Your video game hot take(s) thread

[Dalisclock]

My ongoing playthrough of the Dragon Age games brought one to mind. So in DAO, you have two companions who consider themselves pragmatic: Sten and Morrigan. Both of them believe in survival of the fittest and using the most direct approach to solve the problem at hand, notably the big ass ZombieOrc Horde ravaging the kingdom. In Morrigan, this manifests mostly in her bitching whenever you help anyone other then yourselves, whereas Sten gets really annoyed with your sidequesting if you bring him along because he feels like you're wasting time. And character wise, it works and makes sense. Hell, even in universe, it makes some sense because the horde is messing shit up offscreen while you're running around(One location eventually gets wiped from the map completely after a certain amount of plot has happened)

Where it runs into issues is from a meta/gameplay perspective, because you're playing an RPG and one where levels are precious(Level cap for the base game is 25 and you'll probably finish around Level 20 unless you're doing and killing Everything), EXP is limited and finite and there's no actual time limit(but there's one or two Points of No Return based on story progress). So as a game player, it's in your interest to do as much as possible to get stronger, get better gear, etc. So hearing Morrigan and Sten whining about wasting time doing side stuff can be fucking grating because trying to mainline would likely result if you all getting killed and everyone being completely fucked and creates a sense of story/gameplay separation because the sense of urgency is in no way enforced by gameplay mechanics. Hell, DAO in particular has an issue where IF you have a certain DLC, you get a storage chest for your excess shit....except the only way to access it is to hike up into the mountains to dump shit off in the chest....and thus every time you accrue enough stuff you think you might need later(this will happen quite often, BTW), you need to hike up there to dump stuff off, because how dare you have a storage container in your camp. Nope, time to waste time taking a weeklong side trip to drop off the chunk you can't carry and don't wish to sell, so Morrigan and Sten can cry that you're wasting time.

Arguably this is an issue with RPGs in general(Witcher 3 famously has you perpetually a week behind Ciri until you finally catch up with her, creating a false sense of Urgency) and FF7 has a giant world destroying meteor hanging in the sky for the last chunk of the game that doesn't do anything until the very end. It's just when your companions badger you about it gets obnoxious. It feels like the game devs trying to narratively chide you into getting on with it while at the same time making you spend more time then needed because the gameplay enforces it due to development choices. If you want me to RUSH to deal with the problem at hand, at least don't make me waste my time because there's no easier/faster way to do things.

 

[FakeSympathy]

My ongoing playthrough of the Dragon Age games brought one to mind. So in DAO, you have two companions who consider themselves pragmatic: Sten and Morrigan. Both of them believe in survival of the fittest and using the most direct approach to solve the problem at hand, notably the big ass ZombieOrc Horde ravaging the kingdom. In Morrigan, this manifests mostly in her bitching whenever you help anyone other then yourselves, whereas Sten gets really annoyed with your sidequesting if you bring him along because he feels like you're wasting time. And characterwise, it works and makes sense. Hell, even in universe, it makes some sense.

Where it runs into issues is from a meta/gameplay perspective, because you're playing an RPG and one where levels are precious(Level cap for the base game is 25 and you'll probably finish around Level 20 unless you're doing and killing Everything), EXP is limited and finite and there's no actual time limit(but there's one or two Points of No Return based on story progress). So as a game player, it's in your interest to do as much as possible to get stronger, get better gear, etc. So hearing Morrigan and Sten whining about wasting time doing side stuff can be fucking grating because trying to mainline would likely result if you all getting killed and everyone being completely fucked and creates a sense of story/gameplay separation because the sense of urgency is in no way enforced by gameplay mechanics.

Arguably this is an issue with RPGs in general(Witcher 3 famously has you perpetually a week behind Ciri until you finally catch up with her, creating a false sense of Urgency) and FF7 has a giant world destroying meteor hanging in the sky for the last chunk of the game that doesn't do anything until the very end. It's just when your companions badger you about it gets obnoxious.

Similar thing with almost every open-world games, especially Bethesda. Like, with so many things to do, your sense of urgency to find your son in FO4 or kill Alduin in Skyrim gets thrown out the window.

In Far Cry 3, all you friends are in danger of being sold as slaves, but you can sure take your sweet-ass time hunting animals and climbing towers.

I feel the only game where doing-whatever-the-fuck-i-want-whenever-i-want seemed to make sense was GTA 5 (single-player) due to the sheer amount of chaos the story has.

RDR2 is similar in this sense, but Arthur's condition is barely mentioned until later in the game.

