Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

[King Kupofried]

I don't usually like to entirely rule out the "after x hours it becomes better" argument, but it usually applies to something that is kinda average at first and becomes much better later. What exactly do you think make Final Fantasy 13 better after 20 hours? Summons? More Jobs to choose from? It's not like the story suddenly became wonderful, or the characters suddenly developed more than their puddle of personality. Maybe having more paradigm set-ups gives you more control over the battle flow but if they just let you actually control your other characters that wouldn't be an issue. The only thing I could think of is the Cutscene with Shaz in the chocobo cave, which was incredibly adorable..and well to be fair actually is the sort of thing I'd play a game for 20 hours just to see.

 

[Abriael]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

100 hours? FF13 is only 40 hours long and most of that is grueling

It's 40 hours if you whine about it being linear and then PURPOSEDLY play it linear

Chapter 11 can easily be over 60 hours long, depending on how you play it, if you do all the missions, hunt all the monsters, look for all the components to get your ultimate weapons and so forth.
FFXIII is 2 games in one, basically. You can chose to play one, and whine it's linear and shallow, or you can play both, and you'll have an extremely rich and deep game.

 

[llamaquest101]

Just to be sure before i preorder your book, Mogworld does have punctuation doesn't it? Otherwise that would annoy me.

 

[Paulrus_Keaton]

I was hoping he would list Skies of Arcadia: Legends. Honestly, I couldn't tell you why I enjoyed that game; hoped some Yahtzee insight could give me a hint.

 

[GoWithDAFro]

Isn´t "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

I imagine Yahtzee rather enjoys the Simpsons. They have the same favorite color

 

[ResiEvalJohn]

I agree with Yatzee. FF XIII sucked; there were no zombies in mansions with herbs and shotgun shells. What a terrible idea for a game. Who want's to kill a non-zombie enemy pressing the same buttons over and over again and walking in a straight path anyway?

 

[Brad Shepard]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

 

[Rafe]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

Ah great! I was looking for a comment that wasn't Final Fantasy bashing so I wouldn't be commenting alone against the FF hate. I agree with you completely; I have never played a game that has left me nearly as satisfied as completing a final Fantasy title. It is a certain feel to the story.

 

[Brad Shepard]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

Ah great! I was looking for a comment that wasn't Final Fantasy bashing so I wouldn't be commenting alone against the FF hate. I agree with you completely; I have never played a game that has left me nearly as satisfied as completing a final Fantasy title. It is a certain feel to the story.

I half expected the first post someone quoted me on this to be bashing, thanks , 9 had the best story in my view, just frecking awesome!

 

[dead_rebel]

How do you feel about Final Fantasy Tactics Yahtzee? Maybe that's your kind of JRPG.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

Are you done putting words in my mouth? All I said was that I didn't have the patience to play something which took 20, or even 5 hours to become fun, and when I say fun I mean by my standards. I don't have any problem with games being linear, many of my favourite games are linear; I don't like to bash Japanese games, it's just a different culture, that's all.

Also, would you like to point out just where exactly the press has been bashing FFXIII? From my research it has a metacritic score of 85%. Since objectively the rest of the world is in your camp in agreeing that the game is good, why are you wasting your time on here trying to convince what must be a few nay-sayers? I'm starting to wonder if someone has a tiny bit of a persecution complex.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

you better try out on NDS, Advance wars days of ruin...

 

[DaMan1500]

I stopped playing FF7 at the point where a black hole sucked me into a parallel dimension and forced me to fight some sort of missle-firing shed that blew me up while I helplessly mashed the "kill the fucking shed" option in the combat menu. I'm glad that someone out there shares my pain.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

100 hours? FF13 is only 40 hours long and most of that is grueling

It's 40 hours if you whine about it being linear and then PURPOSEDLY play it linear

Chapter 11 can easily be over 60 hours long, depending on how you play it, if you do all the missions, hunt all the monsters, look for all the components to get your ultimate weapons and so forth.
FFXIII is 2 games in one, basically. You can chose to play one, and whine it's linear and shallow, or you can play both, and you'll have an extremely rich and deep game.

Ah filler...... it didnt make FFX any better... and guess what..... its still a heavily linear game it just has a longer corridors than most....

 

[LawyerScumGhost]

The enjoyment of video games is subjective. That means every person will enjoy them in their own unique way. It is impossible to categorize something like a video game by your own feelings, because everyone will experience it differently. No one is stupid because they like or dislike a certain game. I loved FF VII, I really like FF XIII. THEY ARE JUST GAMES. If you don't like them, don't play them. It is wrong to look down on others just because they like different things than you.

 

[PeterDawson]

Alrighty, I can see why he would argue that there's no gameplay in XIII, but that's just not true. I'm not claiming that I'm a master of water while sitting in a river, I'm just claiming I'm having a good time. And really, when you've spent only five hours playing the game, and as it has been said many times the first part of the game is sadly the worst which is why it'll never be on a 'best game ever' list except one compiled by twats, that's no reason to condemn the whole damn game.

Anyhow, stupid fanboy ranting aside, I will add that Chrono Trigger did have an excellent narrative with well-crafted combat, the group techs being a great addition.

 

[Firia]

I agree with you Yatz, to a point, anyway. A lot of my fave JRPGs were in the SNES hayday. Many being the ones you listed. They were perfectly suited for that style of game. But modern JRPGs really bore me. Esspecially after playing games like Dragon Age, Oblivion, or Fallout 3.

Still, my fave JRPG of all time was FF7. After that, were clones trying to BE FF7.