your child is transgendered

[GrumbleGrump]

Simple: Wait till they're 18 so they can have their operation or take their meds or whatever, under the condition that they do it under their own money. If they regret it afterwards, it's their fault. I would do this so that they can be absolutely sure that they want this.

Also I won't have a kid. Fuckin hate the annoying little shits. But I guess this is a "What If" scenario.

 

[Darkmantle]

Being gay isn't something that's made a big deal of anymore (at least in Europe), from either straight or gay people, yet Trans for some people is something they feel the need to yell from the rooftops or become extremely exclusionary of people who are "cis". Fight for equality rights by all means, but they moment you stop being all "HELLO I'M TRANS I'M SUCH A BIG DEAL", is when people start treating you equally. Equality also includes equally not having your sexuality/gender state made anything of.

History lesson:

I'm queer. I live a very white-picket fence type of life. And I like it that way. But I can't deny something and that's the fact that LGB (and to a lesser extent, T) only got rights by being loud and open and angry.

No one got rights by sitting around meekly and waiting for society to accept them. It's actually quite interesting. Circa the era of the Stonewall riots, there was a pro-gay group known as the Mattachine Society. They were dedicated to slowly introducing the idea of gay rights. Yet, they made very little strides in 1950-1960. In the end, it was the Stonewall riots that changed more for gays in society. We're talking drag queens and hookers and miscellaneous other gays linking arms and dancing and rioting in the streets. Who gets remembered for prompting the Gay Rights Movement? The Stonewall Riots or the Mattachine's reactionary "candlelight vigil?"

---

Now. Back on topic. I would follow SOP. Puberty-blockers and therapy until a diagnosis of GID was confirmed. Then at 18, turn over their medical decisions to them.

I would also like to think I would provide more support than most.

No one got their rights by being extremely exclusionary and toxic to the majority of people either. Martin Luther King Jr didn't win civil rights by insulting "the god damn whites", you're not going to get very far insulting "cis" people.

 

[BarkBarker]

Be extremely sure they are of clarity in this decision and not just "hm I don't what I am and I read a thing once so that must be it" self diagnosis. Self diagnosis is really a hellstorm for a teenage mind, it is so easy to want to find who you are that you find the one possible answer and stick to it. If with everything sorted and some years have gone by they are still sure of who they are and what they want? Help them get it.

 

[Proto Taco]

If my children ever came to me with that kind of statement, I would probably not react well, but I would arrange for a checkup on that point with the appropriate healthcare service, and I would also seek the advice of two different psychologists, preferably one female and one male, from different schools.

The only thing that would happen is the healthcare service and the psychologists wouldn't tell you what you want to hear, and your kid would never trust you ever again and would probably hide a whole range of things from you. Their risk of suicide would also increase dramatically.

That was exactly my parents' response, and that's exactly how I reciprocated.

People brush children off as impulsive and naive when it comes to their own mental wellbeing, and it causes a lot of damage. 95% of my problems right now could have been averted if people would have just listened to me a decade ago in middle/high school. But I was just an ignorant, compulsive little shit, what could I possibly know about the inner workings of my own mind?

Mommy and daddy always 'know best' after all...

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

Being gay isn't something that's made a big deal of anymore (at least in Europe), from either straight or gay people, yet Trans for some people is something they feel the need to yell from the rooftops or become extremely exclusionary of people who are "cis". Fight for equality rights by all means, but they moment you stop being all "HELLO I'M TRANS I'M SUCH A BIG DEAL", is when people start treating you equally. Equality also includes equally not having your sexuality/gender state made anything of.

History lesson:

I'm queer. I live a very white-picket fence type of life. And I like it that way. But I can't deny something and that's the fact that LGB (and to a lesser extent, T) only got rights by being loud and open and angry.

No one got rights by sitting around meekly and waiting for society to accept them. It's actually quite interesting. Circa the era of the Stonewall riots, there was a pro-gay group known as the Mattachine Society. They were dedicated to slowly introducing the idea of gay rights. Yet, they made very little strides in 1950-1960. In the end, it was the Stonewall riots that changed more for gays in society. We're talking drag queens and hookers and miscellaneous other gays linking arms and dancing and rioting in the streets. Who gets remembered for prompting the Gay Rights Movement? The Stonewall Riots or the Mattachine's reactionary "candlelight vigil?"

