Xbox 720 is another iPhone 4S!!

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asacatman

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Aug 2, 2008
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Not worried about graphics that much. I've found some great indie games for the pc with really shitty graphics, and one of my favourite games at the moment is half life 2 (and that's not nostalgia, I wan't into pc gaming when it was released, what with me being about ten years old.)

So yeah, not sure why everyone is arguing so vehemently! It all smacks of insecurity, to me, but whatever.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Dec 25, 2009
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Mutilator7 said:
Paying $90 for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING doesn't matter, ok.
Last I checked, that $90 has guarenteed that my online gaming will pretty much always be flawless and safe (as it has been since I bought my 360). Can't say much for other platforms in that regard.

No, i don't have ads on my PC while web browsing.
Bullshit. You're using an adblocker to do that. I can do the same to my 360 through my router if I wanted to.

You have a smart phone, a desktop, a tablet, and two laptops. And you say uploading a post from a device other than a computer is for bragging rights? I must ask if you bought all those devices yourself, because if you didn't, then it's obvious why you have this mindset.
I do not own a smartphone, a tablet, and two laptops for bragging rights. They serve their purpose individually, which is why I bought them. You know, much like why I bought a 360 because it serves a specific purpose. That should be obvious?

All you want to do is play games and care about the games. But the fact that your are paying more for the games, the console, the DLC doesn't matter?
Games at most cost $10 more on the console. The console is NOT more expensive. I have yet to see a $300 PC (since we're comparing the current generation) match the 360. The cost of the operating system ALONE takes up half that budget, so why not stop ignoring that?

People like convenience, they pay more for it. Most console gamers just put down hundreds of dollars for a console and don't care, they don't care about any polish to a game, or whether or not the developers put any real work into it. For that same reason, they don't care whether or not Activision, Ea, or anyone else is ripping them off bigtime. You say they are the ones who "truly care about games", yet they throw away their money because they are too ignorant to do anything otherwise.
Guess what? We DO care about polish. OUR polish is not 16x MSAA or 1080p, it's how bug-free and seamless a game is. And maybe you want to get off your high horse? PC gamers buy the same Activision and EA games. Although I'm sure PC gamers would love to think they're all just Minecraft/Valve/Indie kids, that's not the case and you know it. It's just the PC gamers that ***** about Activision and EA, whereas the console gamers.....actually play the goddamn game. We're not ignorant, we just don't give two fucks whether or not you think we're getting ripped off, what the agenda of Bobby Kotick is, or any other bullshit that has ZERO to do with the game.

A console gamer won't complain about graphics or mod accessibility because they know they will never have it on a console, they are limited to only what the developer allows.
Because we're not worried about graphics or mods. We're satisfied with that because it works. And we enjoy it. We're not Luddite Amish peasants tumbling around the Dark Ages of video games, for fuck's sake.

If you want to just play a game like that, go ahead, but don't say that your preferred method of gaming is cheaper, like you previously stated, because it isn't.
I will say it's cheaper. Because there is no such thing as a $300 gaming PC. Or a $400 one. No one has linked to anything, just one random guy who listed prices with no sources whatsoever.

Find me a $300 PC that can play Battlefield 3 at the same quality as the 360, and I will eat my words. Promise. (And please do remember WHAT ALL goes into a PC)
 

Bors Mistral

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LiquidSolstice said:
Find me a $300 PC that can play Battlefield 3 at the same quality as the 360, and I will eat my words. Promise. (And please do remember WHAT ALL goes into a PC)
OK, just for the exercise, I guess...

Battlefield 3 on consoles runs at 720p, is locked at 30 frames and uses the lowest settings available on PC. How to make a PC that can run it like that and cost less than $300? Here's your recipe:
-> go to a medium sized mall or Bestbay or whatever equivalent you have nearby.
-> buy a cheap-ass dual-core office PC with 2GB ram and an empty PCI-Express slot. With some minimal effort that can be found for $200 or less and comes with Windows already installed.
-> use an online price comparison engine and order a Radeon 6670 for $60 or so. That card already rolls BF3 with quality higher than your console.
-> with the rest of the budget, buy yourself a nice meal or 2-3 nice games from a STEAM sale.

But, oh noes, that cheap office PC there does not come with a screen! Well, your console does not come with a TV bundled for free either.

In the end, no, I'm not going to hold your hand and give you links. All I wrote is easy enough to do on your own, if you are actually interested. And if you just want to argue, no problem, you're welcome, go ahead.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Ah, in order to satisfy the price requirement, I have to go on eBay and buy some random dude's crappy computer after he's finished using it for his lifelong collection of porn and decides to flip it on eBay.

I'm taking about building a PC new, not using an age-old machine from the past. I can buy a 360 with a 250 GB hard drive and an included controller (sometimes even with a game included) new for $300, so why do I have to buy a PC used? You've only proved my point. You can't build an equivalent machine new for $300 or less. You have to go used.

Thanks for trying. Really. It was a good effort.

I think I've made my point. Everyone was oh-so-enthusiastic to state that you can build a PC for less than the cost of a 360 but no one seems to want to back it up. We have one person who posted a list of parts with no links to said parts, and we have another person who more or less says "Get an old used dual-core machine off eBay and put a video card in it". Doesn't inspire much confidence, now does it?

