I think you've missunderstood, that 11.1 million is the active number of accounts paying the monthly sub, if they counted free accounts and inactive accounts they'd probably be in the hundred of millions.Vrach said:So they're down to 11.1 million, which is actually the number counting free accounts (you know, those things people don't pay for?). I wonder how far they're down for real. Cause this ain't LOTRO where those free accounts are paying microtransactions or some shit like that, it's just a trial account.
Good to see it losing it's stranglehold - it'll make way for the new and better MMOs that are coming in '11/'12
World of Warcraft Subscriptions Continue to Slide
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Hell, it's not just the casuals who find it hard to get into End-game raiding content.Cormitt said:
I've been at the level cap for all the expansions so far and throughout all of it the only raiding instance I've been to is Karazhan, which was in TBC.
I've been playing for a little over 5 years now, I consider myself to be a competent player at the very least, Hell, my best friend was the best tank on my server for a time and he's always giving me advice.
But nowadays I find it slightly intimidating to even consider trying to get into raids, even with the ability to PuG them now.
Simply because no one wants to raid with an 'inexperienced' player.
Since I haven't seen any raid content since Karazhan, no one will take me to a raid, despite the fact that without taking me to them, how will I get experience?
If I PuG, people will ask for achievements to prove I know what I'm doing, which I won't have, because I don't. Because no one has let me find out.
To come back to the topic of the thread, maybe Blizzard should consider these people who're maybe not as social or able to get into the content as a means of keeping their numbers?
Personally, my lack of involvement in the end-game is the reason I stick solely to levelling.
And I can't seem to think of any other reason for my dwindling involvement besides The achievement system doing it's best to cock-block me from me from the raids.
I think WoW has become a classic case of being over-streamlined. There's no adventure in it anymore. You get to 85, chain run instances at as fast a rate as possible (and whine on the forums if that dips to less than 5 per hour because any of the fights are actually hard) to build up an abstract currency, and use that currency to buy gear. Professions are something that you grind up after you hit 85 to get some small bonus to something.Xanthious said:
Oh, and raiding? Mostly a waste of time. You're better off waiting until shortly before the next expansion comes out, when the almost-best gear can be bought after a few days of instance running, and facerolling NerfedWing.
The game has just become too transparent. There's no immersion anymore, and I think the expansion-pack reset button is starting to make things feel pointless.
Funny thing is, the 1-60 content is now the best in the game.
-Professions are actually useful to some degree while leveling, instead of it taking until you reach 85 to make something that would have been useful at level 81.
-The story is actually grounded and interesting. There's a feel of cohesion to the game world, as opposed to zones that feel like they?re on a completely different planet than the one right next to it.
-Moves you through the game world quickly.
I won't chime in here with much but.. I can't help but think we're beginning to see the hole in the entire MMORPG model, here. As long as the content isn't dynamic and emergent, a game will inevitably, eventually, sink.
A truly dynamic and emergent game probably isn't within the grasp of today's technology, and even if it were, the players themselves likely aren't ready for the sort of gameplay that would mean - namely, rather a lot less endlessly killing things and a good deal more just experiencing a world.
But still.. hm.
A truly dynamic and emergent game probably isn't within the grasp of today's technology, and even if it were, the players themselves likely aren't ready for the sort of gameplay that would mean - namely, rather a lot less endlessly killing things and a good deal more just experiencing a world.
But still.. hm.
Disclaimer: This opinion is coming from a WoW Casual (Don't raid anymore) Vet from all the way back from Vanilla Open Beta, up till hitting 85 in Cata. I've been well versed in WoW Lore ever since WC2 and the novels. Since then, I've moved on to RIFT and EVE while awaiting SWTOR.
Honestly, for me, it's just that I'm sick of WoW. It's not that I am tired of the game mechanics either, it's Blizzard, the Azerothian setting, the graphics style. The core mechanics of the game (hotkey skills, talent system, mounts, auction house, crafting system, ect) are all fine and good, but it's the aesthetics and 'theme' of the game that has worn me down. In part, that is why I play Rift right now. The mechanics are essentially the same, but it has enough of a unique spin on the world, atmosphere, and class system that I am truly enjoying the hell out of it.
Blizzard's biggest thing was that WoW was polished enough to keep it's players in the game, while also releasing addons and content updates at enough intervals that they screwed with other game's launch cycles. Now, after 6-7 years, people like me are just getting tired of Azeroth and are either ducking out of the genre altogether, or are looking for the next best thing to fit the mold.
