You don't have to be afraid of taking a public stance against #GamerGate.

Don Incognito

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broadcaststatic said:
For a group that has anti-censorship as one of its primary talking points, it sure seems like asking for trouble to say anything against it.
Swing and a miss.

I've seen this over and over and over and over again, by people on both sides of this debate.

Criticism is not censorship. Using loaded words like "censorship" or implying that people who disagree with you are trying to censor you does nothing to help your argument--it actively harms it.

And I say this as someone whose attitude towards Gamergate can best be described as "disdain".
 

Nirallus

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Nirallus said:
Their modus operandi is not just to condemn but censor, so they expect to see that on our side. Which won't happen.
That's why Gamergate was doing snoopy dances over getting folks fired, because they would never censor someone. Except there.
A movement pushing for unbiased journalism wants biased journalists to be fired? What were we supposed to ask for? And it's ridiculous to compare calls to fire certain (un)professional journalists to blanket bans on allowing a topic to even be discussed.
 

Jux

Hmm
Sep 2, 2012
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Ultratwinkie said:
See? more defensiveness and now you have finally come out and admitted what you truly care about.

You don't care for minorities who get harassed, you just want your internet celebrities defended. You belittle minorities and dismiss anything that criticizes the famous for doing anything wrong.

So don't come around here and say you actually care for me, my race, or anyone else. Its obvious you really don't. I knew your apology was bogus the moment it came right after you insulted me in that PM.

Don't try to use your high horse on me when all you have offered is lip service. Funny how you mention me being on the cross when you are the highest on the cross out of all of us. How you have to go on a one man crusade against the "truth" being lost in "history."

No one will remember gamergate, but they WILL see its effects. Just like no one remembers the violent back lash to get civil rights in the 60s and 70s.
Oh, where do I start. You make inflammatory accusations, refuse to source any of it, and when called out on it, you resort to ad hominems about how 'what I really care about is revealed', basically stopping just short of calling me a racist (though it could be considered an implicit accusation considering you accuse me of belittling minorities. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt). Keep on shining you crazy diamond.

All examples of journalists trying to use their power to shame people into submission. But hey, keep on digging that hole and admitting that nonwhites don't matter. Keep on defending toxicity in journalism. See where those journalists will lead us.
Oh look, moving the goalposts and making up lies about what I said!

I can keep digging in the screen cap dump we have been keeping.
Go for it, I'm still waiting for a source that jouralists 'set their fans' on anyone, and that I defended it. I can do this all day Twinkie.
 

Don Incognito

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Nirallus said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Nirallus said:
Their modus operandi is not just to condemn but censor, so they expect to see that on our side. Which won't happen.
That's why Gamergate was doing snoopy dances over getting folks fired, because they would never censor someone. Except there.
A movement pushing for unbiased journalism wants biased journalists to be fired? What were we supposed to ask for? And it's ridiculous to compare calls to fire certain (un)professional journalists to blanket bans on allowing a topic to even be discussed.
Serious question: how do you expect to ever get "unbiased" journalism about an entertainment industry that relies on said entertainment industry for the advertising dollars that is needed to be in business?

Can you give me an example of unbiased journalism in some other portion of the entertainment industry?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Nirallus said:
A movement pushing for unbiased journalism wants biased journalists to be fired?
Only if by "biased," you mean "people who disagree."

But this is still the same tactic he was accusing the "other side" of using ans saying is not used, so stop trying to square the circle.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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The best thing anti GGers can do is just stop talking about it. The only time we will ever find peace is if we just let it blow over, which it will eventually. Or at least it will become relegated to echo chambers so that you don't have to hear about it if you don't go seeking it out.

The best thing GGers themselves can do if they actually want to have a positive influence on anything is to drop the GG title and do positive things anyway. The Gamergate flag has been shat on by too many people to have any worth anymore. I don't care how good your intentions are or how positive your actions are, by operating under that banner you are hurting your efforts, not helping. It doesn't matter where you think GG started, the fact of the matter is that it's never going to get anywhere now. There is no turning back and no redeeming the name, just as the term SJW will never be reclaimed or redeemed. To those who don't already support it, gamergate is and will always be a misogynistic pissing contest between 4chan and reddit. So just...stop it.
 