I really don't mind admitting that PC gaming has its strengths. The games are somewhat cheaper, the graphics can be pushed pretty hard, and Steam is a decent online platform for sure. But it's not the holy grail of gaming, and with the exception of a few people in this thread, not many PC gamers are willing to back down from any of their outlandish claims.
 

Bors Mistral

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Mar 27, 2009
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Man, I see you're not up to date and I don't ask you to be, but at least properly read what I wrote. If you think that "buy online" automatically means used stuff on eBay, I can see where some of your assumptions come from.

None of the parts have to be second hand. A decent video cards can be had that cheap new, and there's plenty of never used before mildly outdated PCs that stores will clear out if your budget is so limited.

And yes, that's all it takes to match up and surpass a 360 in performance. Nothing "outlandish" about it. You promised to eat your words but, as I said, you don't have to and I don't mind if you just go in denial mode like you did in your post above.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Bors Mistral said:
Man, I see you're not up to date and I don't ask you to be, but at least properly read what I wrote. If you think that "buy online" automatically means used stuff on eBay, I can see where some of your assumptions come from.

None of the parts have to be second hand. A decent video cards can be had that cheap new, and there's plenty of never used before mildly outdated PCs that stores will clear out if your budget is so limited.

And yes, that's all it takes to match up and surpass a 360 in performance. Nothing "outlandish" about it. You promised to eat your words but, as I said, you don't have to and I don't mind if you just go in denial mode like you did in your post above.
I'm happy to admit my mistake. I read "BestBuy" as "eBay". Regardless, I did a bit of research on BestBuy's site, and I seem to be unable to find this supposed "cheap dual-core tower with 2 GB of RAM" for less than or even close to $200.

It's really so damn easy to spew bullshit and refuse to back it up, isn't it? I'm sure it must be fun, but when you're ready to come back down to earth, please do take a look at the below links.

BestBuy [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemplatemapper.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=8659270585294681088&id=pcmcat212600050008&type=category&usc=abcat0500000&cp=1&sp=%2Bcurrentprice+skuid&nrp=15&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0500000%23%230%23%232g0~~cabcat0501000%23%230%23%232e~~ncpcmcat212600050008%23%230%23%231&add_to_pkg=false&pagetype=listing]

I even did more research than you bothered to do, by the way.

Fry's Electronics [http://www.frys.com/search?query_string=&cat=-68380&pType=pDisplay&sort=price%20asc&start=0&cat=-68380&from=0&to=24]
Staples [http://www.staples.com/All-Desktops/cat_CL161746#sortName=%27price%27&sortOrder=%27ascending%27&sortDatatype=%27number%27&pagenum=1&viewDetails=%27listView%27] Too bad. The sub-$300 desktops are all refurbished.
Amazon [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=amb_link_4737592_1?ie=UTF8&node=565098&emi=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=1CHWEH72XWC8112NKCAW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1343548442&pf_rd_i=565098#/ref=sr_st?bbn=565098&qid=1328151156&rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565098%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER%2Cp_36%3A2421880011&sort=price] Oh look! I could get myself a dual-core Atom! Too bad about no PCI slot though.
Newegg [http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=10&Order=PRICE]
Overstock.com [http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Desktops/132/subcat.html?sort=Lowest+Price] Seems everything is either refurbished and/or doesn't have a PCI slot

Surely you agree that I've done quite a bit more than "minimal effort". I didn't seem to find anything. I'm looking for a shred of proof, and as far as I can see, the only one that has made an effort to see if your counter-claim is right is me. Still outlandish.

It's ok though. You can just tell me I'm in denial instead of bothering to research your own claims, because that seems to be easier for you.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Dec 25, 2009
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I'll just assume you've realized I'm right, and I'll move on. Thanks for the attempt to give me a challenge. Oh wait, you just ran away when I attempted to prove your claim for you because you didn't want to.

To conclude, the point I'd like to make in regards to the OP is that the iPhone 4 was already destroying the competition in terms of performance and UI smoothness. It really didn't need the extra core or the bump in camera quality, it was already at the top. (Disclaimer: I own and have only ever owned Android phones).

In the same way, the 360 is, as of this moment the best-selling console in the world [http://www.destructoid.com/xbox-360-is-now-the-top-selling-console-worldwide-221052.phtml]. It doesn't need to have space-thrusters and machine-guns attatched to it to upload that title. That's the point; consoles are not comparable to PCs, and too many people are comparing the two. Within the console segment, the "720" based on these rumors is bringing a pretty tough competition.
 

Hateren47

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Aug 16, 2010
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I don`t get why you ask for a new $300 pc when the $300 xbox is old. You do realise that once `classic` pc parts go out of production they go out of stock, right. That`s why you would need to get a refurbished pc to get under the $300 mark.

For $400 you can get new parts though. The final $400 machine is of course going to suck compared to a pc made of gaming parts but not more than consoles, and after you buy your 10th game you have saved the $100 even though you got the same games you would have on xbox. After 40 games, bought on release, the pc would have paid for it self compared to the console.

And the Wii is still the best selling console of this generation, what ever sold more in one quarter of one year is kind of irrelevant to the big picture.

Edit: $349 gets you 2 llano cores at 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR3 RAM and a 500GB harddrive [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop/3558048.p?id=1218413774641&skuId=3558048] (compare that to a console]. Plonk in this [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/XFX+-+NVIDIA+GeForce+GT+520+1024MB+DDR3+PCI+Express+2.0+Graphics+Card/3352559.p?id=1218397405953&skuId=3352559] or this [http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-5570-PCI-Express-Graphics/dp/B00376LLO8/ref=sr_1_51?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1328344158&sr=1-51] and that`s a pretty decent pc if you have no budget.
 