That said, I don't think you'll be seeing WoW shutting down their servers anytime soon. They are still at 11.1 Million accounts (how many are paying, we don't know, but still), a figure that ANY other game would give both of their nuts to come close to reaching. Unless Blizzard takes some very drastic steps to anger their existing player-base, that number will remain high for quite a long time. What it does give, however, is a chance for other games like SWTOR and GW2 to launch and try and retain their initial player-base. As far as I know, Rift has actually held on rather well to their player base, especially for being the definition of a 'WoW-Clone'.
Honestly, for me, it's just that I'm sick of WoW. It's not that I am tired of the game mechanics either, it's Blizzard, the Azerothian setting, the graphics style. The core mechanics of the game (hotkey skills, talent system, mounts, auction house, crafting system, ect) are all fine and good, but it's the aesthetics and 'theme' of the game that has worn me down. In part, that is why I play Rift right now. The mechanics are essentially the same, but it has enough of a unique spin on the world, atmosphere, and class system that I am truly enjoying the hell out of it.
Blizzard's biggest thing was that WoW was polished enough to keep it's players in the game, while also releasing addons and content updates at enough intervals that they screwed with other game's launch cycles. Now, after 6-7 years, people like me are just getting tired of Azeroth and are either ducking out of the genre altogether, or are looking for the next best thing to fit the mold.
That said, I don't think you'll be seeing WoW shutting down their servers anytime soon. They are still at 11.1 Million accounts (how many are paying, we don't know, but still), a figure that ANY other game would give both of their nuts to come close to reaching. Unless Blizzard takes some very drastic steps to anger their existing player-base, that number will remain high for quite a long time. What it does give, however, is a chance for other games like SWTOR and GW2 to launch and try and retain their initial player-base. As far as I know, Rift has actually held on rather well to their player base, especially for being the definition of a 'WoW-Clone'.
I typically quit for a few months and go back when the shine comes back. I've been playing since vanilla came to the shelves and thus I've seen it all and done it all. All I really have left is re-rolling old classes and trying something new with them.
It does however make me glad to see that major companies do respond to mass negativity in the form of people quitting, making them actually modify it to what the people want and not what the people are told they want.
Now if only we could put an embargo in place on Activision and EA and who knows! Maybe Acti would make a COD game worth playing and EA would just make a game worth playing, preferably one that isn't more bug than software and isn't half finished.
A man can dream can't he?
oh and if Blizzard wants to fix this, try adding raid content a group of new players can't steam roll in less than an hour. That was Wotlk's weakness and to some extent it translated into Cata. Yes, yes we're all very impressed by the tanks with 200k hp who can take a hit of 40k and walk it off but that doesn't mean anything.
Catas tanks with 200k are just vanilla's tanks with 10k
The numbers got bigger but the ratio of dmg taken remains exactly the same.
Too bad I am one of a handful of people who realized this.
It does however make me glad to see that major companies do respond to mass negativity in the form of people quitting, making them actually modify it to what the people want and not what the people are told they want.
Now if only we could put an embargo in place on Activision and EA and who knows! Maybe Acti would make a COD game worth playing and EA would just make a game worth playing, preferably one that isn't more bug than software and isn't half finished.
A man can dream can't he?
oh and if Blizzard wants to fix this, try adding raid content a group of new players can't steam roll in less than an hour. That was Wotlk's weakness and to some extent it translated into Cata. Yes, yes we're all very impressed by the tanks with 200k hp who can take a hit of 40k and walk it off but that doesn't mean anything.
Catas tanks with 200k are just vanilla's tanks with 10k
The numbers got bigger but the ratio of dmg taken remains exactly the same.
Too bad I am one of a handful of people who realized this.
Blizzard lost people because they made content too easy.
And before you go on, Im not an elitist - I beleive the game was still hard. Until they added a new tier of raiding, accessability to higher level gear, AND ON TOP OF THAT, nerfed all previous encounters (regular and Heroic) BY ATLEAST 20%.
Overkill. Sucked the PvE challenge right outta the game.
The only thing keeping me paying my subscription is leveling a new character for PvP. Thats it.
They wanna bring people back? STOP BEATING EVERYTHING WITH THE NERF STICK.
Uber difficulty is annoying. So is pissing through content when you can deliberately ignore the mechanics.
And before you go on, Im not an elitist - I beleive the game was still hard. Until they added a new tier of raiding, accessability to higher level gear, AND ON TOP OF THAT, nerfed all previous encounters (regular and Heroic) BY ATLEAST 20%.
Overkill. Sucked the PvE challenge right outta the game.
The only thing keeping me paying my subscription is leveling a new character for PvP. Thats it.
They wanna bring people back? STOP BEATING EVERYTHING WITH THE NERF STICK.
