WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[Kwaren]

He can join "The Procrasti Nation" on Drenden. We already have one deaf person who raids with us, and we would be glad to add another.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

As bad as this is. I can probably see why he would get kicked out. Raids require lots of communication, and venting (I assume it's voice chat. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've quit WOW long before I was ever high enough to participate in raids.) is simply a better way of managing the team than typing.

That said, I'm pretty sure there must've been some way this guy could've helped out in raids without needing to use voice chat. Researching a level beforehand sounds like a perfectly good thing to do.

It was mentioned he said he would research thoroughly before the raids and he was still kicked.

"Do you know what the first question i got from my guild leader was? He asked me if i could still use vent. I told him no, but tried to assure him it wouldn't be a problem as i usually research the fights before hand and use dbm."

 

[Salem_Wolf]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really fair to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to get removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really far to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to GET removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

 

[Roxor]

I think we're missing the obvious solution: most games have text-to-speech capabilities so those without a microphone can still send audio messages to teammates. Why not just implement the reverse process in the game (speech-to-text) as an accesibility option? Something along the lines of how many puzzle games have a colour-blind mode in the graphics options?

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

If i can heal general vezax heroic severely stoned and tripping on acid, a deaf guy is more than capable of dps'ing any fight in the game pre-cata.

Congraulations, but no, you have to see this from the guild leader's point of view. No matter how good he was, allowing him to break the rules would cause a precedent. People would understand, but even one wipe because of his deafness would attract drama and misunderstandings that you really don't want in a guild. My guess is he was kicked because he was arguing with the decision, not because he was deaf.

And for the record, all raids are piss easy once you've done them 20 times. I can safely bet that the encounter you're talking about was a farm raid and not nearly a first kill.

I personally think he was in the right for trying to appeal the decision. He'd lost his hearing and been in the guild for 4 years, yes they were rules but there's a difference between enforcing rules and being a dick. He was going through a troubling time, they could have at least tried to figure out a way to keep him in the guild even if he couldn't raid. What troubles me more is how they were close friends and suddenly he was kicked for the whole thing. It was a real dick move, regardless of his hearing condition. If he was new to the guild or distant from the people, then yeah, maybe I could understand more, but for "friends" to do that? Damn, that's beyond cruel.

2 things, though.

1. When he asked if he could raid without vent, the guild leader told him no, because of guild rules. Not out of malice.

2. He said there was a blowout between them; however, we don't know who started yelling first, so its not really far to call the guild members asshole when we don't know what the guy did to them to GET removed like that.

I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but we don't have the full story.

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

Honestly, I don't think it even came to that. What strikes me the most is that the guy says he had the fight with the guild leader; THEN he got kicked out. So he did SOMETHING. We just don't know what.

Until we get more info, its not fair to take either side on this.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Honestly, I don't think it even came to that. What strikes me the most is that the guy says he had the fight with the guild leader; THEN he got kicked out. So he did SOMETHING. We just don't know what.

Until we get more info, its not fair to take either side on this.

I suppose, still it ended horribly and whether or not it was the GL's fault or the player's fault, it likely didn't go down all too well and I think we can both agree the guy has gone through a rather terrible ordeal and either way, looks like he lost a lot of friends due to it. So, my sympathies do tend to side with him, even if he was kind of a dick about it, which may or may not be the case until we do know more.

 

[AMMO Kid]

I almost want that jerk guild leader to lose HIS hearing to learn a lesson

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

See, the problem is that the story is very one-sided. He said himself that he didn't get kicked for being deaf. The guildmaster just told him he can't raid anymore. So there was really no incentive to kick him out of the guild until he provided one by contesting the decision.

Again, the guildmaster could have been a prick and just kicked him unreasoanbly, but until i know the full story, i am not condemning him on that decision alone.

True indeed. I would like to hear what the guild master says, then again might as well let them put it behind them and move on, hope for the best and so on so on. Hopefully not ALL his friends have left him, though, otherwise that would be horrible.

 

[jumjalalabash]

Blizzard and GMs cant punish over people being assholes in a guild. Stop all the whining over trying to report the leader.