Jimbo1212

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Popeman said:
Jimbo1212 said:
I like the part in your answer where you avoid answering my question and give no explanation besides " 'cause!".
No I answered it you just don't like the answer. No it's not Nostalgia it is because they are more fun. Here 2 games a I played this year Uncharted 3 and Infamous 2. Now there is no denying that Uncharted 3 has much better graphics, but I liked Infamous 2 much more it wasn't that graphically demanding. I don't care that you like games that are pretty, why should you care that I don't?
Yet again you give no answer - you just spout intrinsic adjectives.
Why did you prefer Infamous 2?
Also you seem to :
a) Be unaware of the graphical fidelity modern gpus you achieve
b) Not look at the potential of what higher fidelity etc can lead to. Look at Heavy Rain and LA Noire. Those games could not work with poor graphics, thus what could better lead to?




LilithSlave said:
Jimbo1212 said:
New graphics & power can create new game mechanics
Really? That's hard to believe. As I haven't seen much evidence of that. Care to make an argument on the behalf of this?

Jimbo1212 said:
Again, I say you need to ask yourself and be honest as to why you and those people play those games.
I know myself quite well, I don't have to ask myself why I play and enjoy something. Does anyone really have to ask themselves why they enjoy something? Not too many people that I'm aware.

I play games like Super Mario Galaxy because:
1. I have a long history of enjoying Mario games. I'm just a fan of Mario.
2. I like platforming, including 3D platforming. Mario games continuously give solid 3D platforming experiences.
3. Mario games are NOT first person shooters.
4. Mario is not dark, gritty, and manly.
5. Mario is not dark, gritty, and manly.
6. Mario is colourful and happy.
7. Mario worlds are not brown and dreary
8. Mario games are Shigeru Miyamoto games, which are consistently good

Mario games have been top sellers, since the NES. They have a good reputation. A well earned good reputation.
Look above.
Again, you give no actually explanation as to why those make the game good or enjoyable for yourself. Why do you want a vivid colour scheme over grit? Why do you not want in an fps etc.
 

LilithSlave

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Jimbo1212 said:
Look above.
Again, you give no actually explanation as to why those make the game good or enjoyable for yourself. Why do you want a vivid colour scheme over grit? Why do you not want in an fps etc.
Oh Jesus, you'd ask why someone isn't sexually attracted to vaginas, wouldn't you?

Yes, that's plenty of explanation as to why I like something. Someone doesn't have to give a deep psychological explanation as to why they like bright colours.

I've actually been able to explain why I like the colour blue better than the colour orange on this site. But on principle, I really shouldn't feed you. There's no need to explain or justify a liking of bright colours over brown grit.

I think you need to ask yourself why you ask others to justify their liking of things.
 

Jimbo1212

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LilithSlave said:
Jimbo1212 said:
Look above.
Again, you give no actually explanation as to why those make the game good or enjoyable for yourself. Why do you want a vivid colour scheme over grit? Why do you not want in an fps etc.
Oh Jesus, you'd ask why someone isn't sexually attracted to vaginas, wouldn't you?

Yes, that's plenty of explanation as to why I like something. Someone doesn't have to give a deep psychological explanation as to why they like bright colours.

I've actually been able to explain why I like the colour blue better than the colour orange on this site. But on principle, I really shouldn't feed you. There's no need to explain or justify a liking of bright colours over brown grit.

I think you need to ask yourself why you ask others to justify their liking of things.
And again, you don't answer the question but dance around the issue like a politician.
Unless you can give reason behind an opinion, it is sadly worthless and baseless and you should think about why you even bother posting if you can't reason your actions.
I ask others to explain (not justify - why do you think that? Quite an interesting choice of words....) their opinion because that is how debates work. Childish arguments end with " 'Cause I do! Meh!", yet mature debates end with reason and justifications. Naturally, I prefer the latter.
So, either don't bother replying or give an explanation.
 

LilithSlave

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Jimbo1212 said:
And again, you don't answer the question but dance around the issue like a politician.
No, I ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION and COMPLETELY EXPLAINED IT.

Most people are not able to explain why they like the colour blue better than the colour red or are more sexually attracted to penises rather than vaginas. Sometimes your opinions or your tastes, "just are". And there's no further explaining them. It's not dancing around the issue to say "I just like cute things" or "I like the colour blue", or "I'm not attracted to women", it's just AN ACCURATE ANSWER. By itself, it is an accurate answer. And you won't accept that accurate answer, so the only thing left to do is to tell you that.

Jimbo1212 said:
Unless you can give reason behind an opinion, it is sadly worthless and baseless and you should think about why you even bother posting if you can't reason your actions.
Most opinions are just that. And do not require any further reasoning, and can thus just be simply stated as a reason. They're anything but worthless or baseless. They're the most important things to every human who holds them. And calling that worthless or baseless is asking humans to justify their most basic desires. You say you're not asking people to justify anything, but you are. Because you're calling people's tastes and desires and opinions invalid and asking people to explain why they like cute things and not asking people why they would like gritty crud.

There is no explanation, many people just happen to like something different than that gritty stuff. There is no further explanation needed. And people who like it have no reason to question why they do anymore than people who love macho dudes shooting stuff.

