Your thoughts on... Nerd/Geek culture of today.

[Vigormortis]

Err... did you just quote me twice in two threads on the same subject?

I did. But I hadn't seen a response in the other thread until well after I'd read this new thread and saw you repeat a point I'd brought up in that other thread. I thought that was odd but just assumed the topic of discussion moved to this thread. My apologies.

Anyway, so...

I am only talking about the people who are behaving poorly. I said "a lot of the people", not "all of the people" or even "most of the people".

If some geeky fellow out there is happily playing WH40K, reading Batman comics and debating the finer points of Dune or whatever then I have no problem with that guy. More power to him. I'm not talking about that guy.

Hell, if our hypothetical geek is fat and depressed and lonely while playing WH40K and reading Batman comics then, well, that's a shame and it would probably be in his own best interests to make some changes but so long as he isn't taking it out on other people then I still don't have a problem with him.

So why accuse geek culture of fostering poor behavior? It implies that geek culture, by its nature, breeds antagonistic and exclusionary behavior.

It's essentially:
Person 1 - "Geeks are such assholes!"
Person 2 - "I'm a geek and I'm not an asshole."
Person 1 - "I didn't mean all geeks, duh."
Person 2 - "Then why did you say, 'Geeks are such assholes'?"

As for the "rallying cry for the death of geek culture as a whole"... umm... I didn't saying anything along those lines. In fact I said I like a lot of the stuff it produces. I probably count as a part of geek culture myself (depends on how you define it of course, it's a rather nebulous thing after all.)

If cries for the extermination of geek culture are your issue then you're going to have to take it up with someone who is saying that.

Not really. At least, not solely. My issue was the general perception that 'geek culture' fosters poor attitudes. Even if geekdom houses such people, it's not the 'culture' of geekdom that made them that way.

Geeks/jocks/fashionistas/cosplayers/whatever aren't assholes. People are assholes.

If you weren't implying 'geek culture' breeds this sort of behavior, then that's fine. I have no issue.

 

[Zhukov]

So why accuse geek culture of fostering poor behavior? It implies that geek culture, by its nature, breeds antagonistic and exclusionary behavior.

Because I think it does.

Not in all its members obviously, but certainly in a lot of them. Enough for me and many other to notice.

Do other cultures do equivalent things? Sure. We've already pointed out the shit that goes on it sports culture. The point has been made.

However, poor behaviour elsewhere does not excuse poor behaviour here. This thread is about geek culture and I think geek culture breeds its own kind of shittiness, stemming from the unusual prevalence of maladjusted misfits.

It was the "fake geek girls" thing that cemented this view in me. Any culture capable of generating a full blown fucking moral panic over who is allowed to wear a Batman t-shirt or make Portal references has got something rotten in it.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

Like I said, people are assholes. If you feel you need to add associative qualifiers on top of that, that's fine. You do you. I just don't feel the same need. :/

 

[Phasmal]

I know there are other posts directed at me in this thread but I literally just woke up.

That's just stupid people being stupid. Someone asking someone else if they are a fan of Fallout when that person is at a Fallout 4 midnight launch is stupid, plain and simple.

It sure was stupid. My friend was picking up a pre-order, wearing a Fallout shirt, a Brotherhood of Steel hoodie and had painted her nails to match her hoodie, and we had to queue for like 10 minutes just to get in the store. (I didn't get asked because I sent my boyfriend up to collect my Pip-Boy Edition, I was paranoid about getting mugged). It was pretty easy to see what separated my dear friend from the majority of the people there.
(And no, dude wasn't joking).

Now I'm not saying dude should be strung up for having a bit of verbal diarrhoea, just that some people should not be confused by ladies buyin' games in the first place. (I'm still mad at Mr. Oh-this-playstation-is-for-boyfriend-then, like dude I love him but I don't love him that much I'm not his sugar mama).

 

[chadachada123]

It was the "fake geek girls" thing that cemented this view in me. Any culture capable of generating a full blown fucking moral panic over who is allowed to wear a Batman t-shirt or make Portal references has got something rotten in it.

Ignoring for a moment the "girl" part of "fake geek girl", how is it illogical to be wary of people that appear fairly new to the hobby but overly open about it, particularly when this hobby had been previously seen as "uncool" just a few years prior?

