zerg comparrison sc1 and sc2

[dawdarsd]

the zerglings in sc2 look nothing like they did in the first game oh and they had arms in the first game,theyre head was pointy and they had red eyes , the overlords have changed also now they have 6 green eyes instead of two red eyes,the lurker even lost it's "hydralisk like face"
the ultralisk bugged me even more they had a gasmask like face http://classic.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/ultralisk.shtml i always thought that the face is emerging from the ultralisk's mouth for some reason what do you think?

 

[Altorin]

zerg are all about evolution, naturally the units would look a little different

what's more interesting is how they play differently, but you haven't really opened the floor up to that.

 

[blankedboy]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

 

[Altorin]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

If that is actually true, then it will be fixed in a patch. Balance is the keystone of Starcraft's success.

 

[DarkDain]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

If that is actually true, then it will be fixed in a patch. Balance is the keystone of Starcraft's success.

Yeah im on the forum right now, been keeping up with the war. Basically the debate is as uphill as ZvT is in the game itself. Terrans call it QQ and say its fine (cuz sc1 was totally balanced when it was first released riiiight?) Someone made a wonderful post though composing all the best logical arguments and gameplay issues from all over the forum, remarks from many professional starcraft players and even a neat korean poll showing the mass zerg exodus into terran. Only a couple terrans have attempted the 'QQ more l2p the pros are nubs' defense in that thread. the war continues u.u

 

[Nouw]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

What do you mean by Turrets? If you mean the Turrets from the Raven, that's quite further up in the Tech Tree, an easy Zergling Mass in the early course of the game should incinerate the Marines or whatever they have.

That is why you should make a balanced army. Include Roaches, they can kick ass if used well.

But then again, I am Terran!

Zerg do evolve so that would be logical but I see your point. In the Cinematics they look like Mini-Hydralisks and in the game they look completely different.

 

[rockingnic]

I just don't like how the air units suck compared to the terran or protoss, I only get them if I'm being assaulted by units that can only attack ground. I miss the lurker completely because I use to use all the time for defense, now the zerg seem to be all offense and even that they suck at. The only units worth using are the hydras and the roaches. The thing I miss the most are the unit medics because I don't want to spend two or three times the resources to get a medivac which needs an scv to repair just so it can heal one unit at a time. Also you have to wait to build a starport instead of just upgrading your barracks. The medic was great and useful in campaign but the medivac is useless compared to it for support healing.

 

[Meteor4118]

I play zerg, all the time, Though I generally play 2v2's and the only strategy I've yet to find does not work AT ALL, though is very fun, Is Massing infestors. My opponent, did not expect me to rush those lol. Early Pool (Generally 6 Drone Spawning Pool, Or 7 Drone Spawning pool) is the fastest 6 unit rush in the game, Meaning you can have 6 zerglings, plus a queen in the time it takes your opponent to build 2 zealots (if they're expecting you) Yes Terrans can wall, but guess what, they made that into THE terran strat by giving supply depots the ability to Rise or lower. If you play to the counters You can generally win any game, but if you don't pay attention, and use the 3/4 Scouting units zerg have, You're not gonna get anywhere. Protoss have observers, We have Overseers/Changlings, Roaches/ and Infestors, All of these units in addition to any unit that can burrow can easily be sent into an opposing players base. My favorite strategy, is to send an early overseer into their base and nydus worm in, Works like a charm on those walling Terran players who can't understand the basics of base defense.

 

[blankedboy]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

What do you mean by Turrets? If you mean the Turrets from the Raven, that's quite further up in the Tech Tree, an easy Zergling Mass in the early course of the game should incinerate the Marines or whatever they have.

That is why you should make a balanced army. Include Roaches, they can kick ass if used well.

By turrets, I mean sunken/spore colonies, bunkers, photon cannons, pretty much any building that can attack.

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

If that is actually true, then it will be fixed in a patch. Balance is the keystone of Starcraft's success.

That's the problem. Blizzard tried to make it balanced, but Zerg are only effective if the opponent doesn't have some better-than-poor defense in their base. By the time you can amass a huge swarm, their defense will be good enough to completely destroy the attack.

 

[DarkDain]

I just don't like how the air units suck compared to the terran or protoss, I only get them if I'm being assaulted by units that can only attack ground. I miss the lurker completely because I use to use all the time for defense, now the zerg seem to be all offense and even that they suck at. The only units worth using are the hydras and the roaches. The thing I miss the most are the unit medics because I don't want to spend two or three times the resources to get a medivac which needs an scv to repair just so it can heal one unit at a time. Also you have to wait to build a starport instead of just upgrading your barracks. The medic was great and useful in campaign but the medivac is useless compared to it for support healing.