But if you really wanted to delve into the depths of why people like what they do, and demand an explanation you don't deserve, I may have to back out on my principle of not explaining psychological motivations for heterosexuality and other ridiculous mess. maybe people like cute things in games because it caters to their nurturing side, while games about shooting stuff because of an inner psychopath that wants to be fed. That's why many people want to ban violent video games. And they won't accept a "childish" excuse of "I just do lol" for why they like SHOOTAN GAEMS. And see the desire to play dem shootan gaems, as a sign of psychological problems. Sunshine is scientifically shown to make humans happier, also, bright colours in human beings tend to more be associated with utopia or things going right . Video games represent the fanciful, and when video games are bright, fanciful, and something they can't do in real life, people often tend to like that.

Gritty games are only able to instill either cathartic, "I'm not alone" horror type games or other negative, yet positive feelings. Sort of how screamo doesn't really contain positive emotions, but can be cathartic in a "scream-a-long" catharsis sense. Or fulfill other very specific fantasies, such as the power fantasy, feeling badass in a bleak or otherwise depressing world. But colourful, fantastic, fanciful, fantasy games are able to be happy and bright for the sake of being happy and bright. It's the brain's function to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Pleasure is, well, pleasurable, and pain, is, well, painful. Exceptions like masochism would still be more defined along the lines of pleasure than pain, or one wouldn't be motivated to do it.

Cuteness, bright colours, and the like remind people of peace and prosperity. Something a lot of people want in their lives, especially if they work a stressful, unfulfilling job like most adults do. Personally, I'd rather relish in escaping to a better place when the world around me is stressful, rather than relishing in negative emotions like taking out frustrations with co-workers negatively.

Of course, none of this needed explaining. This is no better than when I explained why I'm more attracted to penises than vaginas, and why I like the colour blue better than the colour red. An opinion and taste is just an opinion and taste. Asking someone to explain it and justify it merely because they said something along the lines of "I don't like that crap", is ridiculous.

Jimbo1212 said:
I ask others to explain
Why? Because they don't like gritty crap and you do? Because they prefer cute crap and you don't? People don't have to "ask themselves" why they like the more cutesy, bright, or unrealistic and fanciful side of things anymore than the people who like the gritty, dark, macho, and realistic side of things?

You said "who else really likes that other than little girls?"

When being given a response in terms of sales that show multiple demographics, including a healthy adult demographic, you wrote it off as being misguided, inferior nostalgia, and then said "again, I would question why people like such a thing".

That's asking people to justify their tastes and opinions. That's asking people to justify why they like something other than that gritty crap.

But you won't accept an explanation no matter how ridiculously far someone goes. Because you label every explanation as "insufficient" and push the question further, as if you'll latch onto something that shows the opinion as inferior. Even labeling people liking bright things as "avoiding the question, why do people like bright things". Which isn't any better than asking why some people like the colour blue. Why? Because you won't accept accept the idea that liking cute bright fantasy crap isn't inferior to liking gritty grimdark crap.

It's like asking someone why they're homosexual because you're sure there must be some kind of unhealthy, malignant psychology there in. All I said was I don't care about graphics when it's used for that kind of aesthetic, and you could have just left it at that. But no, you decided this personal taste was in need of "questioning", because you didn't like it. Well guess what? Our opinions are awesome.
 

Jimbo1212

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LilithSlave said:
Jimbo1212 said:
And again, you don't answer the question but dance around the issue like a politician.
No, I ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION and COMPLETELY EXPLAINED IT.

Most people are not able to explain why they like the colour blue better than the colour red or are more sexually attracted to penises rather than vaginas. Sometimes your opinions or your tastes, "just are". And there's no further explaining them. It's not dancing around the issue to say "I just like cute things" or "I like the colour blue", or "I'm not attracted to women", it's just AN ACCURATE ANSWER. By itself, it is an accurate answer. And you won't accept that accurate answer, so the only thing left to do is to tell you that.

Jimbo1212 said:
Unless you can give reason behind an opinion, it is sadly worthless and baseless and you should think about why you even bother posting if you can't reason your actions.
Most opinions are just that. And do not require any further reasoning, and can thus just be simply stated as a reason. They're anything but worthless or baseless. They're the most important things to every human who holds them. And calling that worthless or baseless is asking humans to justify their most basic desires. You say you're not asking people to justify anything, but you are. Because you're calling people's tastes and desires and opinions invalid and asking people to explain why they like cute things and not asking people why they would like gritty crud.

There is no explanation, many people just happen to like something different than that gritty stuff. There is no further explanation needed. And people who like it have no reason to question why they do anymore than people who love macho dudes shooting stuff.

But if you really wanted to delve into the depths of why people like what they do, and demand an explanation you don't deserve, I may have to back out on my principle of not explaining psychological motivations for heterosexuality and other ridiculous mess. maybe people like cute things in games because it caters to their nurturing side, while games about shooting stuff because of an inner psychopath that wants to be fed. That's why many people want to ban violent video games. And they won't accept a "childish" excuse of "I just do lol" for why they like SHOOTAN GAEMS. And see the desire to play dem shootan gaems, as a sign of psychological problems. Sunshine is scientifically shown to make humans happier, also, bright colours in human beings tend to more be associated with utopia or things going right . Video games represent the fanciful, and when video games are bright, fanciful, and something they can't do in real life, people often tend to like that.

