Zero Punctuation: Bayonetta 2 - Sheer Joyful Energy

shintakie10

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Haru17 said:
Evonisia said:
Haru17 said:
And I find it kind of pathetic that Yahtzee has to knock games for taking themselves seriously. I mean, Dark Souls takes itself SO seriously, but is never critiqued for it (but that game doesn't have much work put into a sequence of cutscenes that tell a story, so it must be some sort of narrative revolution, I guess).

Knocking games that earn their serious tone through character development and world building, like The Last of Us and Shadow of Mordor, is really profoundly unfair. Not everyone wants to be a jokey action-adventure romp, even if the Tomb Raider reboot might have benefited from doing so. Just stop giving games shit for having the tone they choose if they pull it off reasonable.
I think what Yahtzee is trying to say when he complains about the brood factor is that he doesn't think those games have done it right. He said that the main character of Shadow of Mordor was completely generic, hence why should he care when he's delving into a tone that is at this point a massive cliché. He didn't like the main characters of The Last of Us, either.

He has liked unbelievably grim video games such as Limbo, Amnesia, Spec Ops: The Line, Batman: Arkham Asylum and City, FarCry 3 (the rather depressing character building part) and Silent Hills 1, 2, 3, 4, Shattered Memories and Downpour.
Very well, but as important as original writing is execution and Shadow of Mordor really leaned into the whole dead family thing. Except the ending, that entire game shows how exhausted Talion was and how he just wanted to die and meet his family again in Tolkein heaven.

And I really can't forgive such a negative review of the Last of Us, purely because it told an unhappy story via cutscenes. I mean, it's basically the best video game story of it's kind and he shat all over it for being sad, like real life is such a fucking joyride.
In order for the dead family bit to hold any sort of emotional weight to it you had to actually give a damn about either the family or Talion. The game killed off the family as soon as it was introduced and Talion never does anythin remotely worth giving a damn about. The game told us how sad and depressed he was and how we should feel sorry for him, but it never gives us a reason to outside of the fact that somethin bad happened to him.

You make a person care about a character by making us care about the character. You don't make use care about a character simply because you tell us to care about them.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Caramel Frappe said:
.. Sorry if I sound dumb but- I cannot tell if Yahtzee liked Bayonetta 2 or not.
Mixed. He liked the first game but calls the second a "bad sequel" for copy-pasting levels not doing anything very new. You might say he's OK with it but overall disappointed. Rank 5 in his GOTY list, tops.

He seemed more critical of the Wii U itself: 1) 30 minute updates and 2) awkward controller.
 

Haru17

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shintakie10 said:
Haru17 said:
Evonisia said:
Haru17 said:
And I find it kind of pathetic that Yahtzee has to knock games for taking themselves seriously. I mean, Dark Souls takes itself SO seriously, but is never critiqued for it (but that game doesn't have much work put into a sequence of cutscenes that tell a story, so it must be some sort of narrative revolution, I guess).

Knocking games that earn their serious tone through character development and world building, like The Last of Us and Shadow of Mordor, is really profoundly unfair. Not everyone wants to be a jokey action-adventure romp, even if the Tomb Raider reboot might have benefited from doing so. Just stop giving games shit for having the tone they choose if they pull it off reasonable.
I think what Yahtzee is trying to say when he complains about the brood factor is that he doesn't think those games have done it right. He said that the main character of Shadow of Mordor was completely generic, hence why should he care when he's delving into a tone that is at this point a massive cliché. He didn't like the main characters of The Last of Us, either.

He has liked unbelievably grim video games such as Limbo, Amnesia, Spec Ops: The Line, Batman: Arkham Asylum and City, FarCry 3 (the rather depressing character building part) and Silent Hills 1, 2, 3, 4, Shattered Memories and Downpour.
Very well, but as important as original writing is execution and Shadow of Mordor really leaned into the whole dead family thing. Except the ending, that entire game shows how exhausted Talion was and how he just wanted to die and meet his family again in Tolkein heaven.

And I really can't forgive such a negative review of the Last of Us, purely because it told an unhappy story via cutscenes. I mean, it's basically the best video game story of it's kind and he shat all over it for being sad, like real life is such a fucking joyride.
In order for the dead family bit to hold any sort of emotional weight to it you had to actually give a damn about either the family or Talion. The game killed off the family as soon as it was introduced and Talion never does anythin remotely worth giving a damn about. The game told us how sad and depressed he was and how we should feel sorry for him, but it never gives us a reason to outside of the fact that somethin bad happened to him.

