WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[Salem_Wolf]

I hope they mass-report the guild leader because WoW bans you if you get reported before investigating.

Edit: What is the guild leaders name and server? Just out of curiosity of course!

Sorry I don't have the Guild Leader's name but the server is a US one, Llane if I'm not mistaken. I checked the original post and dug a little into there, if I can find the previous guild(s) he was in, I could likely find the Guild Leader's Name. Unfortunately, I know what kind of damage could be done against the guy if I found that, so I'm sorry but I won't investigate further than this. I'd hate to be responsible for a verbal beatdown.

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Oh, well sure the could be nicer but would any kind of other group acted any different?
If I join a soccer team for average players, but don't have any legs, they probably won't let me play or join in the first place.

There are teams for handicapped people out there, because they have any right to do what they want without any restrictions. But the same thing goes for people without disabilites. So that's why special needs teams exist.

There are guilds out there that don't use vent. He should have researched one of those instead of joining an average guild and counting on the empathy and flexibility of an internet-group. Sad but true, I think.

You've probably been quoted a lot but I wanted to add:

He wasn't born deaf, it was stemmed from an accident, which I think is significant, the worst part is he was friends with these people for a long time before his accident and was kicked out afterwards. Some friends.

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Did anyone who read this notice this part?

Its become that most people i thought were my friends just didn't want to deal with me anymore as i had become inconvenient. I felt more alone than ever.

Isn't it more sad that people he thought was his friend in real life don't want to be his friend because of his hearing problems. More so then a group of people he seem to never have met before.

I too noticed that, but as a person who has closer friends online and have met (there was never an indication he never met them, he mentioned an RL raid, which I believe is a lan-based raid in one area), it's pretty sad no matter what part you look at.

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reminds me of my aspergers. my real friends abandoned me because i had it. and last month i had some al sharpton wannabe mumbling to me(i also have a hearing inpairment due to the aspergers) and when i asked him what he said he flys off the handle saying im not allowed to say the word what to him. then he tells the manager that i was being racist to him, douchebag gets a gift card and i get written up.

theres no justice for the disabled

That's horrible. I'm sorry you had to endure that. >_< A collective "people suck" is appropriate but there's just as many considerate and tolerant people as there are douchebags. It's just sad that the douchebags get the most attention.

Edit: I think have enough responses in one post. Haven't read every post, I didn't think this would explode into three pages as it did.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Double post! Sorry.

 

[EvilMaggot]

Vent sucks, mumble ftw

but ... he researches so why being an ass over a voice IP program :S that guild leader is a major dick...

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

While that is a dick move...

I can understand where the guild leader was coming from. The new content is REALLY DAMN HARD; Vent is required to do it, nothing more. While it could have been handled better; I can at least see both sides of the argument.

 

[Wakefield]

Oh, well sure the could be nicer but would any kind of other group acted any different?
If I join a soccer team for average players, but don't have any legs, they probably won't let me play or join in the first place.

But they'd let you play if you were deaf.

Seriously being deaf isn't like having no legs. Having legs is completely vital to play Soccer. Being Deaf is just a minor inconvenience like being deaf and playing soccer. Its not crippling.

It's called an analogy.

Hearing is as vital for mid-level-raiding as legs are for soccer. Real pros play without vent, as do total scrubs. But since 99% of all players don't fall within these two categories I saw fit to make the comparisson.

I understand what an analogy is...

You can raid without ears, you can't play soccer without legs. But I guess were just not going to see eye to eye on this. So I will just agree to disagree.

 

[Shpongled]

Sorry, the notion and acceptance of voice chat strikes a nerve of how lazy people can be.

Your post reeks of ignorance. I don't know if you're some sort of Jackie Chan of the keyboard, but i haven't seen one person alive who can type as fast as they speak. Then there's the point of having your eyes focused on the chat window, and considering that you already have at least 5 points of the screen on which you need to be focused (more or less, depending on class: threat meters, boss mods, positioning, ground effects, health bars, mana, rotation, temporary auras, dispelling, interrupts, cooldowns). There's no need for any assurance on me knowing that you haven't raided even once in wow, so i'll say this: raids aren't some point-and-click games where you press 2 buttons and it's over. And typing, no matter how fast you are at it, disables movement. If an aoe hits you while you're typing, you're a lot more likely to die.

Sure, you don't need voice chat for the more casual things in wow like instances or group quests. Raids and pvp tend to be pretty heavy on the micro though.

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

I can't speak for cataclysm because i gave up a while ago after clearing all current content (server second, faction first), but i can't imagine blizz have made raiding any harder than wotlk, which was a fucking joke.

Seriously, so long as this guy researches his fights and isn't a tit, he's more than capable of dps'ing. Vent is only required for when things go wrong, or more specifically, when people do something wrong. Tanks and to a lesser extent healers may need to communicate, but as dps you can happily spend the entire fight in your own little world, so long as you're doing the dps and not standing in the fire. I just can't think of a single boss fight pre-cata where a single dps not being available on vent would jeopardise the raid, so long as that dps isn't a dribbling idiot. If the guy was a healer or tank, it's really no issue to gear up an alt, especially with the recent release of cata.