---

Now. Back on topic. I would follow SOP. Puberty-blockers and therapy until a diagnosis of GID was confirmed. Then at 18, turn over their medical decisions to them.

I would also like to think I would provide more support than most.

No one got their rights by being extremely exclusionary and toxic to the majority of people either. Martin Luther King Jr didn't win civil rights by insulting "the god damn whites", you're not going to get very far insulting "cis" people.

Did I say insulting? Or exclusionary? Or toxic? I don't believe I did. What I said was "Loud" and "Open" and "Angry."

But it's ridiculous to think trans-folks will get rights by hiding away in silence.

Perhaps the reason elvor0 notices so many people taking pride in their identity as trans- is exactly because they are ostracized. Because no one will give them rights, they need to be out and proud and demand them. Because even the Gay Rights movement has been somewhat complacent about trans-rights, unfortunately.

And perhaps you forget how inflammatory MLK Jr. really was. While he didn't espouse violence, he WAS radical for his time. To the point where the FBI sent him a letter encouraging him to kill himself.

"A riot is the language of the unheard." -MLK Jr.
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed." -MLK Jr.

Now this is getting off-track, so back to the OP:
If you want trans- people to stop flaunting their status, we need to accept their identity as legitimate. We need to accept that GID is a legitimate diagnosis for which there is an accepted course of action that is shown to be beneficial in the vast majority of cases.

And this thread is evidence of the fact that there is still quite a long-way-to-go before trans-folks will have the leeway and the privilege to be silent about trans-rights. And those of us forward-thinking people need to support that. Hence my answer.

 

[Lilani]

Ok. I am going to get flamed for this.

I consider transgender people to be mentally ill, unless it is one of the rare cases where the chromosomes are messed up, eg "Chapelle syndrome" or something of that sort. In that case, its a physical health issue, and should be dealt with as such.
If my children ever came to me with that kind of statement, I would probably not react well, but I would arrange for a checkup on that point with the appropriate healthcare service, and I would also seek the advice of two different psychologists, preferably one female and one male, from different schools.

However, if this came after my child was 18, I would state the truth, that I think he or she might be slightly insane on that point, but, I will not deny them to do anything that is legal and inside of their rights. I might not like it, but it would be wrong to attempt to deny anyone their legal rights. My opinion on them using said rights might be another point, but if you have the right to X, I will defend your right to make use of it.

Transgendered people are mentally ill, in the same way people with clinical depression are mentally ill. It's called gender identity disorder [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder] and the treatment is therapy, hormone treatment, and if it's deemed applicable in their case then gender reassignment surgery. It has distinct and documented symptoms which can appear in children about as young as speaking age. Children that young will not only insist they are of the opposite sex, but will also express discomfort with their genitals, insisting they are not right or they are in the way.

Just as the proper way to treat a child with clinical depression isn't to tell them to suck it up and get over it, the proper way to treat a child with gender identity disorder isn't to tell them they're a psychotic freak.

 

[Darkmantle]

Being gay isn't something that's made a big deal of anymore (at least in Europe), from either straight or gay people, yet Trans for some people is something they feel the need to yell from the rooftops or become extremely exclusionary of people who are "cis". Fight for equality rights by all means, but they moment you stop being all "HELLO I'M TRANS I'M SUCH A BIG DEAL", is when people start treating you equally. Equality also includes equally not having your sexuality/gender state made anything of.

History lesson:

I'm queer. I live a very white-picket fence type of life. And I like it that way. But I can't deny something and that's the fact that LGB (and to a lesser extent, T) only got rights by being loud and open and angry.

No one got rights by sitting around meekly and waiting for society to accept them. It's actually quite interesting. Circa the era of the Stonewall riots, there was a pro-gay group known as the Mattachine Society. They were dedicated to slowly introducing the idea of gay rights. Yet, they made very little strides in 1950-1960. In the end, it was the Stonewall riots that changed more for gays in society. We're talking drag queens and hookers and miscellaneous other gays linking arms and dancing and rioting in the streets. Who gets remembered for prompting the Gay Rights Movement? The Stonewall Riots or the Mattachine's reactionary "candlelight vigil?"