You make a person care about a character by making us care about the character. You don't make use care about a character simply because you tell us to care about them.
Well, I would consider the motion capture acting 'anythin', as it conveyed Talion's feelings quite well. That and the world building you so obviously ignored paints Mordor as a bleak place where human slaves are forced to do manual labor, such as farming in Nurnen, and quite frequently tortured and killed. Not giving developers credit for world building where credit is due only incentives their not caring at all in the next game, because no one noticed anyway.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Caramel Frappe said:
.. Sorry if I sound dumb but- I cannot tell if Yahtzee liked Bayonetta 2 or not.
Mixed. He liked the first game but calls the second a "bad sequel" for copy-pasting levels not doing anything very new. You might say he's OK with it but overall disappointed. Rank 5 in his GOTY list, tops.

He seemed more critical of the Wii U itself: 1) 30 minute updates and 2) awkward controller.
I chalk that up to his bias showing again. 1) Doesn't apply to pretty much every console currently out now? Or even the ones from last gen? I recall having to wait for every PS3 game I bought having to download before I could play it. And 2) I'm pretty sure the game's compatible with the Pro Controller.

See this is why I'm quick to throw the "bias" card down whenever Yahtzee complains about Nintendo. These complaints are trivial, even for him, and can be easily solved but instead he chooses to complain about them and pad out the review.
 

Guffe

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I really like the first and second one, both. Sure they are similar, but the second one really advanced on the first one I think.
The story was good, a bit weird at times, but it was Bayonetta so what was I expectin? And then after the story there are the Which Trials... THEY ARE DIFFICULT AS HELL!!!!

I would've liked Yhatzee to say something about the costumes, my mates think I'm crazy when I run around in a "slightly altered" Princess Peach costume :D
 

Fappy

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OverHaze said:
Hate to be a pedant but she doesn't say fuck off during combos, she says "flock off". As in "flock off feather face!". Which is a reference to the first game, which was a reference to Devil May Cry...
To be fair she's not the only Nintendo character who sounds like they're saying fuck off. In Super Mario 3D World I swear Rosalina is shouting "fuck off" in a cheerful way when she long jumps.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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LordTerminal said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Caramel Frappe said:
.. Sorry if I sound dumb but- I cannot tell if Yahtzee liked Bayonetta 2 or not.
Mixed. He liked the first game but calls the second a "bad sequel" for copy-pasting levels not doing anything very new. You might say he's OK with it but overall disappointed. Rank 5 in his GOTY list, tops.

He seemed more critical of the Wii U itself: 1) 30 minute updates and 2) awkward controller.
I chalk that up to his bias showing again. 1) Doesn't apply to pretty much every console currently out now? Or even the ones from last gen?
Don't know about current gen but this never happened to me on the PS3.
 

KazeAizen

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geizr said:
People who are capable of enjoying themselves: yes, this is a grotesquely underserved and underrepresented demographic in just about everything. You don't hear much from this demographic on the web because the people belonging to this demographic are too busy enjoying themselves with what they have rather than needing to launch into endless crusades against everyone else who does not agree with them (or buy the same electronics, or play the same games, or have the same personal preferences, or...). There really does need to be more games designed for people who are capable of enjoying themselves, because I think this is a vast market of critically untapped revenue potential for developers and publishers.

More OT: Now I really have to go back and give Bayonetta 1 a second chance. I stopped playing it long ago because the loads and pauses between missions were severely flow-breaking, which felt really jarring to me in a game that was otherwise so freely fluidic.
Did you have the PS3 version of the game?
 

Darren716

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I don't understand why if Yahtzee is going to complain about the game pad in each Wii-U review he does why he doesn't just use the pro controller, it's supported with most games and that way he won't have to bring up a hardware issue each time he reviews a game for the system.
 

