to play their characters while they went about with their studies/work/other stuff (they log in their characters first. Their money goes down the drain if for some reason they get disconnected).

It's quite rampant here in the Philippines. Note that we don't play WoW here (they are only a very small minority here). Most games are your standard Korean grindfests that follow the "Free to Play" model (playtime is free, but if you want a boost, you go to the Special shop for consumables, weapons, armor, etc. Some items even include stuff that don't offer any in-game advantage). Goods include rare equipment, in-game currency and the pre-paid cards that you use to get the separate currency used in the Special shop.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Because people are harmed by gold farming.

Because American Prisoners are harmed by being forced to create cheap goods. Because violations of human rights are only about harming.
Remind me, how many gold farmers do you know?

That's honestly the stupidest comparison I've seen made.

You haven't been on the internet long, have you?

 

[samsonguy920]

How many of those gold farmers say, 'Thanks for your money!' with a Trojan to hijack your account and look for any personal info they can use to steal your identity?
This is an unregulated and unscrupulous business which not that many down-trodden people are benefiting from. And those trying to be 'ethical' about it with legitimate actions are only fooling themselves.
People ask where the harm is. Well, besides what I have already pointed out, how many of these gold farmers are actually using this to launder drug and gun money? This is not fiction, folks, and practically saying this is a good thing for economies is irresponsible of the World Bank. The same World Bank that has done NOTHING to help Greece out of its financial nightmare.

A World Bank report says gold farming, power-leveling and other such services generated roughly $3 billion for poor nations in 2009 and could actually prove to be very beneficial to local and developing economies.

So is Slavery, Organ Legging, and Blood Diamonds.

For very similar reasons.

Forgot Gun and Drug sales.

One major problem with power-levelers, gold farmers, and other illegitimate game services, is the effect they do have in-game. The constant spam disrupts legitimate conversations ingame. People using power-levelers weaken their ability to contribute to groups, disrupting the gameplay for others. And potential account theft costs both users and companies a lot of money and time.
Eventually people get tired of dealing with this, and they quit the game, which in turn is lost revenue for the MMO company. Eventually the only people playing the MMO are gold farmers and power-levelers, who will only follow where the legit players go, and then the MMO is defunct and shut down.
So what's the big deal about this? A lot.
That is not good business.

 

[samsonguy920]

I know stories of someone who owns an internet cafe who was able to buy a car through RMT (Real Money Trade). My cousin was able to sell PHP 30,000 (USD 714 using current exchange rates) worth of items in one transaction a few years back. I also had some of my guildmates from my time playing that paid out-of-school youth from the streets to play their characters while they went about with their studies/work/other stuff (they log in their characters first. Their money goes down the drain if for some reason they get disconnected).

This is a sure sign that feudalism is alive and well today. Scary.

 

[KalosCast]

It also boosts first-world economies because MMO developers have to hire an army of customer service reps who's sole job is to investigate that the compromised account reports are legit and then restore the player's items.

It also benefits the people maintaining the servers that the phishing sites are on, as well as the factories where the computers are made to let them do this.

Also claiming that this is a beneficial economy is fucking retarded. Seriously, World Bank? Your entire staff should be forced onto administrative leave until you force your own heads out of your asses.

 

[Syntax Error]

I know stories of someone who owns an internet cafe who was able to buy a car through RMT (Real Money Trade). My cousin was able to sell PHP 30,000 (USD 714 using current exchange rates) worth of items in one transaction a few years back. I also had some of my guildmates from my time playing that paid out-of-school youth from the streets to play their characters while they went about with their studies/work/other stuff (they log in their characters first. Their money goes down the drain if for some reason they get disconnected).

This is a sure sign that feudalism is alive and well today. Scary.

When I first heard his story about the 30k, my jaw dropped to the floor. My first reaction was: "Who in their right mind will buy virtual items for that amount?!?" I've quit from playing MMO's for I think 2 years now, so I don't know exactly if the situation is the same.

And to clarify: We don't have sweatshop virtual item farms here (not that I know of, anyway). RMT sellers here are just "enterprising" individuals who have way too much time in their hands.

 

[Vrach]

Because people are harmed by gold farming.

Because American Prisoners are harmed by being forced to create cheap goods. Because violations of human rights are only about harming.
Remind me, how many gold farmers do you know?

That's honestly the stupidest comparison I've seen made.

You haven't been on the internet long, have you?

I don't happen to know many gold farmers, but I know that on the whole it's not exactly comparable to Blood Diamond mining, selling someone's organs and slavery. And I've been around for a dozen years or so, several of them spent on WoW and consequently Blizzard's forums. Your comparison still holds it's spot :\

 

[Aethren]

I don't particularly have anything against gold farmers or power-levelers, as long as there's actually someone else on the other side of the computer. Bots, spamming and hacking, however, are just bad for business.