---

Now. Back on topic. I would follow SOP. Puberty-blockers and therapy until a diagnosis of GID was confirmed. Then at 18, turn over their medical decisions to them.

I would also like to think I would provide more support than most.

No one got their rights by being extremely exclusionary and toxic to the majority of people either. Martin Luther King Jr didn't win civil rights by insulting "the god damn whites", you're not going to get very far insulting "cis" people.

Did I say insulting? Or exclusionary? Or toxic? I don't believe I did. What I said was "Loud" and "Open" and "Angry."

But it's ridiculous to think trans-folks will get rights by hiding away in silence.

Perhaps the reason elvor0 notices so many people taking pride in their identity as trans- is exactly because they are ostracized. Because no one will give them rights, they need to be out and proud and demand them. Because even the Gay Rights movement has been somewhat complacent about trans-rights, unfortunately.

And perhaps you forget how inflammatory MLK Jr. really was. While he didn't espouse violence, he WAS radical for his time. To the point where the FBI sent him a letter encouraging him to kill himself.

"A riot is the language of the unheard." -MLK Jr.
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed." -MLK Jr.

Now this is getting off-track, so back to the OP:
If you want trans- people to stop flaunting their status, we need to accept their identity as legitimate. We need to accept that GID is a legitimate diagnosis for which there is an accepted course of action that is shown to be beneficial in the vast majority of cases.

And this thread is evidence of the fact that there is still quite a long-way-to-go before trans-folks will have the leeway and the privilege to be silent about trans-rights. And those of us forward-thinking people need to support that. Hence my answer.

Well I can assure you I was far more pro trans before trans people started calling me cis piece of shit. a "cishit" if you will. But hey, if you want to turn people away from you, and make your "enemies" dig in their heels and push back harder, by all mean go around and keep insulting and deriding the vast majority of people.

Or being "loud open and angry" as you call it. But I think we're talking passed each other, you would like to believe the behavior I speak of doesn't exist, and I cannot bring myself to be naive enough to think it's only a tiny minority of "activists" who engage in said behavior.

 

[Proto Taco]

To all the 'nurture' camp trans dismissers out there;

I am Trans(MtF) and I don't give two flying fucks about feminity. I also don't have any problems with masculinity. What I DO have a problem with is being male. I wear pants, t-shirts, and a sports bra because it's comfortable not because I'm 'hiding' or 'part time'. I don't care where I pee, I can't sleep with long hair because it's too hot and uncomfortable, and I don't wear makeup because it's a useless pain in the ass. But I CANNOT function properly without taking estrogen and hormone blockers.

Puberty, for me, was what basically amounts to a violently unpleasant menopause for any other woman. The happiest moment of my life was when I had been sitting in a sharp-edged chair long enough to pinch the nerve that leads up into your 'junk' and it went completely numb. For a brief fleeting moment I was so happy I could've cried, until I realized 'it' was still there and I promptly fell into a deep depression. All through middle and high school I experienced ghost sensations around my chest and hips much in the same fashion as an amputation victim. In grade school, just before puberty, my classmates teased me because I talked too much like a girl and I had to force myself to learn to talk like a guy.

All through that I maintained my enjoyment of LEGOs, Transformers, Ninja Turtles, etc, and only passively played barbie with my sister when she was in the mood. No part of my childhood 'taught' me to be female, or that all my masculine hobbies were so feminine I needed to be female. But here I am, on HRT, outperforming most of my classmates in college on both ends of the gender spectrum, and yet, I'm the one who has a 'mental disorder'. Simply because I was born with quite possibly one of the most insidious birth defects in the world.

Meanwhile trans people are portrayed the world over, as one-line frat boy jokes, punchlines, or pedophiles. When a trans person dies they are literally considered 'less dead' by the majority of the population. There is NO part of anything in modern or pop culture that would suggest being trans is anything resembling a favorable condition, or something you should aspire to.