Gritty games are only able to instill either cathartic, "I'm not alone" horror type games or other negative, yet positive feelings. Sort of how screamo doesn't really contain positive emotions, but can be cathartic in a "scream-a-long" catharsis sense. Or fulfill other very specific fantasies, such as the power fantasy, feeling badass in a bleak or otherwise depressing world. But colourful, fantastic, fanciful, fantasy games are able to be happy and bright for the sake of being happy and bright. It's the brain's function to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Pleasure is, well, pleasurable, and pain, is, well, painful. Exceptions like masochism would still be more defined along the lines of pleasure than pain, or one wouldn't be motivated to do it.

Cuteness, bright colours, and the like remind people of peace and prosperity. Something a lot of people want in their lives, especially if they work a stressful, unfulfilling job like most adults do. Personally, I'd rather relish in escaping to a better place when the world around me is stressful, rather than relishing in negative emotions like taking out frustrations with co-workers negatively.

Of course, none of this needed explaining. This is no better than when I explained why I'm more attracted to penises than vaginas, and why I like the colour blue better than the colour red. An opinion and taste is just an opinion and taste. Asking someone to explain it and justify it merely because they said something along the lines of "I don't like that crap", is ridiculous.

Jimbo1212 said:
I ask others to explain
Why? Because they don't like gritty crap and you do? Because they prefer cute crap and you don't? People don't have to "ask themselves" why they like the more cutesy, bright, or unrealistic and fanciful side of things anymore than the people who like the gritty, dark, macho, and realistic side of things?

You said "who else really likes that other than little girls?"

When being given a response in terms of sales that show multiple demographics, including a healthy adult demographic, you wrote it off as being misguided, inferior nostalgia, and then said "again, I would question why people like such a thing".

That's asking people to justify their tastes and opinions. That's asking people to justify why they like something other than that gritty crap.

But you won't accept an explanation no matter how ridiculously far someone goes. Because you label every explanation as "insufficient" and push the question further, as if you'll latch onto something that shows the opinion as inferior. Even labeling people liking bright things as "avoiding the question, why do people like bright things". Which isn't any better than asking why some people like the colour blue. Why? Because you won't accept accept the idea that liking cute bright fantasy crap isn't inferior to liking gritty grimdark crap.

It's like asking someone why they're homosexual because you're sure there must be some kind of unhealthy, malignant psychology there in. All I said was I don't care about graphics when it's used for that kind of aesthetic, and you could have just left it at that. But no, you decided this personal taste was in need of "questioning", because you didn't like it. Well guess what? Our opinions are awesome.
4 lines and I get all that....riiiiiiight.

If you think intrinsic superlatives are an explanation than you need to grab a dictionary and check what constitutes an explanation.
Nothing "just is", everything has a reason. People might like blue because it is more gentle than red, less aggressive, colder etc.

No - most opinions have reason. Those who don't have worthless opinions and it says nothing positive about the persons character or mental capability. Without reason they are completely worthless, utterly useless, and only show that the person has poor analytical or logical skills.
An explanation and justification are very different. Again, go get a dictionary to see why.

There is always a reason, however you merely have not sat down and thought of it yet.

Cuteness and prosperity have absolutely no correlation. You may as well claim that cell shading is done to help people achieve enlightenment.


I ask others to explain....so I know if their opinion is worth taking notice over and makes good points, or is utter drivel and has the logic and reasoning of a 14 year old kid.
People should always ask themselves "why to everything they do in life, from how they react, to what they like. If you do not, then you will never know or understand yourself, and that is not healthy.
 

LilithSlave

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Jimbo1212 said:
Those who don't have worthless opinions and it says nothing positive about the persons character or mental capability.
Opinions are not varying and are all equally worthless or valuable. They're subjective feelings on life that hold no value outside of the humans, individual or in groups, that hold them. Understanding them is not necessary because there's nothing more really to them.

Jimbo1212 said:
Without reason they are completely worthless
Finding reason for them is worthless.

Jimbo1212 said:
An explanation and justification are very different.
That's true. But people usually have a reason for explaining things away.

And it just so happens you have been directly challenging the desire of people to enjoy certain aesthetics.

Jimbo1212 said:
There is always a reason, however you merely have not sat down and thought of it yet.
Oh no, I'm one of the few people out there who looks for a reason for everything, an explanation of my own sexuality, not opting for the simple option of "I just do", why I like my favourite colour best, and generally perplexing people as to why I care about wasting my time thinking about this crap. Only looking like an idiot to others for questioning pointless things, and rightly so. It's an absolutely silly waste of time.

But it's one thing to question the self and seek answers. It's another thing to feed someone questioning basic desires on the grounds of trying to debunk and invalidate basic desires like you.

Jimbo1212 said:
Cuteness and prosperity have absolutely no correlation.
Why not? Have you given it any thought? Dark, dreary colours are associated with death and rot. Bright colours are associated with vibrancy. Cuteness is a sign that something is healthy to exist. If there is an abundance of cute or harmless creatures like bunnies, it's a sign that such is a healthy place for them to exist. If there are cute kittens all over the place, it shows, again, the world is not uninhabitable for fairly harmless creatures and the weak taken care of. If that is not "prosperity", it is at least welcoming.