Uber difficulty is annoying. So is pissing through content when you can deliberately ignore the mechanics.
Dalaran is gorgeous - that picture, not so much.
Anyway, the first two patches of Cataclysm have had nothing but recycled bosses and content. The boss mechanics are all new of course, but it's simply hard to get excited about beating Zul'Aman...again, and Zul'Gurub...again, and killing Ragnaros...for the second or third time.
And the fact is, yes, Cataclysm just didn't have a very long shelf life. It didn't have half the atmosphere of WotLK, and the updated Horde and Allilance capitals are quickly taken for granted.
Anyway, the first two patches of Cataclysm have had nothing but recycled bosses and content. The boss mechanics are all new of course, but it's simply hard to get excited about beating Zul'Aman...again, and Zul'Gurub...again, and killing Ragnaros...for the second or third time.
And the fact is, yes, Cataclysm just didn't have a very long shelf life. It didn't have half the atmosphere of WotLK, and the updated Horde and Allilance capitals are quickly taken for granted.
WoW is still the top dog, and all mmos out there are still running on the same basic gameplay principles. But after so many years, it's normal for it's fan base to die down. Same old grind, fairly uninteresting content (WotLK was epic, and every expansion brought us closer to basically completing the story chain that started with warcraft 1. Now we're playing in the expanded universe that, while interesting, just doesn't have the same weight), people getting burned out on the game, people wanting something now after so many years, economic pressures. It's all normal. It will steadily and slowly decline over the years and I don't think it will reach it's intended number of expansions. But it still has many a good year ahead of it, and I for one am looking forward to any game that claims it has even the least of a chance to dethrone it.
As for dethroning WoW... It's not going to be Rift. Or even SW:TOR. It's going to be Titan.
As for dethroning WoW... It's not going to be Rift. Or even SW:TOR. It's going to be Titan.
I will agree that if there is ONE reason WoW is failing it's this.Uber Waddles said:
The freaking LICH KING (the "Final boss" of WotLK") is a petty 10-man encounter. If this keeps up the "final boss" of Cataclysm will probably be some 5-man quest who commits suicide upon seeing you.
What the fuck happened to the days where a raid took 40 people, where the slightest slip-up meant death and a purple item name actually signified something?
During Wotlk the hardcore complained omg wow is wayyyy toooo easy.
So they made cata harder so the Casual pretty much can't run a herioc without someone complaining they are dieing. Hardcore people dont want to run dugeons to carry "fail dps"
5 mans use to be my favorite part of wow. Not in cata. Theres only 2 85 reg 5 mans and they are pretty boring.
So without 5 mans the casual is left with dailys(they take about 30 mins )and/or pvp.
They made archeology but thats a bust 4 hours of work to get something that turns you to amber for 5 minutes.
The new raid system killed 25 man raiding.(same loot and lock out for 25 and 10 man) I also killed my guild which split into 10 man raiding guilds.
with the new content theres a lot of recycling older content . Two of the "new" heriocs are recycled old 5 mans. the 4.1 content took two way old raids everyones done before and made them 5 man heriocs. There was no NEW content.
I do like 4.2 so far but they cut out a raid they promised.(the water one)I'm alreayd 6/7 in 2 weeks after in came out.
I still play because I really like raiding but I've had several casual friends not play for a long time.
The hardcore people who take this GAME way to serious is killing it and taking the FUN away.
If we were nicer to casuals they might stay but this thread as an example the wow community is not a nice place.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548995815
So they made cata harder so the Casual pretty much can't run a herioc without someone complaining they are dieing. Hardcore people dont want to run dugeons to carry "fail dps"
5 mans use to be my favorite part of wow. Not in cata. Theres only 2 85 reg 5 mans and they are pretty boring.
So without 5 mans the casual is left with dailys(they take about 30 mins )and/or pvp.
They made archeology but thats a bust 4 hours of work to get something that turns you to amber for 5 minutes.
The new raid system killed 25 man raiding.(same loot and lock out for 25 and 10 man) I also killed my guild which split into 10 man raiding guilds.
with the new content theres a lot of recycling older content . Two of the "new" heriocs are recycled old 5 mans. the 4.1 content took two way old raids everyones done before and made them 5 man heriocs. There was no NEW content.
I do like 4.2 so far but they cut out a raid they promised.(the water one)I'm alreayd 6/7 in 2 weeks after in came out.
I still play because I really like raiding but I've had several casual friends not play for a long time.
The hardcore people who take this GAME way to serious is killing it and taking the FUN away.
