If you care about the wellbeing of plants, don't eat animals. What do you think farmed animals eat? Raising livestock harvests far more plants than eating them directly.Byere said:
"You can't love animal's if you're not a vegetarian"
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There is no reason not to eat people. Functionally our repulsion is in part result of wanting to maintain high population numbers and our of social taboos. There is no reason not to.ThrobbingEgo said:
I would eat a person. Not ashamed to say it. There are many people on this planet, and some would make for a suitable food source.
Survival as I mentioned it was not the focus of my previous statement. As I said food is food.
I find it genuinely funny that you completely skimmed over the part that talks about how many animals are killed via pest control and farm equipment for crops, to explain to me that animals aren't killed humanely in Australia.manic_depressive13 said:
Which brings up an interesting thought though.... Do you feel that the life of a mouse is worth less than the life of a cow? How many prairie dogs need to get run over by a grain thresher before it counts-in your mind-as a single dead chicken?
So... you've embraced psychopathy? Who cares about how many people (or other sentient creatures) suffer so long as you're happy?darlarosa said:
Most people have empathy for others, which is the ability to understand how other people (or other sentient creatures) feel. That usually comes with the understanding that you shouldn't cause people to be in anguish (or, y'know, kill them) if you don't have to. Do you think it's justifiable (or not unjustifiable) for people to hurt you just because they feel like it?
Or are you just talking about 'freegan'ing human corpses that you just happen to find? I'd agree in that case it's just flesh, but the how and where you got it (killing sentient creatures?) does matter on an ethical level. Finding $80 on the ground isn't the same as shooting someone in the head and taking their wallet, even if you can buy a decent pair of headphones with the proceeds either way.
There is a tribe in the Pacific, though I don't right remember their exact location. Anyways they as a way to honor their fallen elders consumer their brains after they die. This tribe also is ridden with a degenerative brain disease that functions much like Mad Cow Disease. Transmission of this disease has been linked to the practice of eating the brains of their fallen. So yes there is a good reason not to eat other humans.darlarosa said:
How many prairie dogs have to die to harvest feed for chickens held in captivity?EvilRoy said:
As much as I'd rather inadvertently kill as few wild animals as possible, I'd rather live my life with the possibility of being hit by a car at any day than live a short life of suffering in a cage. I'm sure if there were more vegetarians and vegans, there'd be higher demand for safer farming methods for wildlife. That said, I've yet to see good statistics on the death of animals on grain farms. One test I saw involved a trial of 30 released mice and counted deaths from predators to the fatalities caused by farming, so it's more than a little suspect.
Long post used to be here, but need to whittle it down:
vegans and vegetarians can eat what they want and say what they want as long as they don't try to force their ideals on me. My enjoyment of meat is a personal choice and frankly, it tastes much better than most greens that I've eaten; however, corn, green beans, and potatoes are still good.
vegans and vegetarians can eat what they want and say what they want as long as they don't try to force their ideals on me. My enjoyment of meat is a personal choice and frankly, it tastes much better than most greens that I've eaten; however, corn, green beans, and potatoes are still good.
This argument falls short due to a very simple thing: Generalization. Whoever said you can't love animals if you're not vegetarian clearly fails to realize that the word "animals" does not refer to a single species. Aside from vegetables, every life form on Earth is an animal of some kind, including humans. Let me clarify with an example:
Let's say you grew on a farm that had livestock. For most of your childhood you ate many of the cows your family raised and you were cool with that. Then one day your dad presents you with a little baby cow you call Mooey (stick with me). You fall in love with little Mooey right away, and you raise her, walk around with her, feed her, basically developing the loving relationship any normal person would have with their pet dog or cat. Then Mom makes some BBQ for dinner, and suddenly you don't feel so keen on eating the processed remains of Mooey's family. Chicken and fish is still A-OK, but bovine meat has been written off your personal menu.
See what I mean with the example above? Just because you eat cow meat on a daily basis, doesn't mean you can't love, say, a cat, because it's not a cat that you eat on a daily basis. Your mind understands that these two, cow and cat, are different species all together.