If you want to look at the "deep" sections of psychology, perhaps getting lost in happier, less violent worlds, is the desire for adults with stressful jobs, to get along with co-workers or be in a more relaxing environment. While those who focusing on playing grittier, more violent games, are more focused on negative feelings of vengeance towards co-workers. Question that, what desire is the violence in video games catering to? Do we have such violent tendencies in many video games, often not shrouded by the idea of being a "hero", because we have underlying desires of revenge on other human beings?
 

Jimbo1212

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LilithSlave said:
Jimbo1212 said:
Those who don't have worthless opinions and it says nothing positive about the persons character or mental capability.
Opinions are not varying and are all equally worthless or valuable. They're subjective feelings on life that hold no value outside of the humans, individual or in groups, that hold them. Understanding them is not necessary because there's nothing more really to them.

Jimbo1212 said:
Without reason they are completely worthless
Finding reason for them is worthless.

Jimbo1212 said:
An explanation and justification are very different.
That's true. But people usually have a reason for explaining things away.

And it just so happens you have been directly challenging the desire of people to enjoy certain aesthetics.

Jimbo1212 said:
There is always a reason, however you merely have not sat down and thought of it yet.
Oh no, I'm one of the few people out there who looks for a reason for everything, an explanation of my own sexuality, not opting for the simple option of "I just do", why I like my favourite colour best, and generally perplexing people as to why I care about wasting my time thinking about this crap. Only looking like an idiot to others for questioning pointless things, and rightly so. It's an absolutely silly waste of time.

But it's one thing to question the self and seek answers. It's another thing to feed someone questioning basic desires on the grounds of trying to debunk and invalidate basic desires like you.

Jimbo1212 said:
Cuteness and prosperity have absolutely no correlation.
Why not? Have you given it any thought? Dark, dreary colours are associated with death and rot. Bright colours are associated with vibrancy. Cuteness is a sign that something is healthy to exist. If there is an abundance of cute or harmless creatures like bunnies, it's a sign that such is a healthy place for them to exist. If there are cute kittens all over the place, it shows, again, the world is not uninhabitable for fairly harmless creatures and the weak taken care of. If that is not "prosperity", it is at least welcoming.

If you want to look at the "deep" sections of psychology, perhaps getting lost in happier, less violent worlds, is the desire for adults with stressful jobs, to get along with co-workers or be in a more relaxing environment. While those who focusing on playing grittier, more violent games, are more focused on negative feelings of vengeance towards co-workers. Question that, what desire is the violence in video games catering to? Do we have such violent tendencies in many video games, often not shrouded by the idea of being a "hero", because we have underlying desires of revenge on other human beings?
Ha, how can you possibly believe such tripe? Even the most basic school yard logic debunks that silly myth. Opinions have worth all based on logic and evidence. To have none makes the opinion worthless.

Finding reason is worthless? *facepalm* Now stop with the "No, you are!" circular child like logic and realise that without reason, it means nothing eg: "it is my opinion that watching grass grow is more fun than any games 'cause olololol", compared to " Deus Ex is the best series due to a number of reasons, from an in-depth and unravelling storyline, rememberable, appropriate and atmospheric locations and music, to solid gameplay that caters for all."
One of those opinions is fuelled by ignorance, and the other by reason and each point can be addressed and debated.

You clearly don't look for reason as you have failed every time to give one. You still have not said why graphics are acceptable to be poor, or why the new generation of consoles should not have cutting edge graphics besides "'cause I like bright colours". You have not mentioned numerous points such as potential in games with higher processing power etc and what the new 720 would be missing out on. This shows that you have not realised the scope of this issue besides personal preferences.

Prosperity is so varied across cultures, from the size of your car, or family, or health. Cuteness is how something looks............they have fuck all correlation. But then reading further on I can see that you will grasp at any straws;
"If there is an abundance of cute or harmless creatures like bunnies, it's a sign that such is a healthy place for them to exist. If there are cute kittens all over the place, it shows, again, the world is not uninhabitable for fairly harmless creatures and the weak taken care of. If that is not "prosperity", it is at least welcoming."
....the f*@k?!
An abundance of rabbits shows that there is plentiful food for rabbits and not enough predators. That is not cute, nor prosperous. All it shows is that there is plenty of grass and not enough foxes. An abundance of snakes or hyenas is not cute, yet would show the exact same thing - too much food, not enough predators.

Again, you mistake opinion for reason. I would like a world where the weak are made strong or removed, where as you want them to be looked after. I see that as a problem.
This also goes for your opinion on happy games. Why do you think that bright happy worlds would make all people happy? Many people would be happy by knowing they are successful at a game (not that vengeance crap you go on about), or find joy in a challenge, or the simple intrigue of a storyline.
 

LilithSlave

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Jimbo1212 said:
Ha, how can you possibly believe such tripe? Even the most basic school yard logic debunks that silly myth. Opinions have worth all based on logic and evidence. To have none makes the opinion worthless.
You know what? I don't even need to read more than this, and continuing this argument finally feels pointless. It's pretty clear you're trolling or just incredibly silly. I can't believe someone would argue something so absolutely ridiculous, but your continued immature responses and the insistence on the ridiculous is enough for me to tire of arguing with the likes of you.

I just hope you realize someday that opinions don't really have worth outside the people who hold them, and certainly have no value in relation to logic and evidence. Opinions are subjective, and the result of subjective emotions. They are not based upon logic or fact.

Jimbo1212 said:
Finding reason is worthless? *facepalm* Now stop with the "No, you are!"
This is one of the most childish and crass responses in an argument I have ever heard in my life. And why it is not worth arguing with you anymore.
 