BadNewDingus

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Sep 3, 2014
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erttheking said:
Too many twats on both sides for me to give a shit. Frankly GamerGate just feels like noise. Just like with the whole Anita debate. Everyone shouting, nothing getting accomplished. To quote Macbeth "It is a tale, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Hehe. My thoughts exactly.

I too find both sides annoying for thinking they can actually change anything with the way they conduct their debates. It's as if the internet allows just anyone to express their opinion, and thus, another person takes his or her opinion to heart and calls out a whole group of people.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Not The Bees said:
I'd like to see this too. Roger Ebert is a well known movie critic that was famous for having friends in the industry. A lot of book critics are friends with the people they criticize in the literary world. Same goes for art critics. I mean... it happens in every other medium so... please tell me, why is gaming the special little boy that has to wear a helmet when he goes out to play in the sandbox?

I don't mean to be inflammatory, but it's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
Or even why the ties that are a "bad" thing only seem to cut a certain way. How convenient, isn't it?
 

Jux

Hmm
Sep 2, 2012
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Ultratwinkie said:
yes you did. When you said that gamergate was not fighting for equality and to hop off the cross is when you said #notyourshield was not fighting for equality and belittled their harassment.

#notyourshield was harassed every day for the last month. People were doxxed. yet that doesn't stop you from belittling their fight.

The entire hashtag is about equality and how the journalists fight against it, and how they use fake equality to shield themselves from real criticism.
How you got "Jux belittles minorities" out of "Jux doesn't think gamergate fights for equality" makes zero sense. Seriously, come back when you can put together a cogent argument, because I don't see the point in arguing with someone that is going to make up motivations about me based on completely unrelated stuff. #notyourshield is not a person, it is a hashtag. I'm still waiting on a single quote where I belittle minorities.

Want another example of a true threat?


These journalists use their power to brow beat people into submission in any way possible. Threats, name and shaming, and their fans who will attack whoever the journalists attack. People have circled the wagons around Leigh and her threats as well as any toxic journalist. When you said gamergate had no merit and it was only a few rotten eggs is when you defended them. These people defended these toxic tweets.
First, you still aren't providing any sources on where journalists set their fans on anyone, or where I defended such a thing. I'm going to keep bringing this up over and over until you actually source this, or admit you lied. I don't take kindly to defamatory statements about myself. Second, I haven't defended anything. And your insistence at this red team/blue team thinking doesn't make it true.

Its not just a few toxic eggs if people endorse it by defending these people.

These journalists pick out people and use their power to brow beat them. Its naming and shaming and letting their fans know who to attack. They dog piled on Sommers and j miller. They insulted them and put them on the spot in front of their fans.

The hero worship in gaming is very real, and both J miller and Sommers were a victim of it. Especially when websites started writing articles to slander her and trying to goad fans into taking arms against her by saying he is a republican.
Still waiting on those sources.
 

Nirallus

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Sep 18, 2014
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Don Incognito said:
Nirallus said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Nirallus said:
Their modus operandi is not just to condemn but censor, so they expect to see that on our side. Which won't happen.
That's why Gamergate was doing snoopy dances over getting folks fired, because they would never censor someone. Except there.
A movement pushing for unbiased journalism wants biased journalists to be fired? What were we supposed to ask for? And it's ridiculous to compare calls to fire certain (un)professional journalists to blanket bans on allowing a topic to even be discussed.
Serious question: how do you expect to ever get "unbiased" journalism about an entertainment industry that relies on said entertainment industry for the advertising dollars that is needed to be in business?

Can you give me an example of unbiased journalism in some other portion of the entertainment industry?
That's actually a good point. So why should we take anything they say seriously? Why should we even let them call themselves journalists?
 

Cronenberg1

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Aug 20, 2014
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Ultratwinkie said:
Jux said:
Ultratwinkie said:
yes you did. When you said that gamergate was not fighting for equality and to hop off the cross is when you said #notyourshield was not fighting for equality and belittled their harassment.

#notyourshield was harassed every day for the last month. People were doxxed. yet that doesn't stop you from belittling their fight.

The entire hashtag is about equality and how the journalists fight against it, and how they use fake equality to shield themselves from real criticism.
How you got "Jux belittles minorities" out of "Jux doesn't think gamergate fights for equality" makes zero sense. Seriously, come back when you can put together a cogent argument, because I don't see the point in arguing with someone that is going to make up motivations about me based on completely unrelated stuff. #notyourshield is not a person, it is a hashtag. I'm still waiting on a single quote where I belittle minorities.