Let's say you grew on a farm that had livestock. For most of your childhood you ate many of the cows your family raised and you were cool with that. Then one day your dad presents you with a little baby cow you call Mooey (stick with me). You fall in love with little Mooey right away, and you raise her, walk around with her, feed her, basically developing the loving relationship any normal person would have with their pet dog or cat. Then Mom makes some BBQ for dinner, and suddenly you don't feel so keen on eating the processed remains of Mooey's family. Chicken and fish is still A-OK, but bovine meat has been written off your personal menu.
See what I mean with the example above? Just because you eat cow meat on a daily basis, doesn't mean you can't love, say, a cat, because it's not a cat that you eat on a daily basis. Your mind understands that these two, cow and cat, are different species all together.
Oh lord if this post were actually the truth it alone would be proof there is a god, cause growing food before the invention of animal husbandry was so improbably that god had to have a hand in making sure people didn't starve.BNguyen said:
I find it humorous that you accept anidotal evidence of home gardens as proof that growing food is less effect then raising meat. Here is a hint you do not have to now what you are doing to plant a garden in your backyard. Also the gestation period of a cow is nine months. That means you have to feed momma cow for nine months before there is a baby cow that you can eat. Cow after all do not appear out of thin air. Plus another 6 weeks before it can be eaten as veal, which by the way is horribly inefficient that is why veal is so expensive. So that is 10.5 months before a cow is food growing vegetable is quicker then that by months.
Furthermore you can produce much more plant foods on an acre of land then you can meat, especially grazed cows they eat a lot of grass and need space to roam. That is a fact. Also crops do use up nuetrients that is why fertilizer is so important to modern agriculture and before fertilized ancient people practiced crop rotation either either by growing different crops in the same area or moving one crop to a different area.
Our crops do not grow like weeds but they are no where near as fargile as you imply. The import ants we place on meat is mostly artificial we need it don't get me wrong but no where close to what people think we do.
Sometimes People wonder why i dislike other people, course thats due to a disorder but if they read this thread, i doubt they'd like the lot of you.
First off, would all the vegetarians and vegans get off their high horse? Except those that arent on it, not going to lump all together. The biggest reason i saw for not eating animals is "morals", its morally wrong to eat animals? Who decided that? What gave you people the right to decide the morals of humanity as a whole, and if you did, why didnt you say its amoral to rape and murder? Why are people still doing that shit? See where im going here? You dont decide shit for anyone else but yourself. You dont like meat? Fine. You want to eat plants? Sure, knock yourself out. But dont assume that gives you any right or moral superiority to tell people to not eat meat, or do anything you arent doing.
Im a carnivore, preferably. I eat meat to pretty much anything, i prefer meat over stuff like well, veggies and everything else. I dont like all-vegetable foods, in fact i hate most types of vegetables, or rather dislike most of them. Does that make me a bad person? According to some of the arguements thrown around here, apparently it does. And going by that i will tell People using those flawed arguements to suck on the tailpipe of a car and die. I do not care what you eat, or why you eat it. Im not going to judge you better or worse based on your food, i judge, if anything, based on how intelligent i percieve People to be and making such arguements and comparing Meat-eaters to Nazis? Yeah, i dont see a bright light there, more a dim one. So stop trying to judge people on their diet, you're not any better than people who judge based on religion, skincolor or where people are born. Hypocritical of me given i judge people? Obviously, but at least i dont consider myself better than other People because i prefer meat over plants.
Also, just as a sidenote, a friend of mine went and did the whole vegetarian thing, they got sick, as in really sick, they passed out etc. Why? Iron Deficiency. Iron is in what? Meat. Meaning if you want to avoid meat, you better get suppositories for that, meaning have fun with the chemical bullshit.
In short, stop being close-minded, stop judging people on really silly crap that nobody should really care about and just try the whole acceptance thing. I hear it works well for most People.
First off, would all the vegetarians and vegans get off their high horse? Except those that arent on it, not going to lump all together. The biggest reason i saw for not eating animals is "morals", its morally wrong to eat animals? Who decided that? What gave you people the right to decide the morals of humanity as a whole, and if you did, why didnt you say its amoral to rape and murder? Why are people still doing that shit? See where im going here? You dont decide shit for anyone else but yourself. You dont like meat? Fine. You want to eat plants? Sure, knock yourself out. But dont assume that gives you any right or moral superiority to tell people to not eat meat, or do anything you arent doing.