When I was in middle school, Pokemon had just become un-cool again, and I would have been cautious about any girl (or guy) wearing Pokemon apparel. Similarly, when Pokemon and Halo and CoD became popular again during my junior/senior year, even among the jocks and the popular girls, I always had my guard up lest I say something TOO nerdy and be branded some sort of loser. My actions were mostly asocial and defensive, not anti-social and offensive. In hindsight, most seemed like typical casual gamers and not the type to fake it because they wanted to be "such a nerd lol xD".

On the internet, though, I can easily see why faceless or anonymous gamers would be more offensive towards these apparent newcomers who SEEMED to be the type that would have made fun of us just a few years prior, since the internet doesn't have social stigma to control the flow of conversation.

Remember of course that, without hard statistics, we have no way of knowing just how many people are offensive dicks about it. That multiple girls in this thread have been accused of being fake isn't necessarily a sign of a culture-wide problem if it's just a handful of guys calling out every suspected girl they find. That's just people being dicks, an unfortunate absolute.

Mostly though, it's hard to argue about this sort of thing when we have different definitions for all of this. Your idea of what a "fake geek" looks like to those that dislike them probably does not match their definition. A strawman of sorts, though unintentional. Hell, I disagree completely that there ever was a full blown moral panic, but that could be because our definitions vary.

 

[Fox12]

Why do you word things like I'm the bully? (I could be misreading your words if so I apologize) I don't try to bully others. Sounds like you have issues with people in your personal life who claimed to be geeks and so you generalize your hostility to others who claim the same label.

If I came across that way then I legitimately apologize. I never meant to insinuate that you were a bully, or that you were personally responsible for the things I was criticizing. I was simply describing some of the people I had interacted with. When I say you or you're in my following response, I'm typically using it for the sake of discussion. I'm not actually talking about you specifically.

I totally disagree with what you say and I feel you just want to call us sexist and insult us.

I never said you were sexist, or that all geeks were sexist. What I said was that certain people that I knew, who identified themselves as geeks, were sexist, racist, and homophobic. And they were. I also said that I think that terms like "geek" are too vague, and shouldn't be used as an identifier. The vast majority of people fall under the umbrella of geek culture. It's mainstream now. People don't fall under simple identifiers, especially when they grow up and leave highschool.

People that are bullied don't magically get better and well adjusted and asking us to is dismissing our trauma. sorry but I won't dismiss the bullying many of us have endured so lightly. When you have an abused animal you don't put it to sleep just because its a bit jumpy and snaps at people unless you're heartless. You certainly don't blame the animal for the actions of those that abused it to the point it became antisocial. You try and get people to stop abusing them and try and help socialize those that were abused as best you can. Telling them to get over it and not be bullies themselves is sweeping the problem under the rug and blaming the victim. They shouldn't be bullies either, but they are better than the people that abused them to that state to begin with. If you wish to denigrate a group, denigrate the bullies that habitually pick on the weak and different.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I had been bullied. I get it. I really do. But I think a lot of people who have been bullied lack perspective. If you're a geek, and you bully someone, then why are you better then the guy who gets beaten by his dad and then bullies someone at school? A persons victimhood doesn't excuse their behavior. If anything, they should know better. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that people who seem cool, confident, or attractive have the same crippling anxieties that we do. A person isn't more justified in their abuse just because they have a troubled past. That victim complex is what I was criticizing.

If you bully someone because you think they are misogynist you're still a bully.

I don't think I called any specific person a misogynist. However, I will absolutely stand up to anyone who is racist, sexist, or homophobic. I will probably be very harsh, and I'm not sorry. I won't bully them, but I will absolutely stand up to that behavior. If they apologize, then I will forgive them. Anyone can change and improve. It's not bullying to stand up to someone who is mistreating others. And if a person bullies others, and then gets upset when someone stands up to them, then they need to reevaluate their behavior, because they are extremely self centered, and clearly only care about their own feelings. They have a victim complex, and they should seek to address that.

Falsely labelling people things to denigrate them is bullying. Please stop bullying geeks.

How dare you.

Not getting social mores and saying offensive things because you do';t get why they are offensive isn't bullying. Not knowing how to interact socially because of being rejected or having social issues does not make you a bully.

