You don't have to be afraid of taking a public stance against #GamerGate.

[Caostotale]

Or consider this future: games you otherwise would have bought were canned during production because they refused to buddy up with said corrupt journalists and their agendas and were thus denied the press or the competition victory that they needed to bring their game to market.

Look what almost happened to TFYC.

I've considered your speculation and decided to relegate it to the same rubbish bin as all those 'moral panic' narratives of the past decade about liberals taking everybody's guns away, Obama using his influence to subject our Christian/secular nation to Sharia law, black kids nation-wide using the Knockout game to declare street war on innocent white people, and any number of other conspiratorial nightmare scenarios that get sucked up like catnip by boring and ordinary people who simply can't accept the fact that life is largely (surprise!) boring and ordinary and have to nurture their spiritual voids by banding together with other boring, ordinary people and festooning themselves with slogans, mantras, attitudes, and utopian ideals, all of which feed an illusion that they've been re-awoken as extraordinary, revolutionary, etc... Just like the Alex Jones 'movement', GG's been running its collective face like its members are wearing tri-cornered hats, carrying muskets, and making huge sacrifices to drive the evil redcoats into the sea, when in reality, they're a bunch of LARPers who have descended onto the local public park and ruined a whole bunch of other peoples' Sunday picnics.

By the way, 'Look what almost happened' would be a great slogan for GG.

 

[aliengmr]

I already conceded above that, no, corrupt journalism won't stop games from getting made. But instead:

A) demoralizing the dev or publisher
B) making it unlikely for the game to sell well
C) making it less likely for any future games from the dev to happen.
D) you're less likely to know it exists.

A) Probably shouldn't be developing games in the first place.

B) Capitalism

C) More Capitalism

D) Common problem regardless of any supposed "collusion". Prove that its happening.

What about it? Personally, I don't consider Gone Home to be a "game".

Certainly doesn't help in the visibility department. Way to do your part for Indie...not? gaming.

I guess you and I haven't been looking at the same pieces of evidence.

Speculation is not evidence.

In America, the courts work on "proof beyond a reasonable doubt", not "100% proof".
So I don't know why you'd hold us to a higher standard than the courts hold prosecutors to.

When's the trial?

Like how TFYC was a bad idea?

Not my point? But since TFYC is enjoying far more coverage than they ever would have...

 

[Darkmantle]

There are plenty of people harassed and attacked on both sides, and I find your efforts to paint yourself as a champion against "evil gamergate" to be diminishing the victims who support gamergate. Why do you think it's okay to diminish and deride victims who disagree with you? Do you think they deserve it?

 

[aliengmr]

There are plenty of people harassed and attacked on both sides, and I find your efforts to paint yourself as a champion against "evil gamergate" to be diminishing the victims who support gamergate. Why do you think it's okay to diminish and deride victims who disagree with you? Do you think they deserve it?

Funny, it hasn't stopped GamerGate.

Want a reason? Censoring opinions in response to the censorship of games that is not happening now, or will happen ever. GamerGate has made clear that having certain opinions will have undesirable effects. Why? Because GG can't handle criticism. Just the thought of someone having a contrary opinion produces such anguish. Thanks for unilaterally deciding I couldn't think for my self.

Sorry that you feel victimized and diminished.

 

[incandenza]

victims? seriously?

 

[IceForce]

Funny, it hasn't stopped GamerGate.

Want a reason? Censoring opinions in response to the censorship of games that is not happening now, or will happen ever.

That's what gets me the most about all this. GamerGate keeps speaking in hypotheticals and "what ifs".

"Feminists might demand video games be changed." "SJWs could have an influence on video game creation." , etc.

GamerGate has made clear that having certain opinions will have undesirable effects. Why? Because GG can't handle criticism. Just the thought of someone having a contrary opinion produces such anguish.

Tyrion Lannister put it best:

 

[Deadcyde]

Funny, it hasn't stopped GamerGate.

Want a reason? Censoring opinions in response to the censorship of games that is not happening now, or will happen ever.

That's what gets me the most about all this. GamerGate keeps speaking in hypotheticals and "what ifs".

"Feminists might demand video games be changed." "SJWs are having an influence on video game creation." , etc.

GamerGate has made clear that having certain opinions will have undesirable effects. Why? Because GG can't handle criticism. Just the thought of someone having a contrary opinion produces such anguish.

Tyrion Lannister put it best:

I'm pretty sure that most of the what ifs are completely interchangeable between GG and Anti GG.

It's become so that more people are concerned with pushing some agenda on something they only passingly care about as if it actually has an effect on something they do care about. And yes, i mean both sides.

It's gotten silly, far too silly.

 

[Calbeck]

In fact ending carriers and doxxing someone is encouraged in the Anti GG people along with racism and character assassination this shows you how many of the advocates and "megaphones...lol" are actually corrupt or if their intentions are good just plain out delusional.

"In the Anti GG people"? What does that actually refer to? Anti-GG is not an organisation; it's not even a movement in itself. It is opposition to a movement.