 

[ZeoAssassin]

while it is sad about the guy's accident, any WoW-raider will tell you that voice chat and being able to listen to orders by the guild leadership during raids, or player V player battles (the competitive ones) is VITAL.

what happened to him was the exact same thing that would happen to any (insert sport or game here) player that lost his/her (insert body function critical for said sport here). obviously some football team would have to drop a player that lost their leg in a car crash and as tragic as that may be no one would really blame the football team would they?

now if he got kicked after he was told this...i would have to know the full story because the GM clearly didn't seem to want to kick him outright after hearing that the guy was unable to use vent. so if he still got kick i am think that harsh words were exchanged by both parties.

i am sure however that there is some guild out there that will take deaf people in them. there's always a guild for someone in WoW.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

See, the problem is that the story is very one-sided. He said himself that he didn't get kicked for being deaf. The guildmaster just told him he can't raid anymore. So there was really no incentive to kick him out of the guild until he provided one by contesting the decision.

Again, the guildmaster could have been a prick and just kicked him unreasoanbly, but until i know the full story, i am not condemning him on that decision alone.

True indeed. I would like to hear what the guild master says, then again might as well let them put it behind them and move on, hope for the best and so on so on. Hopefully not ALL his friends have left him, though, otherwise that would be horrible.

That's the thing. I really doubt the friends would've left him (If they even did, anyways) just for him being deaf. As I said before, if they stopped liking him after he got kicked, he did something.

In every guild I've been in, if someone was kicked, not *leaving of their own accord*, there's always been a massive blowout on chat as to why the person was kicked. I really, really doubt this was any different, and I also doubt that the guild leader would risk looking like a massive asshole for kicking him just because he's deaf. So if his guildmates stopped supporting him after he was 'removed' (very tricky wording, there) then its very likely, if not 100% that he did something to piss off the majority of the guild.

Him huffing and puffing saying 'Well, they never got that far anyway.' REALLY doesn't help him.

I used * for emphasis. He used very tricky wording; I can't tell whether he was kicked or asked to leave, or left because he didn't like it anymore and is just talking shit.

What happened to him is terrible, but his story there is very one-sided.

 

[Arehexes]

Yeah, you have a point: we don't have the full story. It's hard to tell what happened, personally I wouldn't put it past the guy who'd lost his hearing if he shouted first, I mean hard to imagine what everything he's going through is like, so, ya know. But yeah, while he didn't do it out of maliciousness, I'd at least hoped he'd say "no but you can stay in the guild while we figure things out". Either way, the guy lost a lot, but he looks to be making up for it.

See, the problem is that the story is very one-sided. He said himself that he didn't get kicked for being deaf. The guildmaster just told him he can't raid anymore. So there was really no incentive to kick him out of the guild until he provided one by contesting the decision.

Again, the guildmaster could have been a prick and just kicked him unreasoanbly, but until i know the full story, i am not condemning him on that decision alone.

You should stop explain it and defending man, I don't think every one ran with a serious guild or help run one(or even a forum).

Organizations have rules like forums and guilds and other web sites. If you don't follow them you are supposed to be banned end of story. Also he said right here

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

What did he do to cause a "huge blow out", and note he didn't said he was kicked because he couldn't use vent. He was told HE COULD NOT RAID, it was after they had this fight he was kicked out. Now it seems your going to have get the Guildmasters side on this one also, and you guys seem to be quick to jump on the deaf kids side. Assuming he is "innocent" just because he is deaf.

Anyone I'm taking my own advice and stop with this, it's a one sided story of someone whining about how his life is bad because he is deaf(I know people who are worse off, he is f'ing lucking to not be crippled) and he his whining on a forum about how he can't enjoy his old guild even though the rules state you need Vent.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

What really bugs me is how this singles out the guild as people who hate the disabled. Like they are cripple hating jerks. They're not, they are just following the principles that made raiding guilds what they are. And if you cannot get the information you need in split seconds, then you can cause wipes.

To quote William Trottier, "Sometimes the words 'its only a game' seem frighteningly lame."

Its a game. Play it to enjoy it. If you're not doing that, you're doing it wrong. If someone else being deaf is ruining your enjoyment of a game, then ... well, you're doing it wrong.

[edit]: And if you're ditching someone you used to call a friend because they went through a traumatic experience (going deaf), then well, you're definitely not the kind of person I'd make friends with, anyways.

Makes me wonder how the average guild would treat me in WoW if they knew I was legally blind. Good thing I don't play WoW, I suppose.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

They should have at least given the kid a chance, I have raided plenty of times without vent. Sad stuff.