Not necessarily, but I won't allow someone to carry on hurting others just because they don't understand social norms. If they have social issues then I'll obviously take that into consideration when confronting them, and I'll try to be polite, but I can't allow them to hurt others either. Some people are just assholes, though, and I'm not afraid to be more direct with them.

I think your last paragraph was ridiculous and insulting.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

The majority of geeks I grew up with were in the gifted programs and actually smart people. Objective testing showed that most of the geeks I knew were in fact smarter than average.

Again, I was talking about people I knew. What I'm arguing is that I don't think "geeks," as some kind of collective, are any smarter then any other group. That always struck me as a tad bit elitist. And, since most people today would fall under the geek banner, they obviously can't all be above average. In my experience most self identified geeks had pretty average intelligence. They were identified more by their hobbies then by their intelligence. I don't think liking anime and video games automatically makes you smarter then someone who likes watching football. Especially when the most popular anime right now is still Naruto.

You saying we just think we are despite testing is just you wanting to further your view that the people you wish to denigrate deserve it. You come across as a bit of a bully.

I never said that, but I'm really getting tired of you accusing me of being a bully for disagreeing with you. I wasn't even being rude. If that's how you feel, no wonder you think bullying is so prominent.

I'm sorry you never saw any of that. That is truly your loss. Geek culture, in my personal experience, is all those smart people who came together as a result of being excluded and systematically bullied. Maybe you encountered posers or something but the geeks I know and the new ones I meet tend to have intellectual interests in addition to their geeky passions.

How can you say that geeks aren't cliquish and exclusionary, and then accuse certain people of being posers? When people accuse others of being fake geeks, they are being cliquish and exclusionary.

Once you know them they are way less rude and exclusionary than the people that bullied and harassed them.

Yes, when you are part of the clique the people you are with seem less cliquish. But I'm sure the same is true for the jocks, or any other highschool group you care to mention.

You hit another human being because of words?
*shakes my head in disgust*

Yes, I did. I don't expect you to understand, but I'm not sorry. Bare in mind that I had known him since childhood, and this had been building up for some time due to his treatment of others. I had also stood up for him for years, and tried to improve his behavior.

You physically attacked another human being (whom you admitted was abused) because they didn't get social mores?

No, I hit him because he'd been mocking someone for several days, and I had repeatedly told him to stop. He wouldn't. Maybe I was wrong to lose my temper and do that. I don't regret it though.

What if it turned out your friend had Aspberger's?

He didn't. You seem to be reading a lot into this. He knew better, and he chose to behave this way anyway. There's a lot of history you don't know about, but that moment had been a long time coming. A sad end to what had once been a close friendship.

Your admitted proclivity to use physical force against those that perform in a way you disagree with makes me think you are a bully. The way you seem to try and justify bullies and attack geek culture does not dissuade me from this opinion. You complain about bullies yet you are one. I find that despicable.

I don't think I did any of those things. Evidently disagreeing with you makes me a bully. I'm not sure why. I think you're reading your own personal problems into my post, since you claim to see things that weren't really there.

I'm glad your former friend got over being friends with a bully. Your friend was an asshole, too but as you said you were bullied and then you thought it was ok to bully someone else because they said something you found offensive.

I haven't bullied anyone. Although, based upon the civility of your response, I have a decent understanding of your character.

I'm sorry your experience with geek culture is such that you seem to think we are stupid bullies. Those of us who have been harassed by popular bullies and bonded together over passions, hobbies, and intellect proudly claim the moniker of geek and contradict your bias.

I never said that. Please stop putting words in my mouth. That's quite disrespectful. Also, please stop trying to force everyone into groups. You seem to be stuck on a highschool view of the world, but the world doesn't really work that way. At all.

As has been said before, our personal experiences shade our viewpoints. The geeks I know have been very inclusive and accepting of others. A friend of ours came out as bi and was so nervous about how his friends would react. when he told his all geek gaming group, we didn't react the way he expected. We just pretty much said "ok and?" He asked why it wasn't an issue to us one way or the other. It turns out it is because it didn't seem to be relevant to us. We were glad our friend figured out something about himself and that he was happier. We didn't even say we supported his decision at first because it didn't need support. It was who he was and why would we get in the way of who he was if it didn't harm anyone else? We didn't get why he was so nervous until we found out the friends he did have that were popular and mainstream stopped being his friend.