 

[hansari]

A World Bank report says gold farming, power-leveling and other such services generated roughly $3 billion for poor nations in 2009 and could actually prove to be very beneficial to local and developing economies.

So's Slavery, Organ Legging and Blood Diamonds.

For very similar reasons.

"The working conditions are hard. We don't get weekends off and I only have one day free a month.But compared to other jobs it is good. I have no other skills and I enjoy playing sometimes."

Context is everything. Click here to see some sensible comparisons... [http://www.globallabourrights.org/]

And FYI, China is still developing. Its developed areas only make up about like 25%+ of the entire country. I can show you plenty of really nice developed areas of Pakistan...

 

[SenseOfTumour]

No, it's not up there with the big crimes, I agree, however, if there was suddenly a way to make $5 by hacking into your console and wiping all the saves off your hard drive, I imagine you'd have a problem with them 'earning' that $5 too?

I know when I had my playstation stolen, it was the loss of my memory cards and the hundreds of hours of saves I lost that was probably the worst part. With MMOs you're usually talking about even more playtime and characters you're invested in.

Just because things aren't 'real' doesn't mean they have no value. Ask anyone who's had a laptop stolen with photos stored on it.

I actually however don't really mind those who legitimately 'farm' gold and sell it, tho I wouldn't personally pay for it, as gold is so easy to get, and the high price items I don't really care about.

 

[The Apothecarry]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... I can hire someone to play games for me?

 

[deleted_by_strongbad]

So I don't see what the big deal against RMT is from the perspective of the consumer. The way I see it is that at its core it is just another type of service being offered like people who will mow your lawn or clean your house. Granted, like ANY OTHER service there will be sweat shops, criminal organizations, and scams that infest this market, but it isn't going to be every case. So assuming you could find a service where everything is being done ethically and above board, I see this as an inventive new marketplace.

I understand, many people will be against it because the MMO developers will say it is bad, but I don't see how it is harming them other than allowing people willing to pay for the extra help might not get stuck in the same rut of toil which may keep some playing. Having that extra hand might also keep some in the game who wouldn't have the patience for that nonsense, so it might just balance out. Granted no company is happy to see some completely independent third party make money off their product without the proper kickbacks, I mean royalties and such, but I think that's pretty much what this boils down to.

Also as far as the comparison with blood diamonds, slavery, drugs, guns, etc: the money gained from those industries generally DOESN'T go to the country of origin, it goes to the corporations/cartels who are facilitating the international movement and a small chunk to the individuals/small organizations who are running the point of origin. Like in slavery, the money went to the slave traders and shipping companies, local African warlords were given small, but big enough to be tempting, amounts of weapons/food/trinkets in exchange for slaves. This is similar to the trend of other black market industries and WAAAAY different from the analysis of the World Bank on gold farming. It almost implies a lack of criminal and corporate extortion behind the RMT services.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Forgot Gun and Drug sales.

I didn't want to labour the point. Especially as some people didn't seem to have grasped it.

I don't happen to know many gold farmers, but I know that on the whole it's not exactly comparable to Blood Diamond mining, selling someone's organs and slavery. And I've been around for a dozen years or so, several of them spent on WoW and consequently Blizzard's forums. Your comparison still holds it's spot :\

Now you're just being insulting. Organ transplant and Slavery are conducted in first world countries without harm, but paying a criminal organisation to get people to do jobs you find distasteful is not a valid way to prop up third world countries.

We can run through the economic problem inherent as well if you wish, but morally it stinks as bad as the others.

If you wish to see it as "a nice little earner" for those chosen, then fine, but take a look at Extra Credits "Metrics" and "Gamification", and see where this track would ultimately lead us.

Context is everything. Click here to see some sensible comparisons... [http://www.globallabourrights.org/]

Like this one? [http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0034]
Remind me, are Microsoft good or evil for using Slavery to make their peripherals?

Is this a good thing to be introducing to the country?

Is Gold Farming better than this purely because their slaves live better lives than Microsoft's slaves?

Should we, perhaps, have a tower of differing ranks of slaves so that they can feel superior?

OR...could their respective Governments shut down the sweat-shops and give them something they want to do, something legal, something that didn't use Western laziness to prop up Eastern criminals?

You know, just while "everyone's" calling me a fool for getting upset over this.

 

[KalosCast]

So assuming you could find a service where everything is being done ethically and above board, I see this as an inventive new marketplace.

There are no ethical above-board services. They're either botters who take away from people who are actually playing the game by grabbing up limited resources... Or they're phishers who are outright robbing people who are actually playing the game.

The only people who truly benefit from gold farming are gold farmers.

 

[Idocreating]

3 Billion for Poor Nations. Not Poor People in Poor Nations.

 

[Bobbity]

I think I'd be willing to put up with gold farmers and the spoiled brats who buy from them if it provides a valid source of work and income for people in third world countries.