Zero Punctuation: BioShock

[ZippyDSMlee]

Its pretty much Deus ex 2 all over again(or ark faltalis 2 turned mainstream game with tits dark messiah), however this game has more polish its still a kick in the balls for any long time FPS/PC gamer.

I can't really agree here. Deus Ex had a lot of customization, and you actually had to make choices for what you were going to be good at. Bioshock lets you be good at pretty much everything, with very little difficulty in changing that around.

And seriously, the old pipe game for 'hacking'? That's just lame.

As for the respawn issue - that's one of the easiest things you can correct yourself. Just don't use it. Autosave + Quicksave, and go to those if you die.

I'm not terribly far into the game, but it seems quite well done from what I've played so far. My only major disappointment is the paucity of enemy variety, and their lack of tactics.

**

Yahtzee, another fantabulous review. Your reviews are what brought me to this site, and are definitely the primary reason I'll stick around

Do try and play dues ex 1 and tell me DX2 is great...the moding is unbalanced,the levels are tiny in comparison, in order to see the 4 endings you have to take different paths AT THE END LEVEL, not to mention all the options Dx1 had in hud colors and other options.

what dose Dx2 do better? story maybe,gameplay maybe,level design no,weapon design no,W mods no, Biomods no, the simplification of it created balancing issues that also robed depth from the gameplay over all Dx2 is a fair game but by all means not better than the first.

Bioshock suffers from the same issues a lack of options and depth in gameplay however its saving grace is its story and setting,its gameplay is watered down pablum we have seen already and done better.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Bioshock isn't a kick in the balls by any stretch of the imagination. It's a loved up gift wrapped work of genius.

So you have played all the old greats and understand that its basically ripping off a bunch of old games that its gameplay is limp and weak and lacks potential, its kind of sad to say Dark messiah as bad as it was, was a much greater game in trems of depth of gameplay.

Bioshock only really has story and setting goign for it, at least it retains something being aimed at causal horde of zombie gamers...

 

[Chinster]

Not everyone one thought Deus Ex was the be all and end all of games. I've played pretty much every great game released since 1981, bar a few lean years around the time of the Amiga. I couldn't care less about the terms casual or hardcore gamer, they mean nothing to me. Bioshock, like every other game out there will be loved by some and not by others, it has nothing to do with labels and more to do with the fact that we are all different, with differing tastes and opinions.

Bioshock is far from the greatest game ever, and at 7 hours in I'd probably rate it an 8/10 so far. Calling the gameplay limp and weak doesn't gel with my experience of the game at all, and I have played quite a few limp and weak games in my time, in fact far too many this past few years which is why Bioshock is quite welcome about now.

 

[Lothar Hex]

Let me put it you like this,they take your favorite simi smart and witty TV show and then for the next season they change the focus of the demographic and gut the show in order to sale it in a new market, this is what has happened to Doom,Dues ex and Bioshock, they focsed the product to run on a downgraded system or for more causal gameing this damages the games potential in many many ways.

It can also be considered like localized Anime in the states that take a show them dumb the translation down in order to sell it to the largest market possible.
(nothing like taking a charatcer that dose not cuss unless he is ripe mad and having him cuss every other word in english *shudders*)

Anyway our(old gamer farts) point is they should make the game as best they can and then water it down via options (many many stupid game features can be made into something that can be toggled on and off at the menu, like real FPS aiming for a metroid game) or I dunno a real inventory system for bioshock were you can keep and sort things and if you don't want to fool with it leave it on auto a causal gamer wont bother changing it they don't care if the game could be better they just want something to play for a day or 2 and move on to the next one.

And if you can't tell the most mindless sheeple of casual gamers are on consoles in order to limit dev time and not offend the twitch gamers that loath RPG or thinking games they have to make simple games because thats there target audience.