Good for you. The people I knew would have called him a fag, and told him he was going to hell. Unless it was a girl, because then they could flirt with her.

In my experience mainstream popular people and jocks were the exclusionist bullies, who physically attacked and emotionally harangued anyone different. The geeks accepted us all for who we were.

You really have to stop labeling people. People are individuals, and you have to stop forcing them into groups. Instead, judge them individually. This is the main point I've been making. I've known jocks that were assholes. I've also known jocks who were popular, attractive, kind, and got straight A's. I've known "geeks" that failed most of their classes, were rude to everyone, and had no goals in life. You need to see the larger picture, and stop viewing "geeks" as some persecuted segment of the population, like blacks or Muslims.

What if the exclusionary culture you see is simply geeks trying to create a "safe space" from the people that have mocked and harassed them? Some groups that have been abused deserve respite but geeks don't?

Not if their attempt to feel safe causes them to act out against other people. Especially when their the ones causing the drama in the first place. They aren't defending themselves, their simply atacking others, and then using their persecution as a shield to deflect honest criticism. If a person can't stand fair and honest criticism, then why are they dishing it out in the first place? What you're actually asking for is a double standard.

 

[Gengisgame]

Geek culture is absolutely fine irl.

All cultures come across as toxic when you view them from online.

Even some of them aren't that bad, you just tend to focus on the bad.

Take my comment for instance, it's speaking positively about geek culture, just try not to remember the one that has one guy insulting another.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm gonna be snippin' again. Things I don't think are important or can't really address further. Sorry if this reply comes out a bit strange. Y'know those days where you don't feel like you've really woken up? Yeah, I'm having one of those.

I hate to do this because this is about to sound really pretentious or something. But... I think I am an average looking guy. The problem I encounter in real life geek culture spots is that I am not ugly. I would guess I come off as the loud small guy that hangs out with the in-crowd people even though that mostly isnt true. (I have been that guy a couple times for a few months) If I am in those circles I am getting made fun of for being a little geek. In my thrities I have filled out a little, but not much. I have a loud personality I am pretty sure comes off as obnoxious often. I can't tell where so I constantly just pull the reigns back on everything and try to stay low key. However, I like extremes and even staying low key often still comes off as loud and probably earns me a "douche" label. Maybe that is just insecurities, I don't know and quit really caring years ago. The point is I don't have many of the visible inequities many of my geek friends have had over the years and it is hard to relate entirely to their insecurities. For lack of a better term, I don't look like a geek and have been told as much.

Yeah, I get that. I don't know what it's like to be a nerdy dude with those specific insecurities. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be okay with some nerd dude putting his insecurities on me.

Now that said, we have to be the light at the end of the tunnel. Pretentious as hell, isn't it? But seriously, I love so much of Geek culture and find so much of pop culture superficial. By making geek culture a popularity contest we are taking away the inclusive nature that is inherent in it. Before everyone else got here, we all got along because we had to despite all of these flaws that annoyed us even about each other. That guy playing magic across from me has a weird annoying tick and is kind of an asshole about the rules, but hey - its someone who will play magic with me and he has some cool cards and combos. After hanging out for a while you start to rub off on him and he stops being an asshole.

I'm really not sure what you mean by 'popularity contest'. And who is 'everyone else'? And I'm pretty sure we didn't all just get along before the last ten years because I kinda didn't just show up in the last ten years and have always been seeing this crap.

And I think people make the mistake of assuming that geek culture and pop culture are mortal enemies. You can like both things. A lot of geeks define themselves as not only liking geek stuff but hating anything outside it, and I think that's a mistake. They're just limiting the things they can enjoy. I play Hearthstone while painting my nails. I take a break from Overwatch to crochet. I listen to pop songs on my gaming PC a friend built for me. Maybe a bit off topic, just sayin'.

It isn't about commanding respect, its about being someone in the community who can shoulder some of the actual heavy baggage of the community. That is what every community is about. Just like I have to help carry your baggage (you needy girl ), you have to help carry mine.

