Your video game hot take(s) thread

Bob_McMillan

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Yahtzee had me thinking of Deathloop and Redfall. And after a quick YouTube search, Dishonored 2.

I always thought Deathloop looked like an especially shitty game from a graphics standpoint, and Redfall elicited the same reaction from me. After this EP video, I think I was able to nail down why I had this reaction. Both games are this bizzare middle ground between the cartoonish art style and photorealistic graphics. The result is you get the worst of both worlds. Character models look silly and honestly just kind of low effort, like it was a first pass at 3D modeling. But then the game world also feels lifeless, when it's so disconnected from the entities living in it.

I had a look at some Dishonored 2 gameplay, and while I don't think it's as bad, I still got a small sense of the uncanny valley. I had to go all the way back to Dishonored 1 to get the feeling that the game's art style was consistent. And it's ironic, immersive sims would definitely benefit from dedicating less effort to graphics and instead just having even MORE stuff to do.

Admittedly, I've only played Dishonored 1, so take this with a grain of salt since I'm coming from a YouTube viewer's perspective.
 

thebobmaster

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Yahtzee had me thinking of Deathloop and Redfall. And after a quick YouTube search, Dishonored 2.

I always thought Deathloop looked like an especially shitty game from a graphics standpoint, and Redfall elicited the same reaction from me. After this EP video, I think I was able to nail down why I had this reaction. Both games are this bizzare middle ground between the cartoonish art style and photorealistic graphics. The result is you get the worst of both worlds. Character models look silly and honestly just kind of low effort, like it was a first pass at 3D modeling. But then the game world also feels lifeless, when it's so disconnected from the entities living in it.

I had a look at some Dishonored 2 gameplay, and while I don't think it's as bad, I still got a small sense of the uncanny valley. I had to go all the way back to Dishonored 1 to get the feeling that the game's art style was consistent. And it's ironic, immersive sims would definitely benefit from dedicating less effort to graphics and instead just having even MORE stuff to do.

Admittedly, I've only played Dishonored 1, so take this with a grain of salt since I'm coming from a YouTube viewer's perspective.
That's why I always thing games should aim for aesthetics over graphics. Being realistic is fine...but you have to have your own style as well, not just realism for realism's sake. It's why, IMO, Wind Waker has aged so much better than Twilight Princess visually, for example, or why many sprite-based games hold up more than early 3D.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Another hot take regarding delayed development, especially indie crowdfunded stuff: backers and fans will always float that one quote from Shigeru, 5 to 10 years into the prolapsed stagnation of a project, about how "delayed games can be good but a rushed game is always bad".

Never mind that quote in the 90s applied to a very different industry (one where studios didn't get to tinker and patch finished product and indie development didn't really exist beyond what, early LAN era modding communities?). Take away that shitty F2P mobile runner with the Mario name on it and Shigeru Miyamoto hasn't actually directed a videogame since Super Mario 64, 1996. And before that it was 1988. Go down his list of directed works and he never spent more than 2 years directing any one game. Power to him and the Nintendo workforce but when a couple of schmucks with a Kickstarter invoke that quote to excuse years and years of silence and mismanagement... yeah, how about a refund.
 

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It's why, IMO, Wind Waker has aged so much better than Twilight Princess visually, for example, or why many sprite-based games hold up more than early 3D.
I'd say both aged well visually. Yes, TP is more realistic in comparison to WW, but still has its own identity and art style. They've both aged better than a majority of games that went full on crazy with "realism". Most sprite games, 3D games with a cartoony/anime art style, or a majority cel-shaded games age better than realistic looking games. Jet Set Radio & Future, Gungrave, Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7, No More Heroes, Mad World, etc. I can go on all day. Games like Streets of Rage 4 and The TakeOver look and age better than many 7th, 8th, or current generation games.

Yahtzee had me thinking of Deathloop and Redfall. And after a quick YouTube search, Dishonored 2.