It would be nice if I saw a game that gave you lots of options so you can control not only your controls but the "weakness" of the gameplay, in the past 8 years console games (FPSs) have gotten away from letting you have button mapping as a option MS should get over itself and make the 360 support a KB and mouse they cry foul over it saying it will make the pad elitists feel uncomfortable or something...even the WII laughs at you,when it comes to customized controls for fear they will lose revenue for people using the the WII stuff on N64 games.... casual gaming is killing us at one time had some control over the fun now you are limited in how you play it and how you cheat on it....I can,t wait till sonys first cries of foul over a cheat device and Nintendo is secretly making them non functional for the WII

yes I wear my tinfoil hat tightly but I swear while games advance in graphics and physics gameplay is on life support,user control customization is dead only to have the occasional game toss you some dirt, cheat devices are the new evil devs and the console makers will protect their IP/CP from I mean gaming is just like it use to be it was fun now its all a bunch of saggy old tits....well mostly....some of it is passable...but how many hundreds have we spent for a passable game or 2....... *sigh*

You still haven't really answered my question, though have attempted it in good manner. I just don't see why putting a game on a console inherently makes it "dumbed down." I mainly play on consoles and do not consider myself a "casual gamer."

Personally I think it's down to developer laziness. Let's look at Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (1, not 2, which was gutted and not made by Bioware). It had everything, great characters, great storyline, an inventory system that worked well, character custimisation and everything, and indeed you COULD automate the way your character developed. I mainly looked through my character stats and did it that way rather than the automation, but it was nice to have the option...and yet because it was released on Xbox rather than PC, I get the feeling a lot of people here would claim it was "dumbed down."

I also played Psychonauts on the Xbox when it originally came out, and wholeheatedley agree with Yahtzee's views on it, yet I get the feeling because I like Halo (thought #2's singleplayer wasn't a patch on #1, great multiplayer with friends though, not the random screaming kids), a lot of people in this topic would think I wouldn't like Bioshock, Sam and Max Season One, or Psychonauts. That said, I can't stand JRPG's because they're all the bloody same. Or WoW, because it bores me out of mind.

Just an observation.

 

[Nanolathe]

I agree with Yahtzee on every single point... apart from his apparent affection for STALKER. That game was the most Hyped game I ever got interested in... what we got was utter and complete Shite (In my opinion). Here's hoping that he gives us the negative spin on STALKER. It's not a bad game... but it is not what was promised.

Loved your Psychonauts review by the way Yahtzee. Don't listen to the mindless masses, If a game is as good as Pshconauts was, please, feel free to have a verbal orgasm over it for a review! Don't give in to peer pressure... now do as I say!

 

[Ian Dorsch]

I agree with Yahtzee on every single point

Do you also agree with the bit at the beginning where he calls it 'resoundingly a masterpiece' and 'one of the best games of the year?' Just curious. Everyone seems to have overlooked that first 20 seconds in favor of the 3:40 of humorous nitpicking.

P.S. I liked the Psychonauts review too.

 

[Chinster]

Well Yahtzee is at his best when he's moaning but it's obvious he loves the game really

 

[jabrwock]

I just don't see why putting a game on a console inherently makes it "dumbed down." I mainly play on consoles and do not consider myself a "casual gamer."

Personally I think it's down to developer laziness.

That, and a reduced control set. Why bother having tons of interface options if you've got a much reduced control set to work with. Although honestly, when you think 'hard core' gamer, you think of a souped up PC, not an Xbox. So while there might be some non-casual gamers on the consoles, the majority ARE casual gamers.

Casual gamer on the PC usually conjures up images of card games, not Bioshock.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Although honestly, when you think 'hard core' gamer, you think of a souped up PC, not an Xbox. So while there might be some non-casual gamers on the consoles, the majority ARE casual gamers.

Casual gamer on the PC usually conjures up images of card games, not Bioshock.

Maybe when you think 'hard core' gamer, you think of a souped up PC, not an Xbox. Personally, I qualify a person's place on the scale between 'hard core' and 'casual' with the amount of energy they put into gaming, not how much money they spend on it, or their preferred platform.

Agreed: The majority of console gamers ARE casual gamers.

NEWS FLASH: The majority of gamers ARE casual gamers. Platform independent. PC, Mac, Xbox, Wii, cellphone, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

All I'm trying to point out is that console gamers are not inherently casual gamers. Therefore, all this hooha about Bioshock being made too easy because it was developed with both a PC and a console in mind, is based on poor assumptions. <a href=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot>Bigotted, PC-<a href=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elitist>elitist BS assumptions.