Sure, it's not ideal, but for a friend of 4 years exceptions can easily be made.

 

[scorptatious]

As bad as this is. I can probably see why he would get kicked out. Raids require lots of communication, and venting (I assume it's voice chat. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've quit WOW long before I was ever high enough to participate in raids.) is simply a better way of managing the team than typing.

That said, I'm pretty sure there must've been some way this guy could've helped out in raids without needing to use voice chat. Researching a level beforehand sounds like a perfectly good thing to do.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

Sorry, the notion and acceptance of voice chat strikes a nerve of how lazy people can be.

Your post reeks of ignorance. I don't know if you're some sort of Jackie Chan of the keyboard, but i haven't seen one person alive who can type as fast as they speak. Then there's the point of having your eyes focused on the chat window, and considering that you already have at least 5 points of the screen on which you need to be focused (more or less, depending on class: threat meters, boss mods, positioning, ground effects, health bars, mana, rotation, temporary auras, dispelling, interrupts, cooldowns). There's no need for any assurance on me knowing that you haven't raided even once in wow, so i'll say this: raids aren't some point-and-click games where you press 2 buttons and it's over. And typing, no matter how fast you are at it, disables movement. If an aoe hits you while you're typing, you're a lot more likely to die.

Sure, you don't need voice chat for the more casual things in wow like instances or group quests. Raids and pvp tend to be pretty heavy on the micro though.

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

I can't speak for cataclysm because i gave up a while ago after clearing all current content (server second, faction first), but i can't imagine blizz have made raiding any harder than wotlk, which was a fucking joke.

Seriously, so long as this guy researches his fights and isn't a tit, he's more than capable of dps'ing. Vent is only required for when things go wrong, or more specifically, when people do something wrong. Tanks and to a lesser extent healers may need to communicate, but as dps you can happily spend the entire fight in your own little world, so long as you're doing the dps and not standing in the fire. I just can't think of a single boss fight pre-cata where a single dps not being available on vent would jeopardise the raid, so long as that dps isn't a dribbling idiot. If the guy was a healer or tank, it's really no issue to gear up an alt, especially with the recent release of cata.

Sure, it's not ideal, but for a friend of 4 years exceptions can easily be made.

The problem is Cataclysm raiding is harder. MUCH harder. Because of that, theres going to be alot more wipes and mistakes. Which is why vent is so necessary to prevent that. Wrath was piss easy; and its showing.

 

[Nouw]

Assholes will be assholes. Ah well, Karma Bitches!
[sub]Oh the irony[/sub]

 

[Kwaren]

He can join "The Procrasti Nation" on Drenden. We already have one deaf person who raids with us, and we would be glad to add another.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

As bad as this is. I can probably see why he would get kicked out. Raids require lots of communication, and venting (I assume it's voice chat. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've quit WOW long before I was ever high enough to participate in raids.) is simply a better way of managing the team than typing.

That said, I'm pretty sure there must've been some way this guy could've helped out in raids without needing to use voice chat. Researching a level beforehand sounds like a perfectly good thing to do.

It was mentioned he said he would research thoroughly before the raids and he was still kicked.

"Do you know what the first question i got from my guild leader was? He asked me if i could still use vent. I told him no, but tried to assure him it wouldn't be a problem as i usually research the fights before hand and use dbm."

 

[Salem_Wolf]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really fair to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to get removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really far to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to GET removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

 

[Roxor]

I think we're missing the obvious solution: most games have text-to-speech capabilities so those without a microphone can still send audio messages to teammates. Why not just implement the reverse process in the game (speech-to-text) as an accesibility option? Something along the lines of how many puzzle games have a colour-blind mode in the graphics options?

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really far to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to GET removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

Honestly, I don't think it even came to that. What strikes me the most is that the guy says he had the fight with the guild leader; THEN he got kicked out. So he did SOMETHING. We just don't know what.

Until we get more info, its not fair to take either side on this.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Honestly, I don't think it even came to that. What strikes me the most is that the guy says he had the fight with the guild leader; THEN he got kicked out. So he did SOMETHING. We just don't know what.

Until we get more info, its not fair to take either side on this.

I suppose, still it ended horribly and whether or not it was the GL's fault or the player's fault, it likely didn't go down all too well and I think we can both agree the guy has gone through a rather terrible ordeal and either way, looks like he lost a lot of friends due to it. So, my sympathies do tend to side with him, even if he was kind of a dick about it, which may or may not be the case until we do know more.

 

[AMMO Kid]

I almost want that jerk guild leader to lose HIS hearing to learn a lesson

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

See, the problem is that the story is very one-sided. He said himself that he didn't get kicked for being deaf. The guildmaster just told him he can't raid anymore. So there was really no incentive to kick him out of the guild until he provided one by contesting the decision.

Again, the guildmaster could have been a prick and just kicked him unreasoanbly, but until i know the full story, i am not condemning him on that decision alone.

True indeed. I would like to hear what the guild master says, then again might as well let them put it behind them and move on, hope for the best and so on so on. Hopefully not ALL his friends have left him, though, otherwise that would be horrible.

 

[jumjalalabash]

Blizzard and GMs cant punish over people being assholes in a guild. Stop all the whining over trying to report the leader.