Yet, the pervasive attitude is that we're just a bunch of whiny emo kids who comb our hair over our eyes. We're the 'problem children'. And really, what can we say to that? No one will separate us from the 'trans umbrella' that has crossdressers and transvestites shoehorned into it. Anything we say, any fortitude we demonstrate for standing up for ourselves is easily dismissed as 'just more whining and attention grabbing'. We are such an inconvenience we have even been marginalized within our own term.

 

[jackpipsam]

I'd do whatever needs to be done to make sure they grow up comfortable and happy.

I personally don't subscribe to adultist ideals, so have no doubt of a 13 year old's feelings.
I would want to love them for who they are, spend a long time trying to figure out who they are and work with them for what they want from their future.

 

[ArcaneGamer]

this is for everyone but as a transgirl myself, I have become curious.

Let's say you have a child and as they grow up you notice they're not like other kids. THey're either unusually effeminate or tomboyish, liking my little pony or transformers over what you would normally expect for a child.

And they're not growing out of it. In fact they're expressing a strong desire to become the opposite gender, saying that they want medicine to change them....

How, as a parent, would you handle this? Bear in mind we are talking about someone roughly around 13 years old.

What would you do, and why?

EDIT:

Wow, the rampant ignorance in what it means to be transgendered in here is getting pretty depressing. I would hope people would actually research what it means to be transgendered before playing armchair psychologist.

Secondly, people are focusing way too much on children's interests. I was using that as an example but there are many other ways one can see that their child is different which is the angle I was going for in the first place.

ONe final note...You cannot 'convince' someone they are the wrong gender. To suggest otherwise is quite silly. The process of getting cleared for hormones alone weeds out those who are not truly transgendered with t hose who are.

Trying to convince someone they're the wrong gender is like trying to convince a fish they can walk. No matter how much you talk, it just isn't going to happen.

(Cracks Knuckles) Alright...let's do this. For the sake of argument, let's say my son is asking to be female.I'd ask if this what he really wants, and how long he's felt this way. I'd ask again to sure, since it's likely a pricey process. Then I'd tell that if that's what he wanted, then I'd support whatever he decided. Why? Because I'm his father, and that's my job/duty as one, dang it! Also, I'd direct him here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUqivXMlpcQ

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Being gay isn't something that's made a big deal of anymore (at least in Europe), from either straight or gay people, yet Trans for some people is something they feel the need to yell from the rooftops or become extremely exclusionary of people who are "cis". Fight for equality rights by all means, but they moment you stop being all "HELLO I'M TRANS I'M SUCH A BIG DEAL", is when people start treating you equally. Equality also includes equally not having your sexuality/gender state made anything of.

History lesson:

I'm queer. I live a very white-picket fence type of life. And I like it that way. But I can't deny something and that's the fact that LGB (and to a lesser extent, T) only got rights by being loud and open and angry.

No one got rights by sitting around meekly and waiting for society to accept them. It's actually quite interesting. Circa the era of the Stonewall riots, there was a pro-gay group known as the Mattachine Society. They were dedicated to slowly introducing the idea of gay rights. Yet, they made very little strides in 1950-1960. In the end, it was the Stonewall riots that changed more for gays in society. We're talking drag queens and hookers and miscellaneous other gays linking arms and dancing and rioting in the streets. Who gets remembered for prompting the Gay Rights Movement? The Stonewall Riots or the Mattachine's reactionary "candlelight vigil?"

---

Now. Back on topic. I would follow SOP. Puberty-blockers and therapy until a diagnosis of GID was confirmed. Then at 18, turn over their medical decisions to them.

I would also like to think I would provide more support than most.

No one got their rights by being extremely exclusionary and toxic to the majority of people either. Martin Luther King Jr didn't win civil rights by insulting "the god damn whites", you're not going to get very far insulting "cis" people.

Did I say insulting? Or exclusionary? Or toxic? I don't believe I did. What I said was "Loud" and "Open" and "Angry."

But it's ridiculous to think trans-folks will get rights by hiding away in silence.

Perhaps the reason elvor0 notices so many people taking pride in their identity as trans- is exactly because they are ostracized. Because no one will give them rights, they need to be out and proud and demand them. Because even the Gay Rights movement has been somewhat complacent about trans-rights, unfortunately.