*SMACK* SIN! Medivacs only need repaired if they're targeted, which is good, makes your ground force clean up the enemy easier. One of the BEST things about MMM (marine marauder and medivac) is the mobility, having enough medivacs you can pick up your entire force and drop them wherever, hit your stimpack and snipe buildings in seconds. I'd like to see a medic carry a thor u.u

 

[Agayek]

That's the problem. Blizzard tried to make it balanced, but Zerg are only effective if the opponent doesn't have some better-than-poor defense in their base. By the time you can amass a huge swarm, their defense will be good enough to completely destroy the attack.

Build faster.

That's literally how the Zerg counter base defense. If they build defense structures, they're lacking in units. Come in while they're defenses are building and you will tear through their base.

 

[DarkDain]

I play zerg, all the time, Though I generally play 2v2's and the only strategy I've yet to find does not work AT ALL, though is very fun, Is Massing infestors. My opponent, did not expect me to rush those lol. Early Pool (Generally 6 Drone Spawning Pool, Or 7 Drone Spawning pool) is the fastest 6 unit rush in the game, Meaning you can have 6 zerglings, plus a queen in the time it takes your opponent to build 2 zealots (if they're expecting you) Yes Terrans can wall, but guess what, they made that into THE terran strat by giving supply depots the ability to Rise or lower. If you play to the counters You can generally win any game, but if you don't pay attention, and use the 3/4 Scouting units zerg have, You're not gonna get anywhere. Protoss have observers, We have Overseers/Changlings, Roaches/ and Infestors, All of these units in addition to any unit that can burrow can easily be sent into an opposing players base. My favorite strategy, is to send an early overseer into their base and nydus worm in, Works like a charm on those walling Terran players who can't understand the basics of base defense.

This is all well and good, except that i kinda beat a terran once with mass infestors lol, so many infested terran in his base... Infestors have mixed reviews, people miss defilers though. (personally i love infested terran and fumble) As for your strategies, they're fine against beginners, there is actually a challenge mission for killing the zergling rush with your workers though which will cripple you more than them. As many players have pointed out about nydus worms, they arnt good on any decent player, even SCV's can cut them down before they come up. A single patrolling tank or marauder nullifies them and 1 missile tower on a choke puts an end to all burrowed unit sneak attacks. The other day i found out a single bunker can withstand a 30 zergling assault coming from a nydus worm, they exit too slow ._. gah im posting here alot now. SC2 forums are slow.

 

[Flying-Emu]

I can't believe Blizzard made the Zerg even less powerful than in the first game.
Massing Zerglings never works if the opponent has some turrets or Seige tanks, Hydralisks never work if they have any decent anti-ground units, Mutas never work if they have halfway-decent air defense, and Ultras just take too long to get.

All the opponent needs is some measley all-round defense, then the Zerg team is fucked.

False.

So very false.

The Terran strategy in the US leagues revolves almost 100% around building a massive defensive wall and then using MMM balls to mop up. What will a skilled Zerg player do? Fast expand. Expand. Expand. Expand. There is no sure-fire way to beat ANYBODY as the Zerg, which is why I play as them.

Also, contrary to popular belief, MMM balls are easy to defeat, provided you have the slightest amount of microing skills.

Burrowed Banelings create a minefield, and are therefore your friends.

 

[Flying-Emu]

I play zerg, all the time, Though I generally play 2v2's and the only strategy I've yet to find does not work AT ALL, though is very fun, Is Massing infestors. My opponent, did not expect me to rush those lol. Early Pool (Generally 6 Drone Spawning Pool, Or 7 Drone Spawning pool) is the fastest 6 unit rush in the game, Meaning you can have 6 zerglings, plus a queen in the time it takes your opponent to build 2 zealots (if they're expecting you) Yes Terrans can wall, but guess what, they made that into THE terran strat by giving supply depots the ability to Rise or lower. If you play to the counters You can generally win any game, but if you don't pay attention, and use the 3/4 Scouting units zerg have, You're not gonna get anywhere. Protoss have observers, We have Overseers/Changlings, Roaches/ and Infestors, All of these units in addition to any unit that can burrow can easily be sent into an opposing players base. My favorite strategy, is to send an early overseer into their base and nydus worm in, Works like a charm on those walling Terran players who can't understand the basics of base defense.

This is all well and good, except that i kinda beat a terran once with mass infestors lol, so many infested terran in his base... Infestors have mixed reviews, people miss defilers though. (personally i love infested terran and fumble) As for your strategies, they're fine against beginners, there is actually a challenge mission for killing the zergling rush with your workers though which will cripple you more than them. As many players have pointed out about nydus worms, they arnt good on any decent player, even SCV's can cut them down before they come up. A single patrolling tank or marauder nullifies them and 1 missile tower on a choke puts an end to all burrowed unit sneak attacks. The other day i found out a single bunker can withstand a 30 zergling assault coming from a nydus worm, they exit too slow ._. gah im posting here alot now. SC2 forums are slow.