Funny how Gamergate isn't an organization, either. Our "organization" is limited to individuals coming up with ideas and other people in the movement deciding to get involved with the idea or ignoring it. Given the number of times our opponents demand we CREATE an organization complete with leaders and some weird chain-of-herding-cats notion, that shouldn't be surprising to you.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I was on the fence for a while, but after reading more about the roots of the movement i really don't want to associate myself with any of this. Frankly i find it depressing that people would stoop so low and that they have had this much succes starting a revolution, based on a vile witch hunt. I know it changed direction and that most probably distances themselves from all that have happened (and still happens) with Quinn, but i don't think i'm capable of that. Besides, i think i've come to realize that GG isn't a caude i would deem worth fighting for, now that it has become a fight for objective reviews and crap like that, that's the exact opposite of what i want. There'll be a time to fight for ethics, but right now i'm more interested in finding a way to stop people from acting like assholes (i'm not talking about you...), seems like a more urgent cause at the moment.

 

[Netrigan]

I was on the fence for a while, but after reading more about the roots of the movement i really don't want to associate myself with any of this. Frankly i find it depressing that people would stoop so low and that they have had this much succes starting a revolution, based on a vile witch hunt. I know it changed direction and that most probably distances themselves from all that have happened (and still happens) with Quinn, but i don't think i'm capable of that. Besides, i think i've come to realize that GG isn't a caude i would deem worth fighting for, now that it has become a fight for objective reviews and crap like that, that's the exact opposite of what i want. There'll be a time to fight for ethics, but right now i'm more interested in finding a way to stop people from acting like assholes (i'm not talking about you...), seems like a more urgent cause at the moment.

Really, the only way to end the stranglehold the game industry has on the gaming news is to mainstream the gaming news... not a million miles away from what we've seen The Escapist do in the past few months, diversifying into other mediums.

So they have plenty of content without Activision or EA giving them all the exclusives, so they if a publisher pulls their advertising, they can pick it up from another industry. To basically strip the companies of their ability to say NO.

The problem is gaming sites, just like the fans, are on the company teat. Their objection only goes so far. If Call of Duty was supporting the killing of kittens, you wouldn't be able to pry enough mouths away from their teat of choice to make them stop the killing of kittens.

 

[Deadcyde]

I was on the fence for a while, but after reading more about the roots of the movement i really don't want to associate myself with any of this. Frankly i find it depressing that people would stoop so low and that they have had this much succes starting a revolution, based on a vile witch hunt. I know it changed direction and that most probably distances themselves from all that have happened (and still happens) with Quinn, but i don't think i'm capable of that. Besides, i think i've come to realize that GG isn't a caude i would deem worth fighting for, now that it has become a fight for objective reviews and crap like that, that's the exact opposite of what i want. There'll be a time to fight for ethics, but right now i'm more interested in finding a way to stop people from acting like assholes (i'm not talking about you...), seems like a more urgent cause at the moment.

I think it's a bit weak that GG is the one copping all the "stop being jerks" nonsense or the "i can't side with GG they're too malign for me" when it's been rife on both sides. False flags, outright lies, harassment, doxxing, ddos; boh side are equally as guilty of this yet for some reason all i hear in the media is "Gamergate is a misogynistic movement" when really its more:

"Everyone's shouting and it's making no real difference except as a huge distraction as everyone tries to undermine the perceived oppositions moral high ground and any attempt at real discourse is being overpowered by this pretty pretty distraction"

You'll notice most people that actually game have stopped any real vocal addition to this clusterfuck of political agendas because they've no doubt realized it's having little to no perceived difference on gaming itself as is evidenced by the continuation of rubbish on steam greenlight, the continual anti consumerist gouging by AAA and that "game/r of the year" awards have no effect on gaming content.

It's a waste of time, not a culture war.

 

[Richard Keohane]

I reiterate, this is not a debate. Gamergate is not a debate. It has not been a debate for quite some time now. Gamergate is a consumer activism movement to burn businesses to the ground and salt the earth for their ilk in the future. Gamergate is a mass-email campaign intended to change an industry to suit the liking of the majority of its consumers. That is all it is. There is no leader, there are no tenets, there is no collusion. The reason gamergate still exists after two months is because there are still things for people to be angry about. You cannot remove someone's anger by debating their right to be angry, you can only remove it by removing the source for their anger. "Debate" in the context of gamergate is a joke, and should be treated as such.

So, putting aside all the controversy about the terrible things #gamergate started with, and just talking about #gamergate as it stands right now...

This thread wouldn't be a debate, except #gamergate supporters keep on bringing up the debate. You can say that you have transcended the need for debate, but then, why is #gamergate's supporters still mostly just debating?

Because it's trying to find relevance. 90% of #gamergate was yelling loudly through the internet, 5% of gamergate was death threats, hacking, and other deplorable behavior, and 5% of #gamergate were people trying to actually take action to do something good. Most of the trolls and the white knights have had their moment in the sun and moved on to better things... there's very little of #gamergate left but people yelling and debating. I'd like to see a positive outcome from #gamergate more than anyone, but there's very little left of the movement that's actually doing much of anything towards reforming the community. The Escapist updated their code of conduct because of #gamergate, so good on them. There are some "blacklists" floating out there, which are meant to leverage the community against corruption, but it's not really getting much traction.