And perhaps you forget how inflammatory MLK Jr. really was. While he didn't espouse violence, he WAS radical for his time. To the point where the FBI sent him a letter encouraging him to kill himself.

"A riot is the language of the unheard." -MLK Jr.
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed." -MLK Jr.

Now this is getting off-track, so back to the OP:
If you want trans- people to stop flaunting their status, we need to accept their identity as legitimate. We need to accept that GID is a legitimate diagnosis for which there is an accepted course of action that is shown to be beneficial in the vast majority of cases.

And this thread is evidence of the fact that there is still quite a long-way-to-go before trans-folks will have the leeway and the privilege to be silent about trans-rights. And those of us forward-thinking people need to support that. Hence my answer.

Well I can assure you I was far more pro trans before trans people started calling me cis piece of shit. a "cishit" if you will. But hey, if you want to turn people away from you, and make your "enemies" dig in their heels and push back harder, by all mean go around and keep insulting and deriding the vast majority of people.

Or being "loud open and angry" as you call it. But I think we're talking passed each other, you would like to believe the behavior I speak of doesn't exist, and I cannot bring myself to be naive enough to think it's only a tiny minority of "activists" who engage in said behavior.

So you don't like that some people lump you in with bad cis people so the proper response is to do the same to trans people.

But really, why try to sway the fence sitters who lack principles? If it isn't being right or wrong that sways them but if they feel happy enough they sound like too much trouble.

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

snip

So you don't like that some people lump you in with bad cis people so the proper response is to do the same to trans people.

But really, why try to sway the fence sitters who lack principles? If it isn't being right or wrong that sways them but if they feel happy enough they sound like too much trouble.

I wish. Fencesitters are probably one of the most dangerous categories of people, but perhaps the most important.

No, I definitely do believe those people exist.

Let me start by saying that that is not acceptable of them. But:

1. There are people who actively deny they exist. (Source: A sizable percentage of the posts here.)
2. There are cis-gendered people ACTIVELY campaigning to strip away their rights as we speak. Literally. Right now. No hyperbole. (Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kansas-gov-brownback-nixes-protections-lgbt-workers-article-1.2110996 )
3. Traditionally, the only way to be heard was to be out-spoken. (See above example. Fun fact: The Mattachine Society hung this sign up in the window of the Stonewall Inn: "We homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the Village.")

So they called you a name. It probably bruised your ego a bit. But look at it this way: There are not politicians trying to take away your rights to: employment, housing, status RIGHT NOW, THIS VERY MINUTE (In the first world, no less). So at the very least, maybe you can understand why they might be overly aggressive.

Again, I want to emphasize that I don't agree with those tactics. Hell, I've been yelled at by activists before ("I'm on my way. Right now. To a date. With a man. That's exactly how much I'm not straight." Haha.). But it's hard not to say it's justifiable anger.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

snip

So you don't like that some people lump you in with bad cis people so the proper response is to do the same to trans people.

But really, why try to sway the fence sitters who lack principles? If it isn't being right or wrong that sways them but if they feel happy enough they sound like too much trouble.

I wish. Fencesitters are probably one of the most dangerous categories of people, but perhaps the most important.

No, I definitely do believe those people exist.

Let me start by saying that that is not acceptable of them. But:

1. There are people who actively deny they exist. (Source: A sizable percentage of the posts here.)
2. There are cis-gendered people ACTIVELY campaigning to strip away their rights as we speak. Literally. Right now. No hyperbole. (Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kansas-gov-brownback-nixes-protections-lgbt-workers-article-1.2110996 )
3. Traditionally, the only way to be heard was to be out-spoken. (See above example. Fun fact: The Mattachine Society hung this sign up in the window of the Stonewall Inn: "We homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the Village.")

So they called you a name. It probably bruised your ego a bit. But look at it this way: There are not politicians trying to take away your rights to: employment, housing, status RIGHT NOW, THIS VERY MINUTE (In the first world, no less). So at the very least, maybe you can understand why they might be overly aggressive.