I always thought Deathloop looked like an especially shitty game from a graphics standpoint, and Redfall elicited the same reaction from me. After this EP video, I think I was able to nail down why I had this reaction. Both games are this bizzare middle ground between the cartoonish art style and photorealistic graphics. The result is you get the worst of both worlds. Character models look silly and honestly just kind of low effort, like it was a first pass at 3D modeling. But then the game world also feels lifeless, when it's so disconnected from the entities living in it.


I had a look at some Dishonored 2 gameplay, and while I don't think it's as bad, I still got a small sense of the uncanny valley. I had to go all the way back to Dishonored 1 to get the feeling that the game's art style was consistent. And it's ironic, immersive sims would definitely benefit from dedicating less effort to graphics and instead just having even MORE stuff to do.

Admittedly, I've only played Dishonored 1, so take this with a grain of salt since I'm coming from a YouTube viewer's perspective.
I can't remember much of D2, but D1 definitely has a more consistent art style. As much as I don't like the way the game handles endings, it does have a better look.

Most old arcade games are P2W. The only reason I am putting this down is because a lot of gamers from the old-school era would rather bite their tongue than admit it. Tell'em Max!

 
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Dalisclock

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Another hot take regarding delayed development, especially indie crowdfunded stuff: backers and fans will always float that one quote from Shigeru, 5 to 10 years into the prolapsed stagnation of a project, about how "delayed games can be good but a rushed game is always bad".

Never mind that quote in the 90s applied to a very different industry (one where studios didn't get to tinker and patch finished product and indie development didn't really exist beyond what, early LAN era modding communities?). Take away that shitty F2P mobile runner with the Mario name on it and Shigeru Miyamoto hasn't actually directed a videogame since Super Mario 64, 1996. And before that it was 1988. Go down his list of directed works and he never spent more than 2 years directing any one game. Power to him and the Nintendo workforce but when a couple of schmucks with a Kickstarter invoke that quote to excuse years and years of silence and mismanagement... yeah, how about a refund.
I'd make the argument that the longer a game spends in development hell, the less likely it is to be actually worth the wait when it's actually out. At some point, we're not talking about polishing and fine tuning, we're talking about a very troubled development cycle where they've probably rebooted it numerous times and switched out the leads at least once. Sure, there are games that take forever to come out and are worth it when they do, but those are the exception rather then the rule.
 

Chimpzy

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Honestly, I'd go with the original, because cell-shading makes everything so much more vibrant. Especially if we are using an emulator.
I agree. Original Wind Waker at high res and a bunch of anti-aliasing on a good screen looks super crisp and intensely vivid (that's top right).
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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I'd make the argument that the longer a game spends in development hell, the less likely it is to be actually worth the wait when it's actually out. At some point, we're not talking about polishing and fine tuning, we're talking about a very troubled development cycle where they've probably rebooted it numerous times and switched out the leads at least once. Sure, there are games that take forever to come out and are worth it when they do, but those are the exception rather then the rule.
That was my point in an earlier post. It's not just hype getting exponentially out of hand the longer the wait extends. Hype I can deal with. But sometimes a way-too-long development time is a detriment to your videogame, especially an independent one. And the Silksong development cycle (sorry for the redirect) has ALL the marks of an overproduced, overfinanced, overcooked mess.

  • Feature Creep. You add and expand to the initial design past the point where it becomes bloated, inelegant and overcomplicated in an effort to meet expectations. And Silksong was basically born from feature creep - it was initially pitched as free DLC, and 2 years in was announced as an actual sequel. So it's in the nature of the project to grow beyond projection. "It's gotten quite big," like the PR dude tweeted recently. Only excuse so far for delays 6 years into development.
  • No accountability. Team Cherry is in a position where they have no publishers or backers to answer to. Silksong is independently funded, but it's also not crowdfunded. It's born from the success of earlier crowdfunding, back when the studio had someone to answer to (not that it's mattered to shittier Kickstarters). With newfound wealth and no strings attached there's no pressure to deliver. It'll be out when it's out.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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It’s the catch-22 of Kickstarters, and the idea of being beholden to your backers to deliver on whatever is mentioned publicly. Silksong sounds like one of those games whose biggest problem might end up just being announced way too early. I mean, it doesn’t help that it started as mere DLC and they announced it on fucking Valentines Day of all days, ten days shy of two years after the first game releasing. This is a young, very small and eager team that had a big success right out of the gate, and might’ve gotten a bit ahead of themselves. Something that can only be remedied by a lot more experience with releasing games in this insane industry.