Want another example of a true threat?


These journalists use their power to brow beat people into submission in any way possible. Threats, name and shaming, and their fans who will attack whoever the journalists attack. People have circled the wagons around Leigh and her threats as well as any toxic journalist. When you said gamergate had no merit and it was only a few rotten eggs is when you defended them. These people defended these toxic tweets.
First, you still aren't providing any sources on where journalists set their fans on anyone, or where I defended such a thing. I'm going to keep bringing this up over and over until you actually source this, or admit you lied. I don't take kindly to defamatory statements about myself. Second, I haven't defended anything. And your insistence at this red team/blue team thinking doesn't make it true.

Its not just a few toxic eggs if people endorse it by defending these people.

These journalists pick out people and use their power to brow beat them. Its naming and shaming and letting their fans know who to attack. They dog piled on Sommers and j miller. They insulted them and put them on the spot in front of their fans.

The hero worship in gaming is very real, and both J miller and Sommers were a victim of it. Especially when websites started writing articles to slander her and trying to goad fans into taking arms against her by saying he is a republican.
Still waiting on those sources.
"When I see industry wide trends, I will be. But so far, nothing shown even remotely suggests to me 'industry wide problem', and until then I'll simply call out the individuals when I see it." - your PM to me. I still have it in my inbox.

I can do a screencap right now.

You refused to believe in anything that might suggest that gaming journalism is toxic and entitled even with blatant evidence. You talk about how gamergate and notyourshield have no merit and aren't fighting for equality.

even when I sourced the transcript to DIGRA you refused to even read it.

You've been trumpeting the same thing over and over and now you're pissed that I put it all together.



Nevermind that she did this in her own time independent from any think tank. Not to mention they failed to mention she isn't even a registered republican. Nothing but hit pieces because she didn't back up journalists.

The evidence is blatant. So drop the neutrality act because Its not fooling anyone anymore. You refuse to see anything until kotaku itself admits it. Every single piece of evidence is just you going "nuh uh!"

When the anti GGs from other gaming journalism sites started a hate campaign against intel for pulling support on gamasutra, Leigh Alexander's website, it became obvious there was circling off the wagons. It was plastered on every website when it happened.
That "hate campaign" against Intel was just a response to a hate campaign against Gamasutra. Calling for a company to pull adds for a website that disagrees with you is Ok, but calling to put the adds back is a hate campaign?
 

Don Incognito

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They didn't call her a Republican, they called her a conservative.

I'm not a registered Democrat, but I am a liberal.

And if you think she did it independent of AEI, well, I've got a great deal on a bridge I'd like to discuss with you.
 

Don Incognito

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Nirallus said:
That's actually a good point. So why should we take anything they say seriously? Why should we even let them call themselves journalists?
Well, they can call themselves anything they want to. There's nothing we can do to change that.

But, fine. There is no game "journalism", just like there is no film journalism, fashion journalism, music journalism, etc. There are game editorials and criticism, though. Fair enough?
 

Plunkies

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Lilani said:
The Gamergate flag has been shat on by too many people to have any worth anymore.
Yes, by the unethical "journalists" who control the narrative and write non-stop attack pieces on anything and anyone that dares question their authority or self-proclaimed moral high ground. This is like saying you should stop fighting in a war because the enemy is fighting back. Obviously gamergate is being attacked, that's how we know it's working. And the best part about GG is - the more you attack it, the stronger it gets.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Plunkies said:
Yes, by the unethical "journalists" who control the narrative and write non-stop attack pieces on anything and anyone that dares question their authority or self-proclaimed moral high ground.
Yes, only by one side ever and never by anyone else, because no true gamergater or something.

Come now.
 

Timmaaaah

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Aug 8, 2009
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I received a warning from the escapist for posting about my opinion on gamergate... I honestly think it's a big load of bullshit. The personal lives of 2 people taken to hilariously stupid extremes and this absolutely ridiculous "SJW" label that seemed to pop up out of nowhere... People fought and died for our right to social justice. If I believe in social justice does that make me a "craaaaazy SJW"?