Zerglings are harrying units. Using them as a frontal base assault is similar to using Phoenix to kill Hydras: It's stupid and it will not work at all. There's a reason Zerglings are even still in the game, and that reason is BANELINGS.

 

[rockingnic]

I just don't like how the air units suck compared to the terran or protoss, I only get them if I'm being assaulted by units that can only attack ground. I miss the lurker completely because I use to use all the time for defense, now the zerg seem to be all offense and even that they suck at. The only units worth using are the hydras and the roaches. The thing I miss the most are the unit medics because I don't want to spend two or three times the resources to get a medivac which needs an scv to repair just so it can heal one unit at a time. Also you have to wait to build a starport instead of just upgrading your barracks. The medic was great and useful in campaign but the medivac is useless compared to it for support healing.

*SMACK* SIN! Medivacs only need repaired if they're targeted, which is good, makes your ground force clean up the enemy easier. One of the BEST things about MMM (marine marauder and medivac) is the mobility, having enough medivacs you can pick up your entire force and drop them wherever, hit your stimpack and snipe buildings in seconds. I'd like to see a medic carry a thor u.u

Yeah that works if you're fightingor a computer where they don't have a thought of taking down the medivacs first and whiping you ass with the floor with a couple upgraded colossi, swarms zerg (that you might have a chance) or hit you with seiiige tanks or anything else. Plus medivacs don't heale fast enough to allow most of your forces to survive on engagement of simar sized forces unless you have at least one for every two infentry unitc.

 

[DarkDain]

I play zerg, all the time, Though I generally play 2v2's and the only strategy I've yet to find does not work AT ALL, though is very fun, Is Massing infestors. My opponent, did not expect me to rush those lol. Early Pool (Generally 6 Drone Spawning Pool, Or 7 Drone Spawning pool) is the fastest 6 unit rush in the game, Meaning you can have 6 zerglings, plus a queen in the time it takes your opponent to build 2 zealots (if they're expecting you) Yes Terrans can wall, but guess what, they made that into THE terran strat by giving supply depots the ability to Rise or lower. If you play to the counters You can generally win any game, but if you don't pay attention, and use the 3/4 Scouting units zerg have, You're not gonna get anywhere. Protoss have observers, We have Overseers/Changlings, Roaches/ and Infestors, All of these units in addition to any unit that can burrow can easily be sent into an opposing players base. My favorite strategy, is to send an early overseer into their base and nydus worm in, Works like a charm on those walling Terran players who can't understand the basics of base defense.

This is all well and good, except that i kinda beat a terran once with mass infestors lol, so many infested terran in his base... Infestors have mixed reviews, people miss defilers though. (personally i love infested terran and fumble) As for your strategies, they're fine against beginners, there is actually a challenge mission for killing the zergling rush with your workers though which will cripple you more than them. As many players have pointed out about nydus worms, they arnt good on any decent player, even SCV's can cut them down before they come up. A single patrolling tank or marauder nullifies them and 1 missile tower on a choke puts an end to all burrowed unit sneak attacks. The other day i found out a single bunker can withstand a 30 zergling assault coming from a nydus worm, they exit too slow ._. gah im posting here alot now. SC2 forums are slow.

Zerglings are harrying units. Using them as a frontal base assault is similar to using Phoenix to kill Hydras: It's stupid and it will not work at all. There's a reason Zerglings are even still in the game, and that reason is BANELINGS.

Hehe actually seen phoenix own hydra en mass before, they have to outnumber them of course but they're losses will be very small. Zergling used to be great VS buildings in sc1, but bunkers have gained bonuses since then. Also it was back entrance, single bunker holding off a horde, reminds me of a flash game.

 

[DarkDain]

Yeah that works if you're fighting a brain dead veggie or a computer where they don't have a thought of taking down the medivacs first and whiping you ass with the floor with a couple upgraded colossi, swarms zerg (that you might have a chance) or hit you with seige tanks or anything else. Plus medivacs don't heal fast enough to allow most of your forces to survive one engagement of similar sized forces unless you have at least one for every two infantry units.

Or like... in many professional league games. Because stimmed M&M can tear a building down in seconds, like i said, and then just leave. They are are strong and fast army and harass team. Your examples are basically comparing them to hard counter armies of larger size. Its mostly about moving the army around and healing them after stimpack, more than keeping them alive in a huge battle. But marines are only mineral, its worth it easily.

 

[Flying-Emu]

Hehe actually seen phoenix own hydra en mass before, they have to outnumber them of course but they're losses will be very small. Zergling used to be great VS buildings in sc1, but bunkers have gained bonuses since then. Also it was back entrance, single bunker holding off a horde, reminds me of a flash game.

-_-

Then whoever was playing the Zerg had no idea what he was doing. All you have to do is quick ID the Phoenix that is holding the Hydra aloft, concentrate fire on him, wash rinse repeat.

Besides, if a Zerg player is out-massed, he's doing something either very odd or very wrong.