If we were nicer to casuals they might stay but this thread as an example the wow community is not a nice place.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548995815
Wow everyone acts like wow is dead? It still has 2/3 of the MMORPG market. It's not that the game is "old" its that some of the older players are moving on to other things. I much as anyone loves a franchise, nobody can stay in it forever and not want to try something else. Call it Blizzard's fault but truthfully its that you can't keep people in a game forever.
Now this is Blizzard's current dilemma. Despite being one of the easiest MMO's to get into Blizzard has grabbed up its entire player base. So Bliz needs to find new groups of people to sell the game to (like casual gamers, and foreign countries). Second is what I said first. Some players have been with the game for years and want to move on to try new games.
WoW is probably still the best MMORPG out there and will be on top for another 5 years at least. but in terms of the games new player base, and players leaving the game. WoW has done about everything a game like it could EVER DO. So I'd call WoW the pinnacle of performance any MMORPG could ever hope to do.
Now this is Blizzard's current dilemma. Despite being one of the easiest MMO's to get into Blizzard has grabbed up its entire player base. So Bliz needs to find new groups of people to sell the game to (like casual gamers, and foreign countries). Second is what I said first. Some players have been with the game for years and want to move on to try new games.
WoW is probably still the best MMORPG out there and will be on top for another 5 years at least. but in terms of the games new player base, and players leaving the game. WoW has done about everything a game like it could EVER DO. So I'd call WoW the pinnacle of performance any MMORPG could ever hope to do.
Well I left because it was "get gear score or die" that's never any fun. I joined late WotLK 'cause a couple of guys in my class persuaded me to, got up to 80 2 weeks before Caty, played along, 85 after the first 4 days, starting to fall slightly behind, and fell farther and farther behind, and got fed up, because I couldn't be bothered waiting 30 mins to get a dungeon to get taking gear so I would only need to wait 3 minutes, to get into the dungeons to get higher level gear,, to get into a higher tier of dungeons to get higher level gear for low level raids.... blah blah blah.... point is, it was grind fest after grind fest after grindfest, and I just got bored.
Somewhat more ontopic, wouldn't worry, it's gonna be about for a good while longer, and I don't want WoW killed, I want it there, so I know where the bulk of hardcore no-lifer's are. I want to play games for fun, and that's hard to do with them breathing down your neck making you feel inferior for having other dedications.
Somewhat more ontopic, wouldn't worry, it's gonna be about for a good while longer, and I don't want WoW killed, I want it there, so I know where the bulk of hardcore no-lifer's are. I want to play games for fun, and that's hard to do with them breathing down your neck making you feel inferior for having other dedications.
WoW's losing subscribers because, to quote Yahtzee: "things stop being funny the longer you live with them." The game's been going strong for 7 years, but despite three expansions, it's still always been the same game, and after 7 years people will probably start to burn out on it.
Agreed so much.Archemetis said:
Honestly I just cannot bear the grind anymore.
It takes too long to level. I know its fairly easy compared to other games but its still the same thing over and over. And since all the interesting gear and stats don't start till way too high level I just kind of lost interest in my new Worgen. And since the game doesn't even really 'begin' till the level grind is over.. eh.
Not sure how to fix that though.. they can't exactly throw levels at you, but it would be nice to get an XP buff for new characters the more characters you have up to that characters level. (i.e yo have 1 85 one 80 and 3 30's, you get 50% bonus xp to 31, then 20% bonus xp till 80, then 10% bonus xp till 85)
I think the main annoyance at leveling was the solo quest grind. I know you can dungeon to level, but the dungeon pickup playerbase sucked for the most part. Solo quest grind is ok as an option but as an enforced leveling mechanic it sucked royally.
Additionally I cannot stand looking like a clown as I level up, and like EVERYONE ELSE at max level. I'm tired of the lack of appearance slots. All the old arguments against it are dumb, and the lack of listening to the playerbase on it made me lose faith that the devs 'get it'.
And with the community sucking, I guess I just lost faith in it. I like immersion in games.
I've played WoW for almost four years, from Vanilla up till "Wrath of the Lich King" and I had quite a lot of good times in it. Vanilla was the best, the graphics seems better then and each map was new and exciting. I reached maximum level just before "The Burning Crusade" and I welcomed the increased level cap. I raided my ass of in it sometimes revisiting older raids just for fun and collecting old gear. But what killed the game for me was the next expansion. It was ok but the raids were lame and just got lamer. Every time a new dungeon came out, the old ones were left deserted and the new items just trashed the old. I've seen excellent players left out because some noobs with money to spend bought gold and bribed the officers for better gear which made all the difference. I quit and never looked back. But I do miss the times spent with 4 other friends in the superb instances of the Vanilla game.