Im a carnivore, preferably. I eat meat to pretty much anything, i prefer meat over stuff like well, veggies and everything else. I dont like all-vegetable foods, in fact i hate most types of vegetables, or rather dislike most of them. Does that make me a bad person? According to some of the arguements thrown around here, apparently it does. And going by that i will tell People using those flawed arguements to suck on the tailpipe of a car and die. I do not care what you eat, or why you eat it. Im not going to judge you better or worse based on your food, i judge, if anything, based on how intelligent i percieve People to be and making such arguements and comparing Meat-eaters to Nazis? Yeah, i dont see a bright light there, more a dim one. So stop trying to judge people on their diet, you're not any better than people who judge based on religion, skincolor or where people are born. Hypocritical of me given i judge people? Obviously, but at least i dont consider myself better than other People because i prefer meat over plants.
Also, just as a sidenote, a friend of mine went and did the whole vegetarian thing, they got sick, as in really sick, they passed out etc. Why? Iron Deficiency. Iron is in what? Meat. Meaning if you want to avoid meat, you better get suppositories for that, meaning have fun with the chemical bullshit.
In short, stop being close-minded, stop judging people on really silly crap that nobody should really care about and just try the whole acceptance thing. I hear it works well for most People.
Who the fuck said that? Firstly happiness is irrelevent. I'm talking straight facts. Empathy is a luxury, but there are times when it is to be put aside. I am talking in straight facts not pointless emotional appeals. I never said that we should just fucking kill people and eat them for the sake of eating them. I never insinuated that, if that is where your mind went then that is your problem. All I said was the fact is we are edible, animals are edible, plants are edible, food is food. If we were in a dessert without means of survival we would turn on each other rather quickly regardless of whether we were friends or enemies because we are food. If a man wants to kill himself then let his flesh be useful or disposed of in a useful way. We are sacks of meat and bone. We have only the dignity and respect we have created to justify our laws, and our cultures. Remove the emotions. Remove the cultural assumption of morals, ethics, taboos, norms, and mores to leave the pure and simple fact that we are food. We don't have to love every human. We don't have to love every animal. We don't have to eat every human. We don't have to eat every animal. BUT we are food and we should acknowledge that fact for what it is.ThrobbingEgo said:
I know, but from what I recall the theory is that it is in part do to the eating of the brain , specifically a brain already infected with a neurological disease. It is called Kuru and is found in the Fore tribe of New Guinea. Basically they got food poisoning of the worst kind.RoBi3.0 said:
I am sorry for your friends health issues, but the fact is Iron is not found only in meat. There are tons of plant sources that are comparable to meat. Green leafy vegetables a personal favorite of mine. So no going vegetarian does not mean you have to take supplements it does however mean you may have to actually eat vegetables.A-D. said:
Does it still count as a food chain when we grow genetically altered animals in factories? Feels more like farming.. and everyone loves farmers.. therefore everyone loves eating meat.
If you would like to quote me some statistics on acres of grain to produce a pound of animal protein and acres of, beans I suppose?, to produce a pound of plant protein then using the most conservative death rate of animals due to farm machinery we can find and pounds protein to bull I can produce an optimization for you that will tell us how many animal lives will be saved net per pound protein.ThrobbingEgo said:
Honestly I doubt it will be many, back home it was pretty normal to walk through a tilled field and see some gruesome sights every few meters. Thing is, you can't make those machines more safe for animals, especially small ones. Ground needs to get ripped up to plant, if something else is chilling in the ground then I'm afraid it gets ripped up as well. Not pleasant to see, but a fact of life.
The only realistic option to reduce animal deaths would be to use organic farming techniques and avoid using machinery at all cost. Problem with that is that organic farming is already substantially less efficient than modern farming techniques, and reducing machine use would create a massive increase labour, further decreasing efficiency.
This is what will happen if more people become vegetarians:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVyknVfsENE
On a more serious note, I've had a vegetarian friend tell me that she sometimes "likes animals more than humans". Frankly, this kind of thinking often disturbs me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVyknVfsENE
On a more serious note, I've had a vegetarian friend tell me that she sometimes "likes animals more than humans". Frankly, this kind of thinking often disturbs me.