 

[Dalisclock]

Similar thing with almost every open-world games, especially Bethesda. Like, with so many things to do, your sense of urgency to find your son in FO4 or kill Alduin in Skyrim gets thrown out the window.

In Far Cry 3, all you friends are in danger of being sold as slaves, but you can sure take your sweet-ass time hunting animals and climbing towers.

I feel the only game where doing-whatever-the-fuck-i-want-whenever-i-want seemed to make sense was GTA 5 (single-player) due to the sheer amount of chaos the story has.

RDR2 is similar in this sense, but Arthur's condition is barely mentioned until later in the game.

RDR2 I feel is a bit better about it because of that. For the first few chapters, you're more or less encouraged to take it slow and explore and there's not a ton pushing you forward. Even the pinkerton pursuit is more an abstract threat then anything else.

It's not until chapter 6 when you realize Arthur is sick that it kicks in and at that point the fact Arthur keeps having fits where he starts coughing up blood and your camp becomes downright miserable to hang out in that it really stops making sense to tarry doing open world stuff. it's not perfect for sure but it feels a lot less dissosent then a lot of other open world games.

 

[meiam]

My ongoing playthrough of the Dragon Age games brought one to mind. So in DAO, you have two companions who consider themselves pragmatic: Sten and Morrigan. Both of them believe in survival of the fittest and using the most direct approach to solve the problem at hand, notably the big ass ZombieOrc Horde ravaging the kingdom. In Morrigan, this manifests mostly in her bitching whenever you help anyone other then yourselves, whereas Sten gets really annoyed with your sidequesting if you bring him along because he feels like you're wasting time. And character wise, it works and makes sense. Hell, even in universe, it makes some sense because the horde is messing shit up offscreen while you're running around(One location eventually gets wiped from the map completely after a certain amount of plot has happened)

Where it runs into issues is from a meta/gameplay perspective, because you're playing an RPG and one where levels are precious(Level cap for the base game is 25 and you'll probably finish around Level 20 unless you're doing and killing Everything), EXP is limited and finite and there's no actual time limit(but there's one or two Points of No Return based on story progress). So as a game player, it's in your interest to do as much as possible to get stronger, get better gear, etc. So hearing Morrigan and Sten whining about wasting time doing side stuff can be fucking grating because trying to mainline would likely result if you all getting killed and everyone being completely fucked and creates a sense of story/gameplay separation because the sense of urgency is in no way enforced by gameplay mechanics. Hell, DAO in particular has an issue where IF you have a certain DLC, you get a storage chest for your excess shit....except the only way to access it is to hike up into the mountains to dump shit off in the chest....and thus every time you accrue enough stuff you think you might need later(this will happen quite often, BTW), you need to hike up there to dump stuff off, because how dare you have a storage container in your camp. Nope, time to waste time taking a weeklong side trip to drop off the chunk you can't carry and don't wish to sell, so Morrigan and Sten can cry that you're wasting time.

Arguably this is an issue with RPGs in general(Witcher 3 famously has you perpetually a week behind Ciri until you finally catch up with her, creating a false sense of Urgency) and FF7 has a giant world destroying meteor hanging in the sky for the last chunk of the game that doesn't do anything until the very end. It's just when your companions badger you about it gets obnoxious. It feels like the game devs trying to narratively chide you into getting on with it while at the same time making you spend more time then needed because the gameplay enforces it due to development choices. If you want me to RUSH to deal with the problem at hand, at least don't make me waste my time because there's no easier/faster way to do things.

Deus ex human revolution as a really annoying version of this. At the start of the game a terrorist took a bunch of hostage and is threatening to kill them, you need to hurry and save them but first need to pass by the office to fix something up. Now, this being a deus ex game, it open a giant level full of nook and cranny to be explored, the kind of player who like deus ex will probably spend quite a bit of time scrounging everything up, and as gamer were used to being told to hurry up when it doesn't matter in reality.

But then you get a message that you took so long, the terrorist executed some of the hostage! Well crap, better hurry up! Except once you are on location, you can take as long as you want and they won't execute any hostage. Also this is the only time in the entire game were there's a time limit like that.

 

[Dalisclock]

Deus ex human revolution as a really annoying version of this. At the start of the game a terrorist took a bunch of hostage and is threatening to kill them, you need to hurry and save them but first need to pass by the office to fix something up. Now, this being a deus ex game, it open a giant level full of nook and cranny to be explored, the kind of player who like deus ex will probably spend quite a bit of time scrounging everything up, and as gamer were used to being told to hurry up when it doesn't matter in reality.