In May 2022, Hollow Knight: Silksong won a "Most Anticipated Game" award from Unity. In response, Team Cherry thanked the community for their support and said "It can't be too much longer, surely!"

They wouldn’t have had to deal with this self-inflicted added pressure if they announced the game like say, that year.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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In May 2022, Hollow Knight: Silksong won a "Most Anticipated Game" award from Unity. In response, Team Cherry thanked the community for their support and said "It can't be too much longer, surely!"

They wouldn’t have had to deal with this self-inflicted added pressure if they announced the game like say, that year.
The irony is that on June 2022 they did announce - or let it be announced - that the game would be out "in the next 12 months". And then they waited 11 months to finally, officially confirm that initial pledge - and that they wouldn't be able to fulfill it. No new release window offered either. Nothing. Just blanket handwaves about how excited they are about feature creep.

Obviously they've handled the whole thing horribly. I have to assume they restarted development a few times due to feature creep or some kind of BTS drama. How long do you need to make a 2D platformer on Unity? Especially if you're piggybacking off a game you already released.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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The irony is that on June 2022 they did announce - or let it be announced - that the game would be out "in the next 12 months". And then they waited 11 months to finally, officially confirm that initial pledge - and that they wouldn't be able to fulfill it. No new release window offered either. Nothing. Just blanket handwaves about how excited they are about feature creep.

Obviously they've handled the whole thing horribly. I have to assume they restarted development a few times due to feature creep or some kind of BTS drama. How long do you need to make a 2D platformer on Unity? Especially if you're piggybacking off a game you already released.
By now they’re probably 100% using Hollow Knight’s earnings for this, or is Silksong still getting Kickstarter funding? Yeah every PR bit they put out sounds like they are kinda like kids in a candy store with this, and there needs to be a parent to say “when”. Irony might be HK’s huge success might be ultimately working against them here, as they are kinda off the leash with a bunch of cash now.
 

Drathnoxis

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By now they’re probably 100% using Hollow Knight’s earnings for this, or is Silksong still getting Kickstarter funding? Yeah every PR bit they put out sounds like they are kinda like kids in a candy store with this, and there needs to be a parent to say “when”. Irony might be HK’s huge success might be ultimately working against them here, as they are kinda off the leash with a bunch of cash now.
Yeah, "you have the funding to do this full time and no deadline to do it in" sounds like something that would make a high quality product, but more often than not is a trap. I've seen it happen a bunch with patreon. A content creator gets a surge of funding and decides that they can quit their job and do this full time, and they are going to make more and better videos, and then their output completely dries up.
 

meiam

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Yeah, "you have the funding to do this full time and no deadline to do it in" sounds like something that would make a high quality product, but more often than not is a trap. I've seen it happen a bunch with patreon. A content creator gets a surge of funding and decides that they can quit their job and do this full time, and they are going to make more and better videos, and then their output completely dries up.
Yeah I've had quite a few creator I was following just die after they launched a patreon or get a big kickstarter success. For a few of them it works, but in most case that I followed before and after it didn't increase productivity and very often dropped it, in the absolute best case scenario they'll increase their quality a little bit but will drop productivity like a brick. But so many decide to tackle really big project, probably lose motivation partway trough and release some halfbaked video in the middle to justify existing. This usually cycle a few time until they have to start begging people to keep subscribing or release they're big project in completely broken/unfinished state with some sort of "hey if you pay me more maybe I'll fix it".
 