KazeAizen

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geizr said:
KazeAizen said:
Did you have the PS3 version of the game?
Yes. Yes, I did, and still do. Have you played all the way through it?
Yes. Here's the thing. The PS3 version was the "bad" version of the game to get for exactly the reasons you listed. Loading times for every single freaking thing you do. I had heard they managed to fix it at some point but I'm not sure. The 360 version did not have this problem. It was one of those few multi platform titles where one version was clearly better than the other one and sadly it looks like you drew the short stick. :(
 

geizr

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KazeAizen said:
geizr said:
KazeAizen said:
Did you have the PS3 version of the game?
Yes. Yes, I did, and still do. Have you played all the way through it?
Yes. Here's the thing. The PS3 version was the "bad" version of the game to get for exactly the reasons you listed. Loading times for every single freaking thing you do. I had heard they managed to fix it at some point but I'm not sure. The 360 version did not have this problem. It was one of those few multi platform titles where one version was clearly better than the other one and sadly it looks like you drew the short stick. :(
Ah, that would certainly explain it. I very much remember that when I was in the game and playing, it was quite an adrenaline rush, which was phenomenal. But, then, I'd hit the mission loads that would take forever, and the rush would decay.

There needs to be some kind of scientific study in adrenaline rush decay times for frenetic action games. Basically, the developer needs to ensure that load times and pauses are not longer than the characteristic adrenaline rush decay time, except at key moments that are intended to give the gamer's nerves a break to avoid total burnout and fatigue. In this manner, the pacing of frenetic games can be better tuned and controlled. This would probably be particularly key for frenetic games with relatively long session play times, e.g. greater than 3 hours. Just a thought.
 

KazeAizen

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geizr said:
KazeAizen said:
geizr said:
KazeAizen said:
Did you have the PS3 version of the game?
Yes. Yes, I did, and still do. Have you played all the way through it?
Yes. Here's the thing. The PS3 version was the "bad" version of the game to get for exactly the reasons you listed. Loading times for every single freaking thing you do. I had heard they managed to fix it at some point but I'm not sure. The 360 version did not have this problem. It was one of those few multi platform titles where one version was clearly better than the other one and sadly it looks like you drew the short stick. :(
Ah, that would certainly explain it. I very much remember that when I was in the game and playing, it was quite an adrenaline rush, which was phenomenal. But, then, I'd hit the mission loads that would take forever, and the rush would decay.

There needs to be some kind of scientific study in adrenaline rush decay times for frenetic action games. Basically, the developer needs to ensure that load times and pauses are not longer than the characteristic adrenaline rush decay time, except at key moments that are intended to give the gamer's nerves a break to avoid total burnout and fatigue. In this manner, the pacing of frenetic games can be better tuned and controlled. This would probably be particularly key for frenetic games with relatively long session play times, e.g. greater than 3 hours. Just a thought.
Sounds like a solid investment for companies that would have that much money to spend. Still if you do have the Wii U and can get the game do give the original another chance. When I learned about the PS3 loading problems I just couldn't believe it because I knew people were going to be turned off because of that.
 

LenticularHomicide

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Haru17 said:
And I really can't forgive such a negative review of the Last of Us, purely because it told an unhappy story via cutscenes.
Hang on, he didn't hate The Last Of Us. And his review didn't mention cutscenes even once.

He did, however, hate Joel and Ellie, because they were goddamn sociopaths who would gladly fuck over the entire world just so that they could have their own selfish "happy ending". (Yeah, great, have your surrogate father-daughter bonding, no worries that you've just killed everyone who was looking for a cure to the Infected. Christ, even Booker DeWitt had the decency to kill himself in order to set things right.)

From his review:
I guess the story is the selling point, but while it is well-presented, it's also fairly predictable [...] Naughty Dog games have a bad habit of dehumanizing every character except the leads for no particular reasons besides "fuck you, got mine." [...] by the end, Joel and Ellie have both done things that make even the murdering seem like a single skid mark on a sewage outflow pipe, and I just stopped sympathizing.
 

Mangue Surfer

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So, I'm a Nintendo fan boy and don't feel offended by this Zero Punctuation. It's... weird. Like I'm just entering in some parallel universe.
 

DaViller

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Evonisia said:
That swearing business is off, admittedly, especially in cutscenes as I don't remember Bayonetta ever swearing in the first game.
Dude don't fuck with a witch.
 

TallCat

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OverHaze said:
Hate to be a pedant but she doesn't say fuck off during combos, she says "flock off". As in "flock off feather face!". Which is a reference to the first game, which was a reference to Devil May Cry...
This is true. She says "flock".
 

Toblo1

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Mangue Surfer said:
So, I'm a Nintendo fan boy and don't feel offended by this Zero Punctuation. It's... weird. Like I'm just entering in some parallel universe.
I'm as surprised as you are with this week's vid. He was surprisingly gentle with the Nintendo bashing (Compared to the shit-fest that he threw at Nintendo and the LoZ fandom during his Hyrule Warriors vid) this time around.