Again, I want to emphasize that I don't agree with those tactics. Hell, I've been yelled at by activists before ("I'm on my way. Right now. To a date. With a man. That's exactly how much I'm not straight." Haha.). But it's hard not to say it's justifiable anger.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to be critical of Darkmantle, pointing out that he was being a hypocrite. And also showing my disdain for fence sitters who try to get people to pander to them for their favor like it seems he was doing

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Well I can assure you I was far more pro trans before trans people started calling me cis piece of shit. a "cishit" if you will. But hey, if you want to turn people away from you, and make your "enemies" dig in their heels and push back harder, by all mean go around and keep insulting and deriding the vast majority of people.

Or being "loud open and angry" as you call it. But I think we're talking passed each other, you would like to believe the behavior I speak of doesn't exist, and I cannot bring myself to be naive enough to think it's only a tiny minority of "activists" who engage in said behavior.

Given that your idea and belief of basic equality stems by very personal and subjective stimuli, and not a belief of equality that should be intractable due to basic human rights and personal liberty. I have never met you, and if you told me your support was contingent on the idea that simply being human wasn't enough my equal rights under society and the law, but guaranteeing your feelings were never going to get hurt by anyone who may be trans in the future, then don't you think you have stern words to be thrown your way?

Yeah, sorry ... I'm not apologizing for other trans people calling you a piece of shit. Your feels are none of my concern. I've met unpleasant people who are trans ... still not going to deny them equality under society and the law. I've met very unpleasant straight cisgender people ... not going to deny them equality under society and the law.

 

[William Ossiss]

this is for everyone but as a transgirl myself, I have become curious.

Let's say you have a child and as they grow up you notice they're not like other kids. THey're either unusually effeminate or tomboyish, liking my little pony or transformers over what you would normally expect for a child.

And they're not growing out of it. In fact they're expressing a strong desire to become the opposite gender, saying that they want medicine to change them....

How, as a parent, would you handle this? Bear in mind we are talking about someone roughly around 13 years old.

What would you do, and why?

Well... We would probably sit down, and talk about it. I would understand that they would feel wrong with the gender that they currently are, but inform them that the type of procedure to change that is mind blowingly expensive. I would let them dress and act the way that they are, but tell them that if they still feel this way once they reach 18, they can go ahead and do what they want with their bodies.
You always have to be true to who you are.

 

[redmoretrout]

This is why I'm not going to have children for a loooong time, if ever. I can't be trusted to make life changing decisions for someone else. Hell I can barely manage my own affairs

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

snip

So you don't like that some people lump you in with bad cis people so the proper response is to do the same to trans people.

But really, why try to sway the fence sitters who lack principles? If it isn't being right or wrong that sways them but if they feel happy enough they sound like too much trouble.

I wish. Fencesitters are probably one of the most dangerous categories of people, but perhaps the most important.

No, I definitely do believe those people exist.

Let me start by saying that that is not acceptable of them. But:

1. There are people who actively deny they exist. (Source: A sizable percentage of the posts here.)
2. There are cis-gendered people ACTIVELY campaigning to strip away their rights as we speak. Literally. Right now. No hyperbole. (Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kansas-gov-brownback-nixes-protections-lgbt-workers-article-1.2110996 )
3. Traditionally, the only way to be heard was to be out-spoken. (See above example. Fun fact: The Mattachine Society hung this sign up in the window of the Stonewall Inn: "We homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the Village.")

So they called you a name. It probably bruised your ego a bit. But look at it this way: There are not politicians trying to take away your rights to: employment, housing, status RIGHT NOW, THIS VERY MINUTE (In the first world, no less). So at the very least, maybe you can understand why they might be overly aggressive.

Again, I want to emphasize that I don't agree with those tactics. Hell, I've been yelled at by activists before ("I'm on my way. Right now. To a date. With a man. That's exactly how much I'm not straight." Haha.). But it's hard not to say it's justifiable anger.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to be critical of Darkmantle, pointing out that he was being a hypocrite. And also showing my disdain for fence sitters who try to get people to pander to them for their favor like it seems he was doing

Haha, no, I got that. Sorry. I should have been more clear and separated the quotes to make it obvious that I was trying to have two conversations at the same time. This electronic media and it's lack of social clues!