Honestly, #gamergate is almost nothing but debate at this point.

 

[Agkistro]

In one aspect GG has likely done much more harm than good. You can't prove this collusion is going on. You can speculate that it might have happened or could have happened, but you can't 100% prove it.

If you are saying that with a straight face, then you simply haven't been paying attention to the very thing you mean to criticize. Is there anybody out there doubting the existence of GameJournoPros?

This future, which has started to take shape, is one where small time indie devs blame their failures on corruption rather than their own bad ideas. Crying foul at any criticism made because there's a movement waiting with open arms, who won't judge them at all.

Er, kind of surprising to see you slam Depression Quest like that, given the other things you said.

 

[Silvanus]

Funny how Gamergate isn't an organization, either. Our "organization" is limited to individuals coming up with ideas and other people in the movement deciding to get involved with the idea or ignoring it. Given the number of times our opponents demand we CREATE an organization complete with leaders and some weird chain-of-herding-cats notion, that shouldn't be surprising to you.

Sorry about the wait for a response.

It's not surprising to me at all; I'm well aware it's not an organisation. Still, it is a movement in its own right, which "Anti-GG" isn't.

 

[Deadcyde]

Funny how Gamergate isn't an organization, either. Our "organization" is limited to individuals coming up with ideas and other people in the movement deciding to get involved with the idea or ignoring it. Given the number of times our opponents demand we CREATE an organization complete with leaders and some weird chain-of-herding-cats notion, that shouldn't be surprising to you.

Sorry about the wait for a response.

It's not surprising to me at all; I'm well aware it's not an organisation. Still, it is a movement in its own right, which "Anti-GG" isn't.

Well i'd believe that if there wasn't as much harassment, group think and targeted attacks.

 

[Silvanus]

Well i'd believe that if there wasn't as much harassment, group think and targeted attacks.

That "anti-GG" is a movement in its own right?

Could you enlighten me on my question; does one have to identify themselves with it to be a part of it, or does it include anybody who's critical of GamerGate or its supporters?

 

[Calbeck]

Funny how Gamergate isn't an organization, either. Our "organization" is limited to individuals coming up with ideas and other people in the movement deciding to get involved with the idea or ignoring it. Given the number of times our opponents demand we CREATE an organization complete with leaders and some weird chain-of-herding-cats notion, that shouldn't be surprising to you.

Sorry about the wait for a response.

It's not surprising to me at all; I'm well aware it's not an organisation. Still, it is a movement in its own right, which "Anti-GG" isn't.

Maybe if they could agree on a hashtag and stick with it...? *ponyshrug*

 

[Silvanus]

Maybe if they could agree on a hashtag and stick with it...? *ponyshrug*

Would then the hashtaggers be the canonical "anti-GG"?

A great number of GamerGate's critics would be discounted, then.

 

[Calbeck]

Nonetheless, the cold hard facts are that nobody has apologized, and all of the sites you've been going after are still standing. I'm very doubtful that you can change that.

Well, you're welcome to your opinion. If the attitude is going to remain "nothing wrong was done", our attitude will remain "your advertisers may not agree". This has gone from protest to boycott for that reason, and standard boycott strategy is now in play.

let's suppose, just for argument's sake, that Gamer Gate actually manages to destroy Gamasutra. Even if that happens, I don't see Leigh Alexander being completely forced out of the gaming journalism industry.

She's welcome to seek new employment. Free country and all. Heck of a thing to put on one's resume, however.

A lot of anime fans have just learned to ignore these people, at least insofar as they find them offensive. Perhaps those in the GG movement should make the same decision with some gaming journalists.

Hard to ignore ongoing censorship.

The mainstream TV media is now getting involved.

GGers WERE heavily against doing so, until the MSM Left began parroting LiterallyWu's line by parroting one another. Something I had already warned was going to happen. Now it's grudgingly being accepted that the Leftward Media Well has been thoroughly poisoned.

Which has brought more support around to my position on the subject. You see, I was rather heavily involved in center-right politics some years ago, still know a few folks. Didn't WANT to bring the MSM into this, but Wu already did that. Now we're in the position of countering on a larger scale...

...and guess which networks consider themselves in direct competition with Wu's choice of MSNBC? With far bigger ratings and a constant desire to show MSNBC as terrible excuses for reporters? Which means vindicating GamerGate as far as humanly possible, in order to cause the most damage to their rival?

Yeah, you can thank Wu for forcing this particular hand. Problem was, she bet the farm on a pair of threes.

The situation is escalating, well beyond your control.

*laughs* Oh man, you really have no idea...

 

[GloatingSwine]

Well, you're welcome to your opinion. If the attitude is going to remain "nothing wrong was done", our attitude will remain "your advertisers may not agree". This has gone from protest to boycott for that reason, and standard boycott strategy is now in play.

This is the greatest irony of GamerGate.

Attempting to control editorial stance via advertising cashflow is a direct breach of journalistic ethics!.

The only effect GamerGate has sought to have so far is to break down ethics in videogame journalism by enabling advertisers to control the editorial voice.