Jimbo1212

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LilithSlave said:
Jimbo1212 said:
Ha, how can you possibly believe such tripe? Even the most basic school yard logic debunks that silly myth. Opinions have worth all based on logic and evidence. To have none makes the opinion worthless.
You know what? I don't even need to read more than this, and continuing this argument finally feels pointless. It's pretty clear you're trolling or just incredibly silly. I can't believe someone would argue something so absolutely ridiculous, but your continued immature responses and the insistence on the ridiculous is enough for me to tire of arguing with the likes of you.

I just hope you realize someday that opinions don't really have worth outside the people who hold them, and certainly have no value in relation to logic and evidence. Opinions are subjective, and the result of subjective emotions. They are not based upon logic or fact.

Jimbo1212 said:
Finding reason is worthless? *facepalm* Now stop with the "No, you are!"
This is one of the most childish and crass responses in an argument I have ever heard in my life. And why it is not worth arguing with you anymore.
...this forum so needs smilies because your reply is asking for some facepalm smiles to be plastered about.

You genuinely think that all opinions hold the same worth, even when some are based solely on ignorance, and others on hard facts and wisdom. Anyone sane would tell you that I am not the one who is in the wrong on this topic. Just remember that sometimes opinions end up turning into facts.
Also, you are aware that yet again you don't explain why my response is poor, just just claim it is.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Hateren47 said:
I don`t get why you ask for a new $300 pc when the $300 xbox is old. You do realise that once `classic` pc parts go out of production they go out of stock, right. That`s why you would need to get a refurbished pc to get under the $300 mark.

For $400 you can get new parts though. The final $400 machine is of course going to suck compared to a pc made of gaming parts but not more than consoles, and after you buy your 10th game you have saved the $100 even though you got the same games you would have on xbox. After 40 games, bought on release, the pc would have paid for it self compared to the console.

And the Wii is still the best selling console of this generation, what ever sold more in one quarter of one year is kind of irrelevant to the big picture.

Edit: $349 gets you 2 llano cores at 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR3 RAM and a 500GB harddrive [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop/3558048.p?id=1218413774641&skuId=3558048] (compare that to a console]. Plonk in this [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/XFX+-+NVIDIA+GeForce+GT+520+1024MB+DDR3+PCI+Express+2.0+Graphics+Card/3352559.p?id=1218397405953&skuId=3352559] or this [http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-5570-PCI-Express-Graphics/dp/B00376LLO8/ref=sr_1_51?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1328344158&sr=1-51] and that`s a pretty decent pc if you have no budget.
I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but $349 (not including the cost of the card we "plonk" in) is actually greater than $299. Granted, such oversight is common with PC gamers who prefer to ignore certain truths and outweigh them with arrogance or elitism, I just didn't think people who do it so blatantly.

I'm not including the cost of a monitor because a console does not come with one. In fact, I should be including the cost of a decent mouse and keyboard because the 360 comes with a premium periperal, not some no-name $5 glued together piece of plastic, but I'm even making that concession for you, yet you still cannot build a PC that will perform or outperform a 360 for the same cost.

I don't get what you're understanding. If it's so easy to build a PC that can do the same as a 360 for $300, why has this thread been filled with PCs that are more than that? All I see is excuses as to why it can't be done, but proclamations that it still can be. In fact, one of the people above you was such a coward that he made the outlandish claim that one could buy a new dual-core machine for $200 using "minimal effort", and when I did the research that he chose not to do, after significant effort on my behalf I could not find such a machine. (Unless you count the low-power Atom processors)

There's a simple fact that evades most overly proud PC gamers is that the claim that a $300 PC can do better than a $300 console simply cannot be substantiated. I don't give a shit if you think that Steam makes PC gaming worth the expense or that the "modularity makes it flexible". That's not the point I'm arguing.

Want to make this even tougher? If I chose to skip the 250 GB hard drive and deal with a 4GB drive, I can purchase the same 360 for $200. That's it. $200 for a machine that does the same as it's $300 variant. You buy it, you go home, you connect HDMI and Power, and you play. There is no extra hardware needed. It doesn't play the games at any lesser quality than the more expensive variant of it.

I'm perfectly open to the idea that PC gaming has its benefits. I'm just really sick and tired of people thinking that price is one of those benefits.
 

Hateren47

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LiquidSolstice said:
Hateren47 said:
I don`t get why you ask for a new $300 pc when the $300 xbox is old. You do realise that once `classic` pc parts go out of production they go out of stock, right. That`s why you would need to get a refurbished pc to get under the $300 mark.

For $400 you can get new parts though. The final $400 machine is of course going to suck compared to a pc made of gaming parts but not more than consoles, and after you buy your 10th game you have saved the $100 even though you got the same games you would have on xbox. After 40 games, bought on release, the pc would have paid for it self compared to the console.

And the Wii is still the best selling console of this generation, what ever sold more in one quarter of one year is kind of irrelevant to the big picture.

Edit: $349 gets you 2 llano cores at 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR3 RAM and a 500GB harddrive [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop/3558048.p?id=1218413774641&skuId=3558048] (compare that to a console]. Plonk in this [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/XFX+-+NVIDIA+GeForce+GT+520+1024MB+DDR3+PCI+Express+2.0+Graphics+Card/3352559.p?id=1218397405953&skuId=3352559] or this [http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-5570-PCI-Express-Graphics/dp/B00376LLO8/ref=sr_1_51?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1328344158&sr=1-51] and that`s a pretty decent pc if you have no budget.
I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but $349 (not including the cost of the card we "plonk" in) is actually greater than $299. Granted, such oversight is common with PC gamers who prefer to ignore certain truths and outweigh them with arrogance or elitism, I just didn't think people who do it so blatantly.