I... don't... what?
That's kind of my point. You don't need to carry my baggage, and I don't need to carry the baggage of guys who were ignored by girls in high school.

The people abusing the culture are those who step inside of it and proceed to attack it as if that gives them justification. Saying that geek culture as a whole is "bigoted, sexist, vile, and toxic" and claiming that you are right because you exist within it is faulty. Why then are you acting as an outsider casting stones within? Why are you not trying to build up instead of trying to tear down the community you supposedly consider yourself a part of? They aren't a part of a community, they are trying to tear it down from within. Claiming to be a part only for validation in their argument, not to actually be a part of.

I haven't stepped inside anywhere. I've always been here. I don't think pointing out flaws is trying to tear down the community.

EDIT: A great example of why I like you.

Lt. Commander Data: Is not honesty always the preferred choice?

Captain Picard: Excessive honesty can be disasterous.

A sentiment I myself have a hard time containing. Just try to see if you can help everyone focus on a positive aspect of your perspective and try to leave the negative out if you can. (Note: If you can, sometimes it is really hard but it gets easier over time) Always try to push the positive side of your argument harder than the negative and always assume that anyone who speaks against you, does so with the best intentions.

This still doesn't answer my question. If my mere presence in geek culture is enough to upset a dude, what am I supposed to do about that?

Here, this is a perfect example (I've used it before, but it's just useful). A few years ago, when me and my friends got tired of WoW, we all switched over to Neverwinter for a little bit. We did what we do, and we made a guild. Back then (I don't know if they fixed it), we were all on the same server as all the Americans. So, this American dude joins and he comes onto our voice server. I don't remember what we were talking about, but I say something. At which point he's like 'Oh I didn't know there was a girl in here' and I'm like 'Well. Yep.' at which point he asks me if I like playing video games. I sort of let that question hang there because really. Anyway, dude decides to warn my friends and boyfriend that he just had to check because you can't be too careful.

In your opinion, what should I have done in that situation, where a dude is telling my friends, that I have known for over 5 years through videogames that they need to be careful because I might not actually like them?

I know what I did, I want to know what you think I should have done.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What if it turned out your friend had Aspberger's? You attacked someone who may not have known better.

Asperger's is no excuse, though "what if they maybe had Asperer's?" is often used as one.

Assuming that it was, though, nobody using that excuse seems to want to also ask if the person who thinks bullying is wrong only does so because they have Asperger's, and don't know they should tolerate it.

 

[maninahat]

There's good an bad. It's great how the internet has enabled a fairly private and notoriously introverted crowd to come together (it has gotten way easier to meet like minded geeks/nerds). Twenty years ago it was a hard community to access, and I'm amazed how easy it has become for me to just look on a meetup website and start attending an RPG with a group of complete strangers who happen to live around the corner. The internet has made the culture thrive, and it probably isn't an accident that we started seeing loads of geek themed blockbusters around the same time the internet became widely available.

That said it does lead to a lot of dogpiling, soundboarding, and choir preaching. I can now go out and find any number of people to back up whatever insane, mean or destructive opinion I have. There is still the same number of people out there who will tell me I'm crazy and I need to get with the program, but internet culture permits me to easily ignore them and stick to my self-selecting in-groups. Plus the internet has a habit of amplifying even mildlu negative opinions into a shitstorm, just through the sheer number of people having a negative say. So geek/nerd culture has developed a hard edge to it as well.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

What if it turned out your friend had Aspberger's? You attacked someone who may not have known better.

Asperger's is no excuse, though "what if they maybe had Asperer's?" is often used as one.

Assuming that it was, though, nobody using that excuse seems to want to also ask if the person who thinks bullying is wrong only does so because they have Asperger's, and don't know they should tolerate it.

...I'll be honest, people saying the 'what if they had aspergers/autism' always come across to me as people who haven't... well, interacted with people who have those things.

Like... you can have Aspergers or Autism and still be an asshole. I've worked and lived with people with Aspergers for years, and quite frankly sometimes it's not a case of 'oh, they don't know better', it's a case of 'No, they're just dickheads'. Just because someone has a developmental disorder doesn't mean they can't be a shitty person, and know full well that they are acting like a shitty person.