Blame the developers for making it too easy, (which is easier to adjust than with a game which is too hard, as mentioned in this thread already: play with nothing but a wrench if you want), but don't accuse a little-girl-killing-simulator of being targeted at a casual audience.

 

[Lothar Hex]

Thank you for making my point far better than I did.

 

[Nanolathe]

one of the best games of the year

Now that is the really sad thing... it is going to be one of the best games of the year... That is not really a compliment...

It sucks less that the other games released this year... big deal.

I'll go play Psychonauts again rather than play through this mess one more time.

Yes it's obvious that he likes the game... but I bet it's nowhere close to his top ten... or even his top 50. I'd bet many hard Great British Pounds that Psychonauts is higher on the list.

 

[UnaidedCoder]

Hey guys, go ***** about minute details somehwere else. That's a 50 post tumor you guys managed to form.

The video is awesome. Love how ya highlighted the "don't like me when i'm nice" thing, since that seems to be an issue for all comedy themed journalists.

 

[DeusExMathias]

I - *sniff* I... love you, Yahtzee! There, I said it!
Your videos are awesome!

~Deus

 

[Kadayi]

There has been so much hype about Bioshock that I've stayed away from it because I suspected it wasn't remotely as shiny as everyone purports (though it is on my to be purchased list). From what I've seen, I understand where Yatzee is coming from in how the game is System Shock 2 in better clothes, but with less substance in order to meet the needs of the Console (IE Keep it really simple Stupid). Rather than a game where you have to actively consider things like what equipment you take and what you drop (Stalker, Deus Ex, System Shock 2) and subsequently tailor your play style based upon those decisions.

 

[Zippy Fonz [deprecated]]

Choice eh? reminds me of yhatzee reveiw on fable lost chapters.

 

[Ian Dorsch]

This thread is getting pretty emo. Is this what you wanted, Yahtzee? IS IT?!?!?

 

[LxDarko]

Where does Jack keep all that stuff? Has anyone else taken a moment to think about that too. About eight different weapons, ammo for each weapon, crafting ingredients, first aid kits, eve hypos where does he put it all?

It's no wonder he instantly eats all food items he has no where to keep them on his person. Now that I think more about it I wonder if they original meant for those pneumatic tubes to be your inventory but nixed the idea during development. Those tubes are every where but you almost never used them makes no sense what so ever for them to even be everywhere in the game really.

And as to the console dumbing it is true. Just look at that whole widescreen blow up with BioShock if you don't see it. All of which could have be prevent with an slider in the option screen. Also I would have really liked assign my own controls for BioShock.

My layout would've been something like this:

Dpad as hot keys for quick plasmid or weapon change,

X button to reload/Hold X button for ammo change (with an option in the menus to auto reload next time of ammo after current type is depleted),

Y button for health kits,

A button jump,

B Button interact,

The rest would be kept same. If I could do that it would make BioShock far less boring combat wise for me, but I guess the devs and Qa team came up with the best layout for all us casual console players.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Also, was that 6.0 a point score from you for Bioshock?

I'm pretty sure it was his way of saying that the kick in the nuts was done well.
i.e. the game is good but has issues. Not an actual score for the game.

For those that don't know, 6.0 used to be a perfect score for a figure skating routine.

Ya even to my jaded cold gamer heart,the 6.0 was the kick to the nuts, the game itself ranges from 7 to 8.

And befor anyone starts in 5.0 is average, 6 above average 7 good 8 great 9..well..they don't make 9s anymore.... and if you see a 9+...run....RRUUUNNNNN!!!!!

 

[the_pearson_person]

Zero Punctuation Appreciation Society group on Facebook!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6725770567

 

[mrkite]

I liked System Shock 2 a lot.. but don't forget that even SS2 was pretty braindead in places. A completely empty room was all of a sudden crawling with enemies when the alarms go off. That makes as much sense as boiling water having allegiances.