But then you get a message that you took so long, the terrorist executed some of the hostage! Well crap, better hurry up! Except once you are on location, you can take as long as you want and they won't execute any hostage. Also this is the only time in the entire game were there's a time limit like that.

Oh, I remember that. Yeah, it's very obnoxious when the rules aren't consistent like that. A ticking clock on-screen is generally a great way to show "Hey, hurry the fuck up" or something to that effect. Even something like ME2 kinda works because it happens near the end of the game and probably don't have that much left to do at this point(though the fact you're locked in once you do the Reaper IFF mission).

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

No, we don't need a conversation. You are being a grump who doesn't like these games or a way a franchise is going, and are rushing through them, because there's "too many games" and both are "too long". Both Sonic Frontiers and Ragnarok have a tone that matches their respective game. Ragnarok even more so. So how about you never touch either franchise ever again? Especially Sonic.

​

I kind of feel like Yahtzee is trying to eat his cake and have it too. He's criticized characters like Halo's Master Chief (fairly, I might add) for being joyless one-dimensional characters, but at least they matched the tone of their games. Hardspace: Shipbreaker's protagonist is a complete blank slate, which makes it hard for them to not match the game's tone. (I've never played This War of Mine so I can offer no input there.)

 

[BrawlMan]

I kind of feel like Yahtzee is trying to eat his cake and have it too. He's criticized characters like Halo's Master Chief (fairly, I might add) for being joyless one-dimensional characters, but at least they matched the tone of their games. Hardspace: Shipbreaker's protagonist is a complete blank slate, which makes it hard for them to not match the game's tone. (I've never played This War of Mine so I can offer no input there.)

He's done this more times than the man ever cares to count. The dude complained about Issac "talking too much" in Dead Space 2. After spending half of the Dead Space 1 review complaining about him being a silent protagonist. Yahtzee better not even think about reviewing Dead Space Remake. Sonic has too much story! This Sonic game has too little story! Make up your fucking mind!

 

[Dalisclock]

He's done this more times than the man ever cares to count. The dude complained about Issac "talking too much" in Dead Space 2. After spending half of the Dead Space 1 review complaining about him being a silent protagonist. Yahtzee better not even think about reviewing Dead Space Remake. Sonic has too much story! This Sonic game has too little story! Make up your fucking mind!

I really enjoyed listening to Yathzee when he first appeared on the scene and would always make sure to watch ZP on Wednesdays as soon as I could. But I've slowly lost interest over time and I don't know if the humor has worn thin for me due to 15 years of it or I've drifted away from his columns and episodes over the years. Even the podcasts with him and Marty are mostly there for having something to listen to for an hour or so.

 

[BrawlMan]

I really enjoyed listening to Yathzee when he first appeared on the scene and would always make sure to watch ZP on Wednesdays as soon as I could. But I've slowly lost interest over time and I don't know if the humor has worn thin for me due to 15 years of it or I've drifted away from his columns and episodes over the years.

I got tired around 2014. I would still watch his stuff, but it wouldn't be every Wednesday, and there were times I would automatically not watch the video either because the game wasn't interesting to hear his pov, or I knew the review was going into a direction I would not like, nor have the patience for hearing. His petty hot-takes and take-thats towards MCU, Superheroes, and Star Wars (and their respective fans in general) was not helping. Him disliking the IPs weren't the problem. It was speaking for everyone claiming why "the world doesn't need Star Wars or Superhero".

Even before all that, there are videos of his I either disliked on the spot, or came to hate later on. The most notable examples being his review of Smash Bros. Brawl, Mad World, and The Force Unleashed II. Brawl was just him mad and taking out on the fans, because he hates and doesn't understand fighting games. His Mad World review was a 2-minute review that became a 5-minute biatch fit over the Wii not being powerful enough and how all motion controls sucks. The Force Unleashed II was him attacking SW fans in general, when before that point, they had done nothing to him as far as everyone else was concerned. He intentionally kicked the hornet's nest there. I have problems with toxic parts of fandom in general, but that wasn't Yahtzee's intent to begin with. He was just starting shit no different from your average forum troll or reddit user. Except I wasn't laughing, nor did I make excuses for unnecessary dick behavior. I was already tired of "angry" and condescending reviewing by 2012, and by the mid 2010s I would willingly not touch anyone still doing the practice. I am glad that type of reviewing has died, but angry grifting has taken its place. It's a good thing I am interested in none of that shit.

 

[thebobmaster]

My problem with Arin especially, but Game Grumps in general, is his/their tendency to ignore tutorials, and then blame the game when they don't understand how to do something. I remember Arin raving about how Mega Man X is a master class in game design because it doesn't teach you anything through pop-ups, but instead makes you learn on your own when confronted with an obstacle, and then I think of all the times he's complained on Game Grumps about the game not telling him how to do something because he scrolled through the explanation without reading it.