...I dunno. This isn't quite related to what you said, it's more a vent of frustration at the fact I've seen at least two people in this thread claim Autism/Aspergers as a Geeky thing/excuse for shitty behaviour, which is just... plain offensive. It's just... so wrong. Fuckin' christ.

(I feel I should point out this isn't me shitting on people with Aspergers or Autism, just pointing out that people can be good/bad regardless of what they have and that it's a shitty move to try and use those disorders as an excuse for people being shitty. Probably an unnecessary disclaimer but after seeing how some people post around here, can never be too careful.)

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I tried to answer this in my head but I just keep coming back to "wtf is it?"

Is this just internet stupidity or am I supposed to have noticed some sinister happenings IRL?

Geek culture is absolutely fine irl.

I suspect this is probably pretty accurate. Wake me up when geeks are starting gangs and not just saying disparaging things about pop-culture artifacts on the internet.

 

[Karadalis]

Can we please diferentiate between geek culture in RL and geek culture on the internet?

From my personaly experience, when i go to cons here in germany i see all kinds of people... religion, skin color, looks.. and non of that matters. People are friendly, engaging and welcoming.. no matter if youre a gamer, cosplayer, role player, blizzard fan... not once have i had a single negative experience on any of the cons i went to. (kept for hour long waiting lines infront of the next big AAA EA blockblunder... looking at you battlefront!)

Online however... hooooo boy...

The nature of the online experience makes it look like the majority of people are complete and unredeemable assholes... when in truth its less then a tiny fraction that acts like shitflinging monkeys.

Its just that the more outlandish, more ridiculus and more agressive you are... the more people will pay attention to you.

And this concept has existed long BEFORE the raise of the internet mind you... why do you think certain politicans in the past (and present... amiright hillary? Trump?) have been voted into office not for being reasonable, well balanced people... but rather extreme personalities?

Because people tend to ignore the reasonable and rather go for the outrage because these opinions and statements stand out... BECAUSE reasonable is the norm...

And the norm is boring...

So if some twat on social media is throwing a hissy fit, or some SJW wanna be spouts completly out of place theories that have no basis in reality.. it will generate ALOT more attention then lets say the millions upon millions "peacefull" comments and posts that are generated every day.


Or in other words:

Geek culture online only seems toxic because of confirmation bias... and the nature of the internet itselfe.

It is infact alot less toxic and agressive then any other enthusiast community out there, and alot more welcoming too. You only have to keep in mind that the world is a big place and that there are bad people out there who also have access to the internet. And due to the nature of the internet you will not be able to avoid encounters with these unpleasant beings. That doesnt mean that these unpleasant beings are what defines geek and nerd culture... it just means that these people stand out the most.. they are not the norm.. they are the outliers.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Can we please diferentiate between geek culture in RL and geek culture on the internet?

From my personaly experience, when i go to cons here in germany i see all kinds of people... religion, skin color, looks.. and non of that matters. People are friendly, engaging and welcoming.. no matter if youre a gamer, cosplayer, role player, blizzard fan... not once have i had a single negative experience on any of the cons i went to. (kept for hour long waiting lines infront of the next big AAA EA blockblunder... looking at you battlefront!)

Obviously can't speak for Germany, but I've read a lot of complaints about cons in other areas. Occasionally in regards with racism, but usually sexism, women going being sexually harassed or assaulted is brought up all the time, usually in regards to a lack of action about it.

 

[Jux]

When I was a kid, I didn't tell others about my nerdy hobbies because it wasn't cool (and my self esteem sucked pretty bad). Now I don't tell people about my nerdy hobbies because I'd rather not be tainted with the association of the toxic communities.

 

[runic knight]

Nerd culture is fine, and fairly open and enjoyable to those willing to enter it as members. Sure it has its share of assholes, same as, well, every other culture out there, but using that to judge the whole is not right.

Now funny enough the ones I hear talking the loudest about how toxic it is and what have you are also both the ones who refuse to actually join it as a culture and instead merely want it to cater to their personal views, and tend to be the more toxic and harmful ones in the first place. Willful outsides of the culture they look down on who still want to tell the members of it how to act and what to do. Shame so many of them managed to get jobs pretending to be relevant in the larger geek media. but lets examine this aspect of geek culture today by taking a look at similarities to the past.