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I am happy for the success of Panzer Dragoon and House of the Dead 1 Remakes, but we need more rail shooters that aren't stuck to PSVR and Oculus. They're putting already niche genres on an even more niche and expensive systems.
 

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There is nothing inherently wrong about melee action games/brawlers with "one button" combat. Not every action games needs a Light and Heavy Attack combo. Look at games like No More Heroes 1 & 2 (III adds in L&H ATKs), Killer Is Dead, or even the first Devil May Cry. While these types of games may be more simplified in comparison to DMC, Bayonetta, NG, or even God of War (both eras in some cases), that doesn't mean they lack mechanical depth or complexity. KiD has an attack button, a block/parry button, and a charge-stun and guard breaker button. Mondo's attacks can be upgraded to either cover greater distances or gives him new moves. Even his charge attacks can be upgraded and has an upgrade where if you counter an enemy, he'll perform a power geyser lift said enemy or anyone around it straight in the air for Mondo to wail on!

These mechanics come from somewhere and mutate from each other. Back in the arcade days and the 80s to 90s console era, many 2D brawlers have an attack button and jump button. That's it; the designers got creative and allowed players with direction inputs to pull off different moves, canned combos, and those will multiple playable characters (that weren't lazy/limited color swaps) all played and look completely different. There's a reason why Streets of Rage 2 still gets so much love. It already built off a decent combat system from its prequel. Back attack, tag-team throws, and vaulting over any a mook. The sequel did more. They added health draining moves to button that has two different inputs: neutral and forward direction. The Blitz Attacks do the same thing, minus the health draining.

Ninja Warriors (1994 SNES Remake) may have only two attack buttons and is on a single plan, but the genius lunatics at Natsume managed to have all three characters have their own inputs and Street Fighter style commands. Each character even have their own hidden moves the player has to figure out on their own. They can all block too by holding the attack button. The remake to the remake, Ninja Warriors Once Again (Ninja Saviors) take this even further with giving each character EX attacks, new juggle moves, and with even certain characters pulling off air combos!

This stems from Serpahim17 back in the early 2010s when he mentioned El Shaddai in one of his walkthroughs and how didn't like the game, because of its "one button" combat, and how any game like that is "too simple". I'm not the biggest fan of the game either, but that is not always the case, and is ignorant to say. You may not like it, but others do and can see the mechanical depth. Once again, not everything needs to be exactly like DMC or the other high caliber action games.
 
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Drathnoxis

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Can someone explain the Touhou fandom to me? I still don't understand it. So the games are all nearly identical bullet hell shooters and character interactions all consist of a couple short barely coherent sentences, and yet it's spawned this massive rabid fandom of people creating fan art, stories, and animation about these cardboard cutout characters. Why? I really don't get it. I'll admit that I've only played Touhou 6 and never managed to get a good ending (no continues), but I've glanced at some of the later games on youtube and they all seem to be pretty much the same thing. The music is really good, though.
 

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Can someone explain the Touhou fandom to me? I still don't understand it. So the games are all nearly identical bullet hell shooters and character interactions all consist of a couple short barely coherent sentences, and yet it's spawned this massive rabid fandom of people creating fan art, stories, and animation about these cardboard cutout characters. Why? I really don't get it. I'll admit that I've only played Touhou 6 and never managed to get a good ending (no continues), but I've glanced at some of the later games on youtube and they all seem to be pretty much the same thing. The music is really good, though.
People like cute-moe-blob shit. It's not that complex. I do know fans love the lore, and love making their own interactions with the characters based on either they're backstories and personalities. I never played any of the games, but I got why people enjoyed characters. If I need games with kick-ass cute or hot looking anime women, I got plenty of other options.

A new Turok is long over due. With all of these Doom, Blood, Duke, or Quake style shooters out now, there is no reason not to do so.

No jump button aside, Supplice is looking to be more interesting and lengthy than Prodeus. Prodeus is a good game, but ends too quickly and abrupt. Final boss is ass too.