I'm not including the cost of a monitor because a console does not come with one. In fact, I should be including the cost of a decent mouse and keyboard because the 360 comes with a premium periperal, not some no-name $5 glued together piece of plastic, but I'm even making that concession for you, yet you still cannot build a PC that will perform or outperform a 360 for the same cost.

I don't get what you're understanding. If it's so easy to build a PC that can do the same as a 360 for $300, why has this thread been filled with PCs that are more than that? All I see is excuses as to why it can't be done, but proclamations that it still can be. In fact, one of the people above you was such a coward that he made the outlandish claim that one could buy a new dual-core machine for $200 using "minimal effort", and when I did the research that he chose not to do, after significant effort on my behalf I could not find such a machine. (Unless you count the low-power Atom processors)

There's a simple fact that evades most overly proud PC gamers is that the claim that a $300 PC can do better than a $300 console simply cannot be substantiated. I don't give a shit if you think that Steam makes PC gaming worth the expense or that the "modularity makes it flexible". That's not the point I'm arguing.

Want to make this even tougher? If I chose to skip the 250 GB hard drive and deal with a 4GB drive, I can purchase the same 360 for $200. That's it. $200 for a machine that does the same as it's $300 variant. You buy it, you go home, you connect HDMI and Power, and you play. There is no extra hardware needed. It doesn't play the games at any lesser quality than the more expensive variant of it.

I'm perfectly open to the idea that PC gaming has its benefits. I'm just really sick and tired of people thinking that price is one of those benefits.
You wanted a pc with new parts and I gave you one at the same price of a 360 when it had new parts. Which was in 2005 when it sold for $400. Hardware-wise that pc is far ahead of the 360 as well.

And I don't know if you're aware of this or not but the 360 would play the same games in lower quality than the pc i found. At the very least the pc would run at 1080p or higher. And you could use a tv for a monitor just as easily on a pc so that not even an argument.

As for price you're not looking at the bigger picture. If you buy 50 games on their release days for a console you spend about $500 more than you would if you bought 50 games at release on pc. That's enough to justify pc gaming financially to me. I don't know if 50 games are a lot for you but over 6 years I, personally, don't think it is. My brother has bought at least twice that (and four 360's). I use him as an example only because he's the console gamer I spend most the time with.

But I don't really care about your money so spend them how ever you like on whatever kind of experience you want. If you can enjoy paying through the nose for linear AAA shooters and uninspired actionRPGs just keep feeding the industry. They love you just the way you are.
 

LiquidSolstice

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Hateren47 said:
You wanted a pc with new parts and I gave you one at the same price of a 360 when it had new parts. Which was in 2005 when it sold for $400. Hardware-wise that pc is far ahead of the 360 as well.
You know damn well when I said "new" I meant "not refurbished", not "new at launch".

And I don't know if you're aware of this or not but the 360 would play the same games in lower quality than the pc i found. At the very least the pc would run at 1080p or higher. And you could use a tv for a monitor just as easily on a pc so that not even an argument.
See above. It doesn't matter how well it would run it, you picked an arbitrary time point for the cost of the 360 that was most convenient for you. How can you possibly compare new PC parts from today with "new" parts from 2005? That's disingenuous at best, and utterly pathetic at worst.

The point of component modularity is that you should be able to find "an extremely shitty GPU and shitty parts" that would "still be better than the 360". That's the whole bloody point of flexible PC parts, isn't it? If you can't do this right, than just eat your words and be done with it.

For that, I'll make it even harder. Find me $200 worth of complete PC parts that can compete with the 360 Slim 4GB Model.

As for price you're not looking at the bigger picture. If you buy 50 games on their release days for a console you spend about $500 more than you would if you bought 50 games at release on pc. That's enough to justify pc gaming financially to me. I don't know if 50 games are a lot for you but over 6 years I, personally, don't think it is. My brother has bought at least twice that (and four 360's). I use him as an example only because he's the console gamer I spend most the time with.
That's a shitty example because that applies only in the scenario that you only buy 50 games at their release day price. Also, there is no used game market for the PC (due to DRM and serial numbers). Release day games for the PC are at most $10 cheaper, and even then...I did a bit of research and I'm finding a lot of release-day games for PC costing $60 as well (BF3 and MW3 are still that price).

At any rate, I really don't give a shit how you justify PC gaming. We're not talking about whether or not it's worth it, we're talking dollar for dollar and you still cannot give me a competitive PC unless you use the price of 2005 PC parts and compare it to 2012 360 parts.

But I don't really care about your money so spend them how ever you like on whatever kind of experience you want. If you can enjoy paying through the nose for linear AAA shooters and uninspired actionRPGs just keep feeding the industry. They love you just the way you are.
Awww. There's the classic PC gamer insecurity I was expecting. How adorable. You've got jack shit to prove on the price argument (the only argument I was having), so just insult the opposition and decide that we're bringing the industry down. That works!

And people wonder why I don't like the PC gamer stigma...

Tell you what, sweetums, when you're ready to have a mature argument that is logical concerning the price of a console vs the price of a PC, let me know.