A few years back, this was largely the "dudebro" segment, as the sudden infusing of fratboy type who previously wanted nothing to do with geek hobbies and than were seen as invading and changing the culture of nerds and geeks who had crafted it. Que expected backlash and usual growing pains as a culture deals with an influx of new people and ideas. Hell, considering many of those newly joining the gaming part of nerd culture were considered the enemies of those who created and molded it for decades, you have to expect conflict there. Think back, those of you older nerds out there, to the days of TechTv and G4 and the steady corporation of nerd culture and how the culture itself responded, sometime embracing, sometimes pushing back against the fakeness of it all. Fast forward and they are largely accepted as part of the culture by the majority just fine. I'd liken the whole thing similar to music going from underground to mainstream and the changes there. Can be a bit rough, but hey, culture adapts and grows like that, regardless which one.

Further back then that, there was conflict between gamers and nerd/geek culture. Surprising, but video game fans and players weren't always tied in with geek culture, with some wanting the separation, and others seeing the commonalities. The era of the "too cool" 90's games mashing against the fact that the largest segments of gamers were nerd and geeks created conflict and issue between the nerd culture and the growing gamer one.

The latest influx into geek culture is the social justice progressive. This seems to be a bit messier this time around, likely for a few reasons. First is that unlike the previous example of the dudebro, the changes that result from joining is not driven by them as consumers, but rather driven by them as activists. Where before changes that caused conflicts between the oldguard and the new were driven solely by financial repercussions of buying certain games (meaning some aspects of nerd culture changed far faster and far more severely than others as driven by profit of this new group merging with geek culture), the progressive one seems to be more blanket application of their views applied to all because of a political drive. You hit a wider swatch of the culture (in this case, all geek culture), you get a larger backlash (to say nothing of the issue of authoritarianism involved and nerd culture, particularly gaming culture, being very defensive about that sort of demagoguery). Sadly you must also add in opportunists and drama mongerers because this is the digital age and the internet allows the demagogues of the past to instantly monetize their outrage while hiding behind the skirts of the group they chameleon within. Shame that calling out the trouble makers and toxic elements of that particular group leads to excommunication of the nonbelievers, as I imagine the actual social progressive advocates being willing and able to call out and disarm the social justice warriors within their group would probably make the merging of the cultures far less conflict-causing.

Still, it will end the same. The groups will merge in some ways, but be separate in others, with the overlay largely the same as the overlays between various other sub-cultures.

Though after reading a couple posts I have to wonder about something. I see more than a few people claiming that nerd culture is some horrible thing, yet I have to wonder the extent of their interaction with it. Considering it comes from the same people who refuse to associate with it, and seem to enjoy shaming it or deriding it, I can't imagine they have a lot of real world experience with the communities that form from it, or if they do if it is not very quickly tainted by their negativity and scorn towards it. This in turn causing a confirmation bias in the same way a racist talking in slurs and stereotypes gets a negative response would see it as confirmation that his views are right. Add in that it would also mean that the majority of the interacting with that culture is online version of it, where "toxic" and "horrible" would be attributable to any and every culture interacted with because the internet is full of jerks, and it would make sense.

Myself though, I have seen the communities that formed from the culture as one of the most open, accepting and friendly ones. I've seen it accept people that other subcultures reject or ostracize simply because of solidarity in response to that sort of behavior. I've seen it celebrate and enjoy what it loves in a way that is truly amazing. Hearing people talk about geek culture as some great evil they need to be ashamed of really just makes me wonder if they were ever actually part of it in the first place, or just judging it from the outside all along.

 

[Jux]

When I was a kid, I didn't tell others about my nerdy hobbies because it wasn't cool (and my self esteem sucked pretty bad). Now I don't tell people about my nerdy hobbies because I'd rather not be tainted with the association of the toxic communities.

Plus ca change, eh?

Of course, now you're the "Social Justice Bard", and you're one of singers of the Ballad of Toxic Communities. Talk about "hoist by your own canard".

The saying is 'hoisted by ones own petard', which... doesn't really apply here. I haven't had anything blow up in my face fortunately, as the 'social justice community', if such a thing exists, is leagues less toxic than nerd culture.