 

[Attaractor]

It seems to me that the charm of Elden Ring lies precisely in the fact that the player is"forced to do very little". This empty open world is created more for those who open the game for a kind of meditation. Why then was it necessary to create non-story bosses that repeat so often and are so easy to defeat? When I saw a post on https://zumroad.com/game that Elden Ring won the title of game of the year, I was surprised only by how many "lost" players around gave it their sympathies What can be said about our society, if we like worlds that take 200 hours to complete and make us suffer?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It seems to me that the charm of Elden Ring lies precisely in the fact that the player is"forced to do very little". This empty open world is created more for those who open the game for a kind of meditation. Why then was it necessary to create non-story bosses that repeat so often and are so easy to defeat? When I saw a post on https://zumroad.com/game that Elden Ring won the title of game of the year, I was surprised only by how many "lost" players around gave it their sympathies What can be said about our society, if we like worlds that take 200 hours to complete and make us suffer?

Repeating bosses are basically for loot variants. As in each location has at least one Erdtree avatar, hero’s grave, catacombs, dragon, etc. which yield crystal tears, ashes of war, spells, etc. A lot of it is dependent upon build types, so mileage will vary on usefulness from one player to the next. It’s the type of game designed more for tinkerers than those on a mission to just beat another game’s story mode. Especially since most of that is also something the player has to hunt for. So yeah, maybe masochistically meditative is a good way to describe it lol.

 

[BrawlMan]

Another Bayonetta 3 and Action game hot take. There is nothing wrong with having multiple weapons in these games. Why are certain critics complaining about this now? You're not forced to use every single weapon, nor expected to do so. You can still get through the game with the most basic or early weapons just fine, but it would get boring using the same ones over and over again. Not every action game needs to have 10-15+ weapons, but as long as they're fun to control and play, that is all that matters. You don't want to use them, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't act like it's a bad thing or make it sound worse than it actually is. No one complained about the multiple weapon types in DMC5 or even in DmC (aside from how they functioned was what the OG series main fan base's complaint). What makes Bayonetta 3 so special for this to be a complaint? I will say that having to re-unlock launcher and stinger moves for each weapon is stupid. If you been playing well and doing all the challenges and verses though, you can unlock them easy, and the moves are pretty cheap to purchase.

 

[Worgen]

Life Force is better then Gradius.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Life Force is better then Gradius.

That's not a hot take, that's just spittin' straight facts.

 

[Dalisclock]

Life Force is better then Gradius.

Yes. Yes Indeed.

*Quickly looks up what Life Force is*

I will take your word for it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Life Force is better then Gradius.

That's not a hot take, that's just spittin' straight facts.

Either of you played Abadox? I consider it the best SHMUP on NES for gruesomeness alone and gore. They got away with so much in that game on either version. The worst the NES version got was some censorship of female nudity. That was it. Though the story is much darker in the Japanese version.

Speaking of SHMUPs, a lot of them on T-16/PC-Engine (CD) make the SHMUPS on SNES and Genesis look like jokes. Especially the console's vertical shooters. Soldier Blade, Lords of Thunder (horizontal shooter), Seirei Senshi Spriggan, and Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire I consider the best exclusives the console had to offer that wasn't port of an arcade game.

 

[Dalisclock]

Either of you played Abadox? I consider it the best SHMUP on NES for gruesomeness alone and gore. They got away with so much in that game on either version. The worst the NES version got was some censorship of female nudity. That was it. Though the story is much darker in the Japanese version.

Speaking of SHMUPs, a lot of them on T-16/PC-Engine (CD) make the SHMUPS on SNES and Genesis look like jokes. Especially the console's vertical shooters. Soldier Blade, Lords of Thunder (horizontal shooter), Seirei Senshi Spriggan, and Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire I consider the best exclusives the console had to offer that wasn't port of an arcade game.

Abadox I actually remember and remember enjoying.

 

[BrawlMan]

Abadox I actually remember and remember enjoying.

Seriously, how did they get away so much back then? The censor were either mostly asleep or didn't care. With no ESRB existing yet. The game is still creepy and scary in certain sections, even by modern standards.

 

[Dalisclock]

Seriously, how did they get away so much back then? The censor were either mostly asleep or didn't care. With no ESRB existing yet. The game is still creepy and scary in certain sections, even by modern standards.

I was reading up on it just now and man I kinda forgot how messed up it could be. And the Japanese version of the story was much darker.